Air Force aims at space-based weaponry

[Black Dog]

Air Force Seeks Bush's Approval for Space Weapons Programs

The Air Force, saying it must secure space to protect the nation from attack, is seeking President Bush's approval of a national-security directive that could move the United States closer to fielding offensive and defensive space weapons, according to White House and Air Force officials.

The proposed change would be a substantial shift in American policy. It would almost certainly be opposed by many American allies and potential enemies, who have said it may create an arms race in space.

The Air Force believes "we must establish and maintain space superiority," Gen. Lance Lord, who leads the Air Force Space Command, told Congress recently. "Simply put, it's the American way of fighting." Air Force doctrine defines space superiority as "freedom to attack as well as freedom from attack" in space.

Putting aside the usual quaetions about praciticality, arms races, aggression and such, I wonder if these people ever stop and think about how they are going to pay for these gadgets.

The U.S. is already on the verge of spending as much on "defence" as the rest of the world combined.. At the same time, the U.S. is rushing towards a financial crisis precipitated by record deficits, massive foriegn debt, colossal spending and shrinking revenues. And yet, we see, not calls for restraint, but more extravagant spending on new weapons systems and military adventures.

What's going on?

[GostHacked]

Hey, I am new around here so take it easy on my grammer and spelling, sometimes my thoughts come out a bit random.

But, but.... but this is not Star Wars. Well, yes it is, and I do wonder how the hell all that new technology will be paid for. This most likely has been in the works since the Reagan administration. They may have already had allot of funding for these new space weapons. For the fact there is no reason a toilet seat costs a few thousand dollars, or a $500 hammer.

Over 400 billion spent on the war on Terrorism, 80 billion emergency funding, minus the cost of 50 billion (over the next 20 years) to close bases, and I would guess 100 million to clean up the other bases they already closed.

The spending is way out of control. The only way that is will stop is if someone takes out this administration. I just wish the rest of the world had some balls to say NO to the US.

[Technocrat]

another example of how americas biggest obsticle to peace and security is their own military. This is way out of control. Another reason why we NEED the UN.

[Army Guy]

I'm just curious but say NO to the US for what spending on thier military machine or taking down dictators like Sadam...

And what is it exactly we need the UN for ....debating world problems...watching as 100's of thousands die....what can the UN do that say NATO can't do better...or for that matter the US goverment...

[Technocrat]

let me refrase that... we need a reformed UN that isn't subject to the whims of the a few world powers. The US has shown blatant disregard for international law & international treaties.

I think the US military has more then enough ways to kill a person as is. Last time i checked its pretty sick to harbour enough wmd's to destroy the world over several times, especially when your a 'freedom loving country'. If this continues it will further beleif that the US has no interest in world peace or prosperity, only their own.

[wodderwing]

I apologize if this message is off topic - I am trying to give a broad group

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[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Technocrat,

If this continues it will further beleif that the US has no interest in world peace or prosperity, only their own.

It really can't get much further. Also, it's true, and the US says it repeatedly in the media and through it's actions.

Last time i checked its pretty sick to harbour enough wmd's to destroy the world over several times, especially when your a 'freedom loving country'

The US must have it's security and it's 'peace loving ways' under constant threat, or they wouldn't be able to justify their gigantic military budget. It used to be the cold war, now it is 'terror'. I am sure more than a few CEOs in some of the major weapons suppliers said "Thank God for 9/11".

[Army Guy]

Technocrat:

I agree with you that the UN in it's present form is a toothless paper tiger.

That said do you really believe you can get those with veto power to let that go.

And to be fair the US is not the only country that has "blantantly disregarded international laws or treaties...i can think of a few more countries who fit that bill more than the US...

I think the US military has more then enough ways to kill a person as is. Last time i checked its pretty sick to harbour enough wmd's to destroy the world over several times, especially when your a 'freedom loving country'.

My question to you, is who is going to ensure that the worlds problems don't overflow on to our shores. Who's is going to keep China, Russia and the many others in check. The freedom we enjoy in Canada today is mostly due to the fact that we are next door niebours with the US...and that we fall under thier security umbrella. And as good niebours we can only bitch and complain on the way they do it ...when we as a nation don't even want to look after our own borders.

[Black Dog]

I'm just curious but say NO to the US for what spending on thier military machine or taking down dictators like Sadam...

You gota wonder why, in a country where millions can't even afford basic health care, it is okay to spend more than the rest of the world combined on the military. Does that make sense to you?

And what is it exactly we need the UN for ....debating world problems...watching as 100's of thousands die....what can the UN do that say NATO can't do better...or for that matter the US goverment...

The U.S. government has stood idly by during its share of death. caused a fair bit themselves, too.

[Technocrat]

The freedom we enjoy in Canada today is mostly due to the fact that we are next door niebours with the US...and that we fall under thier security umbrella. And as good niebours we can only bitch and complain on the way they do it ...when we as a nation don't even want to look after our own borders.

Maybe if some people could get out of this 'need to check others power' mindset we wouldn't need to spend billions of dollars on machines built with the sole purpuse to bring death and misery to fellow humans. Perhaps spending some of that money on bringing a few billion people clean water would help provide better long term security then a satilite that can blow up a pickup truck from 20 miles up.

[PatM]

If you want to know the policy behind this space initiative, read "Rebuilding America's Defenses, Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century" at the

Project for a New American Century Website.

Project for a New American Century is Cheney & gang's think tank and contains many of this Administration's policies. The "Rebuilding America's Defenses" document was adopted in its entirety as the defense policy for the Bush Administration.

Some examples of what they intend for space (And the internet for that matter)

"CONTROL THE NEW “INTERNATIONAL COMMONS” OF SPACE AND “CYBERSPACE,” and pave the way for the creation of a new military service – U.S. Space Forces – with the mission of space control."

"Indeed, as will be discussed below, space dominance may become so essential to the preservation of American military preeminence that it may require a separate service. How well the Air Force rises to the many challenges it faces – even should it receive increased budgets – will go far toward determining whether U.S. military forces retain the combat edge they now enjoy."

Note the total lack of any mention of cooperation with other countries. Domination is what they want and they specifically say so.

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

The US is the worlds largest consumer of resources on the planet and to maintain access to those resources the US goverment has deemed it needs a large military .Does it make sense to me yes and no...there whole being depends on those resources...more than thier concern for health care....but it is there chose right...

The U.S. government has stood idly by during its share of death. caused a fair bit themselves, too.

Yes , but before we get out the big foam fingers Canada has sat idly by and watched more than once....

Technocrat:

Maybe if some people could get out of this 'need to check others power' mindset we wouldn't need to spend billions of dollars on machines built with the sole purpuse to bring death and misery to fellow humans. Perhaps spending some of that money on bringing a few billion people clean water would help provide better long term security then a satilite that can blow up a pickup truck from 20 miles up.

I would gladly give up my job as a soldier if you could convince the rest of the world to do the same...but that is not going to happen in our time and Man will always be at war...Until then it pays to be prepared..

[GostHacked]

I agree with you that the UN in it's present form is a toothless paper tiger.

That said do you really believe you can get those with veto power to let that go.

And to be fair the US is not the only country that has "blantantly disregarded international laws or treaties...

Ok granted the UN needs some revamping, but should not have the US try to change it to what they want. And other countries have disregarded the UN in cases, but to this date, the US is one of the only countries that does not recognize the World Court and other world bodies like the WTO... They seem to have the mentality of being 'above the law'.

My question to you, is who is going to ensure that the worlds problems don't overflow on to our shores. Who's is going to keep China, Russia and the many others in check.

Why do they need to be kept in check? Russian is no real threat anymore. The Soviet Union collapsed back in the late 80's. And China is just starting to grow as a nation. And I have not heard of any threats by China to take over the world. The only beef they have is with Taiwan, and this has allot of history behind it. I do not feel a threat from China. Chances of them invading Canada? Zero%. Chances of them invading if the US pisses them off, that increases dramatically.

[Guest eureka]

Is that not a rather extraordinary statement that the US needs to maintain a large military to maintain access to (other nation's) resources.

Where do they get the right to use force to take from others?

[Army Guy]

Gosthacked:

Ok granted the UN needs some revamping, but should not have the US try to change it to what they want. And other countries have disregarded the UN in cases, but to this date, the US is one of the only countries that does not recognize the World Court and other world bodies like the WTO... They seem to have the mentality of being 'above the law'.

Some revamping, try a major overhaul...And no i agree with you no one country should have it's way ...the UN should be a world forum that "ALL" countries have an equal say and vote ...and the veto should be removed...As for the the US being the only country to disagree with the world court BS,russia and China have done so also ...The US has disagree with certain aspects of the worlds court decissions but not the entire system...those areas it has disagreed has been in regards to protecting it's soldiers....

Why do they need to be kept in check? Russian is no real threat anymore. The Soviet Union collapsed back in the late 80's.

Sure if you think having more than 2 million under arms is no threat...and yes most of the USSR has collasped but they are more than capable of causing a threat in many areas of operation.

And I have not heard of any threats by China to take over the world. The only beef they have is with Taiwan, and this has allot of history behind it.

Chinas military is growing in leaps and bounds faster than any other armed force in the world...Taiwan area is not only a threat to the US but to japan as well not to mention that the people of taiwan do not want to be under Chinas rule...

Chances of them invading Canada? Zero%. Chances of them invading if the US pisses them off, that increases dramatically.

Give me a break, China has no grand scheme to attack the US or Canada with ground forces they will attack by missle but are very aware of Mutual destruction.

[Army Guy]

eureka:

Is that not a rather extraordinary statement that the US needs to maintain a large military to maintain access to (other nation's) resources.

No, the US depends on those resources as a nation...what it needs is to protect it's logistical tail to get those resources into the US....It also needs to protect those nations that provide those resources...IE kuwait...The US pays top dollar for those resouces i don't hear any other nation complaining come pay day...

Where do they get the right to use force to take from others?

What resources have they taken by use of force...

[PatM]

My lord, if you don't hear any nation complaining come payday then you must have earplugs in.

Check out South and Central America and many countries in the middle east. Many people there are compaining about the outright theft of resources and murder of civilians done by and in the name of the USA.

The resolution that every member nation of the OAS has the right to resist occupation by a foreign invader was pointed right at the USA.

[Army Guy]

PatM:

Check out South and Central America and many countries in the middle east. Many people there are compaining about the outright theft of resources and murder of civilians done by and in the name of the USA.

BS...the US pays them well for the resources and has made many countries very well off with these sales. I have not heard of any invasion for the purpose of stealing thier resources....

The resolution that every member nation of the OAS has the right to resist occupation by a foreign invader was pointed right at the USA.

Again what invasion...

[PatM]

Obviously, you haven't been paying attention.

[GostHacked]

Some revamping, try a major overhaul...And no i agree with you no one country should have it's way ...the UN should be a world forum that "ALL" countries have an equal say and vote ...and the veto should be removed...As for the the US being the only country to disagree with the world court BS,russia and China have done so also ...The US has disagree with certain aspects of the worlds court decissions but not the entire system...those areas it has disagreed has been in regards to protecting it's soldiers....

Well, for one, the US troops should be under the rule that everyone else is. They cannot be granted immunity from their actions (or leaders actions). But this is how they want and do operate. Nothing can touch the US troops.

Sure if you think having more than 2 million under arms is no threat...and yes most of the USSR has collasped but they are more than capable of causing a threat in many areas of operation.

Look, the threats from Russia are nothing to worry about. I think all that stuff is just localized. That wont spill over to North America. Break away states that are still in turmoil and have local problems to deal with.

And I have not heard of any threats by China to take over the world. The only beef they have is with Taiwan, and this has allot of history behind it. Chinas military is growing in leaps and bounds faster than any other armed force in the world...Taiwan area is not only a threat to the US but to japan as well not to mention that the people of taiwan do not want to be under Chinas rule...

Give me a break, China has no grand scheme to attack the US or Canada with ground forces they will attack by missle but are very aware of Mutual destruction.

So why even mention China if they are no threat to the US, or the world.

Getting back to it all. There is still no need for Space Based weapons. Once the US gets that done, then I can see China ramping up on that as well. The only other countries that would be capable of funding any of these space based weapons are the US, China, Japan, and maybe France (perhaps the whole EU.)

Less proliferation and more demolition of the weapon stockpiles will make us all safer. More weapons, means more counter weapons, means more counter counter weapons. Ect.

[Army Guy]

Gosthacked:

Well, for one, the US troops should be under the rule that everyone else is. They cannot be granted immunity from their actions (or leaders actions). But this is how they want and do operate. Nothing can touch the US troops.

Providing the bulk of the troops and equipment for most crisses within the world has it's advantages this is one of them. US troops are not provided immunity instead they are proscuted in the US by the US military court system. they want to prevent thier soldiers for rotting in foreign prisons...Most the other nations do the same only the evac thier guilty persons back to the host nation to be charged there. same thing only the US has refused to sign onto that portion of the agreement.

Look, the threats from Russia are nothing to worry about. I think all that stuff is just localized. That wont spill over to North America. Break away states that are still in turmoil and have local problems to deal with.

I don't want to sound like an alarmist, But Russia is still very much a threat to Europe and Asia...2 million plus men under arms may not sound much to you but that is ABOUT what is currently serving in the US military...

Thier threat is still the main concern of NATO...

Yes they are having a few problems with break away states and are trying note i said trying to keep it localized...however i quit confident that if they were to ramp-up and deal with it as the old Soviet union use to those rebellions would be put down in weeks.

So why even mention China if they are no threat to the US, or the world.

I said China would not likely attack North America...Taiwan or other interests in asia is a different story....And the US is tied to protecting Taiwan or Japan which will draw in other nations i'm sure, and in that area the US will have it's hands full...

Getting back to it all. There is still no need for Space Based weapons. Once the US gets that done, then I can see China ramping up on that as well. The only other countries that would be capable of funding any of these space based weapons are the US, China, Japan, and maybe France (perhaps the whole EU.)

As long as tech is growing in leaps and bounds and mankinds need to destroy each other there will always be an arms race...Space has already had wpns placed in it, along with 100's of military sat's..even Canada has military sats in space...

The race for spaced based wpns is further ahead than you may think...with most modern countries developing more and more military systems designed for space...

As more and more countries depend on space based intelligence systems ,global GPS sats, comunication sats, etc. etc. to regain the advantage on the ground, air, and sea,you must deny these sytems to your enemy ... hence why the race has been ongoing for awhile...

Less proliferation and more demolition of the weapon stockpiles will make us all safer. More weapons, means more counter weapons, means more counter counter weapons. Ect.

I could not agree with you more...but man has been in an arms race since the caveman and i don't see it ending here on anytime soon...