Alberta Budget

[Black Dog]

In the balance between government spending on services and low taxes for citizens, the Klein government has managed to incorporate the worst of both in this year's budget.

Canada's oil emirate receives more revenues than any other provincial, yet Albertans pay the highest provincial taxes in Canada. Despite the incredible wealth Albertans continue to be saddled with regressive taxes such as the health care preimiums and flat tax.

What do we get for our money? Well, Alberta also comes in dead last in nearly every indicator of social progress such as food bank usage, homelessness, class sizes and child care. Infrastructure got a bit of a boost, but health care and education saw little help.

Some places where the Tories did step up? A $45 million subsidy to the horse racing industry and the continuation of oil and gas royalty tax credits that suck $93 million a year out of Alberta's economy.

Somehow, the Alberta Tories have managed to piss off both fiscal hawks and socialists with their wild, directionless spending hikes that do little to improve the lot of Albertans.

When will people in this province wake up and focus on the government that has been robbing them blind for decades instead of chasing the bugbear of "western alienation"?

[I Miss Trudeau]

When will people in this province wake up and focus on the government that has been robbing them blind for decades instead of chasing the bugbear of "western alienation"?

Right after Klein summons Gomery out west to conduct inquiries into Air Ralph, Gary Mar's untendered contracts (which involved no work!), and a host of other scandals.

So, in response to your question, sometime on the other side of never.

[I miss Reagan]

Yes, Conservatives in name only. They're drunk on power. So we should be able to agree that the Canadian system of government is seriously flawed. Agreed?

[Guest eureka]

Every system of government is seriously flawed. The problem with that is that the fixes may well be more damaging to governance than the problems. The economic system of the US would collapse if the fraud were taken out of politics. That could be fixed but the dislocation might be the cause of a depression until it worked through.

[Black Dog]

Yes, Conservatives in name only. They're drunk on power. So we should be able to agree that the Canadian system of government is seriously flawed. Agreed?

Agreed, but that wasn't the question. The question is why do Albertans let them get way with it?

[I miss Reagan]

Yes, Conservatives in name only. They're drunk on power. So we should be able to agree that the Canadian system of government is seriously flawed. Agreed?

Agreed, but that wasn't the question. The question is why do Albertans let them get way with it?

I don't know, it's a great question. Canadians don't want to do any further damage perhaps. The word "Liberal" has a very bad conotation here so people won't vote for a party by that name. The Alberta Alliance probably seems to extreme. I think they're just blinded by the word "Conservative" and believe that's what they're getting. Why do Canadians continue to support the federal Liberals? It's a culture of wussies. We refuse to stand up for what's right.

[fellowtraveller]

In the balance between government spending on services and low taxes for citizens, the Klein government has managed to incorporate the worst of both in this year's budget.

Canada's oil emirate receives more revenues than any other provincial, yet Albertans pay the highest provincial taxes in Canada. Despite the incredible wealth Albertans continue to be saddled with regressive taxes such as the health care preimiums and flat tax.

What do we get for our money? Well, Alberta also comes in dead last in nearly every indicator of social progress such as food bank usage, homelessness, class sizes and child care. Infrastructure got a bit of a boost, but health care and education saw little help.

Some places where the Tories did step up? A $45 million subsidy to the horse racing industry and the continuation of oil and gas royalty tax credits that suck $93 million a year out of Alberta's economy.

Somehow, the Alberta Tories have managed to piss off both fiscal hawks and socialists with their wild, directionless spending hikes that do little to improve the lot of Albertans.

When will people in this province wake up and focus on the government that has been robbing them blind for decades instead of chasing the bugbear of "western alienation"?

Golly this post is so factually wrong in so many ways, it's hard to know where to start....

The post could well be described as a pack of lies.

Alberta has the lowest taxes in Canada, closely followed by Ontario, until Ontario introduced health care premiums too. Wheteher it's out front or not, premiums are paid by everybody in every province for the same services. Add them all up, Albertans easily pay the least. Fact.

Those 'indicators ' are a joke.

The prime indicators of social progress are education and health spending, and both got massive, unprecedented boosts.

Alberta was already spending the most per capita for health care, now they will be well in front. It's yet to be seen whether this will result in improved quality of life or longer lifespans.

Education spending was in the middle of the pack, now it will be well above Canadian averages, especially in post secondary which just got a huge boost of cash for at least three years.

Note that when Alberta was in the middle of the provincial pack, they were easily tops in performance in Canada by internationally objective measures in recent surveys. It was no contest vs the other provinces in grades k-9. They finished second and seventh in the WORLD in two subjects. Not bad for a province vilfied by morons who cannot see the truth from behind the mask of ideological hatred. The kids know the truth.

[Pateris]

Agreed, but that wasn't the question. The question is why do Albertans let them get way with it?

The reason is that Albertans like Ralph a little too much and that there is NO credible alternative. The Liberals and NDP sound the same and most Albertans aren't socialists. The Alberta Alliance still is wingnutty and unknown. Most Albertans are Canadians and don't like the ideas of the Separation Party of Alberta.

So you see that is the problem. If the Alliance straightened out a bit and found a better leader, they could knock off the Conservatives and Ralph Klein.

[fellowtraveller]

The reason Albertans like Klein is that when first elected, he did pretty much exactly what he said he would do in the campaign.

It was such a novel approach, a politician saying and doing the same thing, that it through everybody off guard.

He's pretty much out of gas now (resource industry joke). But lo and behold, on the horizon is Mr. Jim Dinning, who will reign for ...well... as long as he likes.

[Black Dog]

Took me some time to get back to this...

Alberta has the lowest taxes in Canada, closely followed by Ontario, until Ontario introduced health care premiums too. Wheteher it's out front or not, premiums are paid by everybody in every province for the same services. Add them all up, Albertans easily pay the least. Fact.

Lowest? But who bears the burden? For instance, a family with an annual income of $15,000 pays the same premiums as a family making $100,000. It's a regressive tax (ditto Alberta's vaunted "flat tax").

The prime indicators of social progress are education and health spending, and both got massive, unprecedented boosts. Alberta was already spending the most per capita for health care, now they will be well in front. It's yet to be seen whether this will result in improved quality of life or longer lifespans.

Actually, Newfoundland is still spending the most per capita on health care. More importantly, however, health care spending as a percentage of GDP has barely budged in the last decade. In other words, the increased per capita spending barely keeps pace with economic growth.

Education spending was in the middle of the pack, now it will be well above Canadian averages, especially in post secondary which just got a huge boost of cash for at least three years.

Whoopty doo. That still doesn't come close to undoing or mitigating the damage cost by the Klein cuts. The funding added to date does not bring the levels back

up to the where they were prior to the cuts in the 1990s.

In the meantime, Alberta's post-secondary participation rate lags behind teh rest of the country, university tuition in Alberta has increased by 169.5% in real dollars since 1990-91 and college tuition in Alberta has jumped 290% over the same period. Alberta’s rate of tuition increase was the highest in the country.

The reason Albertans like Klein is that when first elected, he did pretty much exactly what he said he would do in the campaign.

It was such a novel approach, a politician saying and doing the same thing, that it through everybody off guard.

He's pretty much out of gas now (resource industry joke). But lo and behold, on the horizon is Mr. Jim Dinning, who will reign for ...well... as long as he likes.

It's funny: Albertans of th econservative stripe look down on the rest of the country for voting Liberal. "how can you support a crooked government that has marginalized the people and is only interested in power?" is the plaintive cry. Meanwhile at home, they continue to unflinchingly back a regime that has chopped services, abandoned communities and jealousy horded the wealth of the province even as they consoloidated their grip on all levels of political power and centralize authority in the provincial government. This leaves me to believe that PC supporters in Alberta are either patent idiots, gullible rubes, or obsequious wretches.

[geoffrey]

It's funny: Albertans of th econservative stripe look down on the rest of the country for voting Liberal. "how can you support a crooked government that has marginalized the people and is only interested in power?" is the plaintive cry. Meanwhile at home, they continue to unflinchingly back a regime that has chopped services, abandoned communities and jealousy horded the wealth of the province even as they consoloidated their grip on all levels of political power and centralize authority in the provincial government. This leaves me to believe that PC supporters in Alberta are either patent idiots, gullible rubes, or obsequious wretches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have made us all so much more money personally in the process. Why would we change things when we are the richest people in the country? The Klein government made this province the power it is today, and I think we'd all like to enjoy the kickbacks that our wise electoral decision has given us.

I know I wouldn't want to work anywhere else and pay huge amounts of taxes for the same idea. Not a chance.

[Black Dog]

And have made us all so much more money personally in the process. Why would we change things when we are the richest people in the country? The Klein government made this province the power it is today, and I think we'd all like to enjoy the kickbacks that our wise electoral decision has given us.

I know I wouldn't want to work anywhere else and pay huge amounts of taxes for the same idea. Not a chance.

Well tha t about sums up the whole "Who cares as long as I get mine?" attitude so prevelant in this province. You must be from Calgary.

As for the Klein government "making us what we are today", the qquestion should really be "why aren't we beer off?" why are our cities and towns facing crumbling infrastructure? Why is our health care system in tatters? Why are our classrooms swelling? Why is homelessness and hunger rampant? Why does the province that wails most about the country's democratic defecit remain a one-party state with no opposition and no electroral system of equitable representation?

I know folks like you have ahard time seeing beyond your own pocketbook, but I think these things matter.

[Guest eureka]

Do Albertans really pay lower taxes? A few months ago, I read something that said through health premiums and downloaded taxes, Albertans are not the in the tax haven they think.

I don't know where the piece was so I can't refer to it to get the details.

[fellowtraveller]

Well tha t about sums up the whole "Who cares as long as I get mine?" attitude so prevelant in this province. You must be from Calgary.

Or from Saskatchewan, Ontario, Nfld, Nova Scotia - all of whom have made recent deals with the federal government to enjoy some of that federal money.

Is it federal money, or is it distribution of equalization cash from... you guessed it... Alberta?

I guess those provinces got theirs too, eh? Did I forget anybody?

Why is our health care system in tatters?

Absolute, unqualified bullshit. Black Dog, care to name the #1 health care authority in Canada last year? I'll do it for you - Capital Health, located and around Edmonton. Do Albertans live shorter or grimmer lives than other Canadians? Of course not.

Want to know why Caadian health care is in disarray? Look no further than Ottawa.

[Guest eureka]

Health care is a provincial responsibility.

[fellowtraveller]

Health care is a provincial responsibility.

If only the Liberals comprehended that reality and gave the money back to where it came from - the taxpayers.

[Black Dog]

Is it federal money, or is it distribution of equalization cash from... you guessed it... Alberta?

I guess those provinces got theirs too, eh? Did I forget anybody?

Uh...buddy wasn't talking equalization. He wa s talking about how Albertans are getting a lot of money in their pockets because of Klein, which I think is a pretty narrow outlook.

Absolute, unqualified bullshit. Black Dog, care to name the #1 health care authority in Canada last year? I'll do it for you - Capital Health, located and around Edmonton. Do Albertans live shorter or grimmer lives than other Canadians? Of course not.

Want to know why Caadian health care is in disarray? Look no further than Ottawa.

You're tripping over yourself. On the one hand, you say everything is hunky dory in the Alberta health care system. Then on the other, the system is in "disarray". Which is it? You sound like the Tories, who go on about how great things are, but also harp on the urgent need for reform.

[RightWinger]

Took me some time to get back to this...

Alberta has the lowest taxes in Canada, closely followed by Ontario, until Ontario introduced health care premiums too. Wheteher it's out front or not, premiums are paid by everybody in every province for the same services. Add them all up, Albertans easily pay the least. Fact.

Lowest? But who bears the burden? For instance, a family with an annual income of $15,000 pays the same premiums as a family making $100,000. It's a regressive tax (ditto Alberta's vaunted "flat tax").

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually Blackdog, if a family makes lower than a set number(not sure what it is), they qualify for subsidies in the health care premiums. I am sure a family making $15,000/yr would hardly pay any premiums.

[Black Dog]

Actually Blackdog, if a family makes lower than a set number(not sure what it is), they qualify for subsidies in the health care premiums. I am sure a family making $15,000/yr would hardly pay any premiums.

Nope. Families with two or more people with a total annual income of $12,620 pay full premiums. Premiums are on a sliding scale for incomes below that.