Gomery Commission?

[Argus]

Anyone have any idea what this big earth-shattering revelation was today at the Gomery Commision? Due to the publication ban all the press is saying is that it was so incredible it could cause Paul Martin's government to fall.

[caesar]

well, I really not that concerned. It may bring on an election but as long as Harper is our only other possible choice; I would still have to vote Liberal. I think many of us who did vote Liberal did so mainly because we do not want Harper and his right winged ideas. Crooked politicians are unfortunately, a fact of life and come from ALL parties.

[Argus]

well, I really not that concerned. It may bring on an election but as long as Harper is our only other possible choice; I would still have to vote Liberal. I think many of us who did vote Liberal did so mainly because we do not want Harper and his right winged ideas. Crooked politicians are unfortunately, a fact of life and come from ALL parties.

Perhaps, but people willing to vote for crooked politicians out of ignorance, a twisted ideological hatred for others, and a lack of personal morality are responsible for them.

[Fortunata]

Perhaps, but people willing to vote for crooked politicians out of ignorance, a twisted ideological hatred for others, and a lack of personal morality are responsible for them.

People voted Liberal because they were well aware and well informed of the options pr, more importantly the lack of, not out of ignorance. Nobody knew which individual Liberal may have been a part of Adscam and were not willing to vote for a party in which bigotry and extreme social conservatism were exhibited, especially seeing what was going on with the same types south of the border. You saying these people were immoral and ignorant just doesn't make it so.

The testimony today must be huge. Question Period on Monday should be interesting and maybe even illuminating. Apparently the opposition parties know what was said. Hold on to your hats folks, we may be going for a ride!!

[Argus]

People voted Liberal because they were well aware and well informed of the options pr, more importantly the lack of, not out  of ignorance.  Nobody knew which individual Liberal may have been a part of Adscam and were not willing to vote for a party in which bigotry and extreme social conservatism were exhibited, especially seeing what was going on with the same types south of the border. 

They acted like sheep, herded and stampeded by Liberal spin doctors and a cooperative press making outlandish statements about the Tories wanting to destroy health care, outlaw abortion, and put homosexuals in concentration camps or whatever.

The fact is that the health care system in this country is in the toilet and the Liberals put it there. If anyone is a danger to the health care system it's them. Yet they were able to portray themselves (again) as the great saviours of health care. Same goes for almost everything else. Anyone who thinks the tories are "extreme" is probably extreme themselves. As for alleged bigotry, there are bigots in all parties, just as there are anti-abortionists and anti-gays in all parties. The media just concentrates on the tories and ignores those in the other parties. Actually, it used to ignore them in the tory party too, and concentrate on the Alliance. You didn't see them make a big fuss over anti-abortion Tories like Elsie Wayne when the Alliance was still in business. In fact, the media kind of liked her. Now that the Tories are a threat to the Liberals, though, you're seeing more critical focus on such tories.

There is absolutely no logical reason to say that you'd vote for the Liberals no matter how corrupt they are except that you're blinded by ideological hatred. The real difference between the positions of these parties and the demographics they appeal to is not that great. If you can't imagine yourself making the jump from one to the other and back again then the problem isn't their extremism it's yours.

The testimony today must be huge. Question Period on Monday should be interesting and maybe even illuminating.  Apparently the opposition parties know what was said. Hold on to your hats folks, we may be going for a ride!!

The speculation now is that the Liberals knew what was coming and introduced the Kyoto amendment to the budget because they want an election now, while the gag order is still in effect, and want to blame Harper.

[caesar]

Perhaps, but people willing to vote for crooked politicians out of ignorance, a twisted ideological hatred for others, and a lack of personal morality are responsible for them.

Hardly out of ignorance; we knew the alternatives. The Liberals only take our money ( there is certainly no guarantee that the Conservatives would not find there own way to fill their own piggy bank) Harper and his right wing Conservatives would destroy our moral views, weaken our sovereignity and produce a further sell out of Canada that B Mulroney began. The Conservatives have no concern for our Health Care nor our environment.

Yes, I would still have to vote to prevent a Harper from leading our country to destruction. If the Conservatives want to gain power; they need to replace their leader and pursue a more Canadian platform; protecting our environment and health care.

[Fortunata]

They acted like sheep, herded and stampeded by Liberal spin doctors and a cooperative press making outlandish statements about the Tories wanting to destroy health care, outlaw abortion, and put homosexuals in concentration camps or whatever.

You'd like to think that, however it is not true. It fits with that CPC ideology that think they can pull the wool over people's eyes so not to see Harper's history in the NCC. What he advocated is everything the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc said about him and more. It has nothing to do with Liberal or media spin. It's what Harper has believed in and spoke out on all his adult life is what scared people off.

The CPC has to start taking responsibility for losing the last election, and with fervent hope, the next one. People do not like nor do they trust Harper. It's pretty bloody sad that they would rather vote for Liberals after adscam than vote CPC. It sure says a lot for Harper doesn't it.

You can put voting down to what you want but it doesn't change the fact that Harper lost for good reasons. Maybe he will get luckier this election and the Liberals won't just shoot off a foot they'll lose their whole leg. That's the only way Harper will get elected. Isn't it about time you sucked it up?

[Redneck Yokel]

Caesar, would you mind pointing out which moral views the Conservatives would destroy? Also, could you tell me how they would damage our health care system any further than it already has been? (using examples from the Conservative platform... not purely from speculation)

As for the environment issue, it would be more worth the time and money to attempt to convince the U.S. and China to adhere to the Kyoto accord than to waste it on the so very little output of Canadians.

[caesar]

Caesar, would you mind pointing out which moral views the Conservatives would destroy? Also, could you tell me how they would damage our health care system any further than it already has been? (using examples from the Conservative platform... not purely from speculation)

Well for one; despite his later denials; Harper would have had Canada join in the ill concieved invasion of Iraq.

Killing innocent Iraq's and risking our own soldier's lives on an invasion that did not have a just cause and was based on fraudulent, forged and just plain bad intelligence.

[caesar]

As for the environment issue, it would be more worth the time and money to attempt to convince the U.S. and China to adhere to the Kyoto accord than to waste it on the so very little output of Canadians.

We are Canadians. We are responsible for Canadian acts. How can we point at other countries and tell them to adhere to the Kyoto accord unless we do so ourselves.

As for our Health Care; we have a much more effective and compassionate healthcare system here in Canada than do countries like the USA that have private health care. It is better to upgrade our Health Care than to move towards private health care. I would really like to see the Federal government take over the administration of our Healthcare system and remove control from the provincial governments that use it as a tool to pressure the feds for more money (always wanting no strings attached) The provinces have no incentive to have health care run smoothly when they can use it as a tool to pry more money from the feds..

[Argus]

Perhaps, but people willing to vote for crooked politicians out of ignorance, a twisted ideological hatred for others, and a lack of personal morality are responsible for them.

Hardly out of ignorance; we knew the alternatives. The Liberals only take our money ( there is certainly no guarantee that the Conservatives would not find there own way to fill their own piggy bank) Harper and his right wing Conservatives would destroy our moral views,

This would be the moral view that you don't care how much of a thief and a liar someonbe is because you'll want them as your leader anyway?

weaken our sovereignity

A sovereignty based on no military and a corporate sector almost entirely owned by foreign interests? That's what the Liberals produced, after all.

The Conservatives have no concern for our Health Care nor our environment.

And the Liberals, who have been in power most of the last forty years, do? Odd they've never shown it.

Yes, I would still have to vote to prevent a Harper from leading our country to destruction.

You know those wacko American Conservatives you were talking about in another thread? Well, look in a mirror, honey. You are their mirror image. You are just as much an extremist as Ann Coulter - just not nearly as articulate.

[Argus]

They acted like sheep, herded and stampeded by Liberal spin doctors and a cooperative press making outlandish statements about the Tories wanting to destroy health care, outlaw abortion, and put homosexuals in concentration camps or whatever.

You'd like to think that, however it is not true. It fits with that CPC ideology that think they can pull the wool over people's eyes so not to see Harper's history in the NCC. What he advocated is everything the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc said about him and more. It has nothing to do with Liberal or media spin.

Drivel.

The last election but one was fought primarily over health care. The Liberals, who had let health care deteriorate into its present condition, wrapped themselves in the flag and portrayed themselves as the great defenders of health care. And it worked. And when they got back into power - they let health care continue to fall apart. Last election, they pulled the same stunt, the great defenders of health care - which was again the number one issue. And since then what? Martin held one meeting, added a few pennies to the budget, and declared health care to be fixed for a generation. Odd how we still have 10 and 12 hour waits at emergency rooms and multi month waits for cancer treatement, eh?

But the same moronic sheep which followed their every word with desperate anxiety will rush out to vote for them again to "protect health care" from the evil Tories and their "hidden agenda". Because, after all, we know the Tories don't want to ever get elected again. They'll be quite content to get in, destroy health care, and then be booted out again. Right. That makes sense.

I've said it before. Canadians are as stupid and as gullible over health care as Americans. Both nations cling to ridiculously inefficient and ineffective systems. And the moment anyone suggests sweeping changes they allow the people who have vested interests in the present system to stampede them into defending them.

[Argus]

Caesar, would you mind pointing out which moral views the Conservatives would destroy? Also, could you tell me how they would damage our health care system any further than it already has been? (using examples from the Conservative platform... not purely from speculation)

Well for one; despite his later denials; Harper would have had Canada join in the ill concieved invasion of Iraq.

Martin was in favour of it too, at one point. Even Chretien said he was willing to send troops so long as the UN agreed.

Iraq was invaded for very good reasons. If they can learn to govern themselves properly it might serve as an example throughout the Arab world. We are already seeing some results in Lebanon, with protesters demanding to know why the Iraqis can vote for their leaders but they can't. If Iraq democracy succeeds we'll see the same thing happening in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

[Argus]

As for the environment issue, it would be more worth the time and money to attempt to convince the U.S. and China to adhere to the Kyoto accord than to waste it on the so very little output of Canadians.

We are Canadians. We are responsible for Canadian acts. How can we point at other countries and tell them to adhere to the Kyoto accord unless we do so ourselves

You are so incredibly gullible. Do you actually believe Martin and the Liberals have the slightest intention of adhering to the Kyoto accord? It was signed out of political expediency, to shore up support among Liberals who care about the environment and who might otherwise jump to the NDP. But it's fairly clear that the goals are impossible to meet, and that they have no plans in place to do so.

As for our Health Care; we have a much more effective and compassionate healthcare system here in Canada than do countries like the USA that have private health care.

The mantra of the sheep. It might as well be "Bahh! Bahhh! BahhH!". It's all they know. As far as they're aware - because that's what the Liberals tell them - there are only two health care systems on this planet: ours and the evil Americans. Never mind that countries like France and Germany have better health care systems without the long waits for treatment and don't really pay any more money for their systems than we do.

[kimmy]

Globe and Mail article

CTV article

National Post article

(interestingly, not a whisper about this on the CBC website.)

The new testimony before Justice John Gomery cannot be revealed due to a publication ban, but it is said to be so damning that the Bloc would consider toppling the government in hopes of sweeping Quebec, where the sponsorship inquiry is closely watched, in the resulting election.

If an election were called, CTV Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife said Parliament could be in line for shakeup. The Bloc Quebecois could potentially sweep Quebec in an election, Fife said.

When does Jean Brault's jury get sequestered? That's a date that will probably get circled on a lot of calenders in Ottawa.

-kimmy

{the universe is unfolding as it should}

[CAGERATTLER]

Perhaps, but people willing to vote for crooked politicians out of ignorance, a twisted ideological hatred for others, and a lack of personal morality are responsible for them.

So are you implying everybody that voted Liberal is ignorant,hate others and have a lack of personal morality?

Gee that should go a long way in getting them to vote CON servative!

HINT::: Some of us are old enough to remember the Mulroney years NO CROOKS THERE EH?

[Argus]

Globe and Mail article

CTV article

National Post article

(interestingly, not a whisper about this on the CBC website.)

You know, I had the exact same thought when I checked there.

When does Jean Braults jury get sequestered? Thats a date that will probably get circled on a lot of calenders in Ottawa.

The trial is secheduled for May, but his lawyer has asked for a postponement until September, claiming he hasn't enough time to properly prepare. He'll likely get that postponement.

[Guest eureka]

Perhaps you should try listening to the News - or watching. The CBC has given this plenty of play.

The internet is not the only place in this world.

[kimmy]

Have they? I hadn't realized. CBC Newsworld has been a non-stop Pope-a-thon the past several days, and I just haven't got the patience to sit through hours of Papal retrospectives in hope of seeing some non-Pope news. As for the CBC evening news, I seldom watch it in any event, as their local package is so 3rd rate.

I found the story's absence from the CBC website to be somewhat conspicuous. Perhaps it was just an oversight.

-kimmy

[The Terrible Sweal]

They acted like sheep, herded and stampeded by Liberal spin doctors and a cooperative press making outlandish statements about the Tories wanting to destroy health care, outlaw abortion, and put homosexuals in concentration camps or whatever.

What do the tories want to do with health care?

We know now that the party's policy under Harper is to not go after abortion. But the electorate didn't know it then, and a major policy vote was needed to clear it up.

The party's policy on marriage indicates a willingness to distinguish the rights of some from the rights of others. The comments of some party members and adherents is distinctly hostile to homosexuals. ...

[Argus]

They acted like sheep, herded and stampeded by Liberal spin doctors and a cooperative press making outlandish statements about the Tories wanting to destroy health care, outlaw abortion, and put homosexuals in concentration camps or whatever.

What do the tories want to do with health care?

As far as I can determine, they want to make it work.

We know now that the party's policy under Harper is to not go after abortion.  But the electorate didn't know it then, and a major policy vote was needed to clear it up.

Drivel. It was known for years that the majority of even the Reform Party members voted down an anti-abortion plank at previous conventions. They certainly didn't become MORE conservative when they became the Alliance, much less when they joined up with the old Tories.

The party's policy on marriage indicates a willingness to distinguish the rights of some from the rights of others.  The comments of some party members and adherents is distinctly hostile to homosexuals.  ...

So are the comments of some Liberals, though they get little play in the media. So what? If you're a homosexual I suppose the party's view of gays is primary to you. I'm not, so it's not. I don't give a damn whether homosexuals marry or not, though I admit to an instinctive dislike of the preaching, smugness, intolerance, and moral superiority of those who advocate for this cause.

[The Terrible Sweal]

A sovereignty based ... a corporate sector almost entirely owned by foreign interests? That's what the Liberals produced, after all.

True in a partial, distorted, tory-istic kind of way. Mulroney led that charge, Chretien abetted it to curry favor with generally rightwing interests. Trudeau had fought it, but undermined it with unsustainable (at least in the time frame involved) economic measures.

[CAGERATTLER]

The speculation now is that the Liberals knew what was coming and introduced the Kyoto amendment to the budget because they want an election now, while the gag order is still in effect, and want to blame Harper.

Key word for the above post:::"" SPECULATION ""

The main diet for a CON servative supporter is hearsay and spectulation.

These are also a part of the main diet of the Reform alias Alliance Alias NEW CON servative party.

Should we spectulate another name change?

[Trial-and-Error]

(interestingly, not a whisper about this on the CBC website.)

Gee, kimmy, I read your news sources and all I saw was blah, blah, blah about nadda, nadda, nadda...could, might, may..... What's the news? That information gleaned at the Gomery inquiry was explosive enough to bring on an election? That's a statement with no details. I'm always amazed at how much can be written about bloody little. The CBC has done a great job at keeping its audience up-to-date on the Gomery inquiry. Guess this good network is conserving its resources pending receipt of the meat.

[caesar]

Just foolish rumours until someone has something to report.