Get Rid of Quebec

[Iknowbest]

I am listening to a radio talk show and the subject is

Quebec leaving Canada for good. No exceptions, every caller is 110% in favor of getting rid of Quebec including the separatist pigs from Quebec. Hey we would get Prince Ruperts Land back, James Bay Hydro would become a huge Canadian Utility Company, Newfoundland, Labrador and Ontario would love it and Haiti would make Quebec look like a 5th world country.

Lets get rid of those leeches!!

[Michael Hardner]

You seem to be putting your emotional cart before your cerebral donkey here.

It doesn't matter if 110% of callers say anything. Those call in shows are designed to vent emotion and attract angry listeners and callers.

Ontarians tend to worry about the stability of the country and the economy if Quebec should leave. This is why no political party except the Bloc is suggesting that option.

[seabee]

Perhaps the federal government would get Rupert's Land back; but by the same token, Québec would get Labrador back, with it's abundant, unexploited, hydro-electric potential; and also, it would get back Fort-Rouillé, better known today as Toronto, and all that was formerly called Upper Canada. So, Torontonians, better start learning French now; the next referendum, in all likelyhood, will be held June 23, 2008.

On a more serious note, however, I think anyone wishing to specultate on the aftermath of Québec's independance should carefully read and study all the implications of the August 1998 Supreme Court of Canada's opinion on the question, as well as Bill C-20, the "Clarity Bill", and wonder why, in private, Québec's independantists view both as victories. One might even wonder if SCC Justice Lamer and Stéphane Dion were not Trojan horses sent into the Dominion to undermine it.

[_747]

I am making my Forum circuit, but I _747 as many know is as Iknowbest puts it a separatist pig. However if you are going to talk about Quebec you should understand Quebec wants distinct society or Sovereignty by association but the people of Canada and the Canadian Federations has said on many occassions screw you. Quebec's march towards separation is a defense mechanism against a people and Country that wants to drive it to cultural immolation (ie Toronto, Vancouver). Quebec was purposely left out of the 1982 Constitution. The meech and charlotte accords both failed because of the majority imposing itself on the minority rather than doing what is right and just. As Seabree points out Toronto and Labrador used to be Quebec/Nouvelle France.

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopups/.../nf-1759_e.html

After the 1774 Quebec Act, Quebec embodied this area:

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopups/...ena-1774_e.html

English Canada should be happy with Labrador and the Ontario possessions and let modern day Quebec be on its merry way. James Bay Hydro is a fair trade to the Churchill Falls project that would otherwise belong to Quebec. !

_747

[Guest eureka]

Quebec never consisted of more than a few settlements along two rivers. It never had Labrador and it never had Toronto. Everything but those few settlements was territory that was being fought over with the British whose claim and right of arms and population was far better.

New France was always a fiction.

Actually, though, if you want to try again for the OHIO territory, I will lend you my old uniform for one of your brave lads.

[caesar]

Why would we want Quebec to leave Canada. We need all our provinces and territories to make a strong Canada (Even whining Albertans)

I think it is time that the federal government started negotiating agreements with Quebed, in good faith; rather than the recent method of attempting to bribe Quebec to stay.

Quebec needs to give the English language the same rights and respect that it expects from other jurisdictions.

[kimmy]

and also, it would get back Fort-Rouillé, better known today as Toronto, and all that was formerly called Upper Canada.

yeah, that would happen!

Actually, though, if you want to try again for the OHIO territory, I will lend you my old uniform for one of your brave lads.

I think it is time that the federal government started negotiating agreements with Quebed, in good faith; rather than the recent method of attempting to bribe Quebec to stay.

I'm sure that everybody from Trudeau right through to Martin has been dealing in good faith... but obviously there are very different ideas of what the best way to address the situation is.

I don't know that continuing to grant concessions to Quebec has made Quebec less likely to separate, but I do believe that it has made other provinces more aggressive in seeking their own concessions from the fedz. Even Ontario is now getting into the act, it appears.

-kimmy

[caesar]

I don't know that continuing to grant concessions to Quebec has made Quebec less likely to separate, but I do believe that it has made other provinces more aggressive in seeking their own concessions from the fedz. Even Ontario is now getting into the act, it appears.

I think that is due more to the concessions made to Newfoundland over the oil revenues,

[caesar]

I'm sure that everybody from Trudeau right through to Martin has been dealing in good faith... but obviously there are very different ideas of what the best way to address the situation is.

Trudeau did but since then it has been mainly bribes and vote buying that I have seen.

[_747]

For one trudeau was traitor and should have been hung in Quebec. Before Trudeau Quebec was a contained society until Trudeau tried to impose that illegal constitution on the people of Quebec. The Quebec government, Quebec's true representative and the people of Quebec never agreed to that Constitution. All that toilet paper did was impose bilingualism on the rest of the country that people whine and cry about at every opportunity, and blame Quebec for, to boot. Blame the the LIBERALS!

Quebec needs to give the English language the same rights and respect that it expects from other jurisdictions.

What $?#

Quebec's official language is French, Quebec was founded on French, there is more than Enough english in other provinces. Let me put it this way, what is the penetration of French in other provinces?

In the seventies English Canadians and Businesses were setting up shop in an attempt to undermine Quebec Society so Quebec responded by passing the language laws. 1982 the Liberals came back with that toilet paper and are trying to use that to impose English on Quebec. Nice Try, come again :angry:

The people of Canada refuse to respect Quebec, and respect means that Canada accepts Quebec's language: French and only French. This is not happening, the march to Separation continues.

Quebec never consisted of more than a few settlements along two rivers. It never had Labrador and it never had Toronto. Everything but those few settlements was territory that was being fought over with the British whose claim and right of arms and population was far better.

Here is problem, you are in denial. When people call a spade a spade maybe will have something to work with. Have a look at those links

I provided. Thos links are a Federal Government Website. There are plenty of Old maps of Nouvelle France to be found, if you do a little searching. If we use that logic, than Canada is not really inhabited is it?

_747

[PocketRocket]

Quebec's official language is French, Quebec was founded on French, there is more than Enough english in other provinces. Let me put it this way, what is the penetration of French in other provinces?

You ever travel through Northern Ontario??

You'll find more French than English.

Once you get north of Parry Sound, the French language just sort of takes over in most communities.

And, strangely enough, being an Anglophone living here, it doesn't bother me a bit that the majority of people are French. They don't seem to be too upset about me being English, either. Isn't it wierd, that we can all get along???

BTW. I want to separate, too.

I find I don't get enough money from the government, in fact, thay have the nerve to make ME pay taxes, both on my income, and on my property.

So, I want to take my house, and my yard, and separate.

What do you all think sounds better, "Pocketland" or "Rocketland"

[Guest eureka]

747, you are sick so I will not waste much time on you.

However, no Constitution is being imposed on Quebec. The Canada Act, 1982, merely repatriated the Canadian Constitution to Canada. It changed nothing.

It is a federal document and needs no Provincial approval from Quebec or anyone else. The provinces were asked to sign as a courtesy, not a legal requirement. Too bad if your provincial government has not yet grown out of the "victim" mode.

The rest of your contentions are merely the symptoms of your illness; a mental illness brought on by the Mad psychtiatrist, Laurin. No sane person could believe them.

[playfullfellow]

(Even whining Albertans)

Raspberries to you caesar but ultimately you are right. Sigh, I can not deny that. This issue has to be put to bed but it seems no one has the cahonies to do so. Reading through the posts here, there sure seems to be a variance on peoples interpretation of history. But you know, history is in the past, we can't change it. What we need to do is look towards tomorrow, we can do something about that out come. Even as a "whining Albertan", I am not in favour of seperation of any province. I do however dislike favourtism shown at times in the past just to buy a few votes.

If Quebec does chose to seperate, let them. Let them leave with what they have right now, not what they had 200 years ago. Pull all Federal projects out of the territory, cancel all Federal contracts and then send them a bill for their share of our national debt. "X" number of dollars for every person in Quebec. How many companies would stay past the first couple of years after they lose their place at the Federal feed trough? You would have a country that does not have it's own money, has no military, the infrastructure would be chaos and there would be a huge debt to boot. What about unemployment, what kind of figures would we see there? Everybody is screaming they are the victim here yet the only ones who seem to benefit here are the lawyers and politicians while the rest of us get to pay the tab. This includes people from Quebec. Can you imagine the strength of this country if we were organized and united, striving for the same goal? With our resources and determination (even welfare BC has determination) we could be a very self-sufficient country.

Caesar, I am sure you have heard this before but do you know what we Albertans refer to "BC" as ....... Bring Cash Anyways, have a good day and look forward to your next Alberta bashing post.

[caesar]

even welfare BC has determination)

That is a cheap shot. We have been paying more than our share for years. We have only been technically a have not province for a short period which is coming to an end.

As for BC ... "bring cash" whatever that is supposed to mean?? Of course, you can bring cash but we accept debit or credit cards, too. Did you think you should holiday here for free. If I am heading to Alberta; I would bring my cash and cards. We don't free load.

As for just letting Quebec go and companies there just go under; don't forget that the majority of Quebecers, so far, want to remain in Canada. Even if Quebec got the vote to separate; do we just abandon all those people and companies that did not want to separate.

Actually, I have no problems with Alberta, other than your weather. Just this forum seems to be full of Albertan separatists; not likely the mindset of the majority of Albertans. We all get irritated by the federal government and its disregard for the west; however, I believe we need to demand more equality and respect but we are still better off being part of that larger entity. Heaven help us if BC were to separate with our yo yo politics here.

[kimmy]

I don't know that continuing to grant concessions to Quebec has made Quebec less likely to separate, but I do believe that it has made other provinces more aggressive in seeking their own concessions from the fedz. Even Ontario is now getting into the act, it appears.

I think that is due more to the concessions made to Newfoundland over the oil revenues,

In Ontario's case, that appears to have been the straw that broke the camel's back... but in other provinces the game has been going on for much longer, and it's a game that has been learned by studying how Quebec politicians operate.

I'm sure that everybody from Trudeau right through to Martin has been dealing in good faith... but obviously there are very different ideas of what the best way to address the situation is.

Trudeau did but since then it has been mainly bribes and vote buying that I have seen.

Trudeau and Chretien's firm stances and Mulroney and Martin's accomodating attitudes are quite different, but I do believe that all 4 of them are sincere in their motivations. I do think they all wanted to solve the Quebec problem but they obviously had different ideas of how to approach it.

So, I want to take my house, and my yard, and separate.

What do you all think sounds better, "Pocketland" or "Rocketland"

Have you considered starting a Bloc Pocket party?

If Quebec does chose to seperate, let them. Let them leave with what they have right now, not what they had 200 years ago. Pull all Federal projects out of the territory, cancel all Federal contracts and then send them a bill for their share of our national debt. "X" number of dollars for every person in Quebec.

I somewhat agree with this train of thought. Stay if you wish, go if you must. But if you choose to separate, we "TROCs" insist that it be a clean break. Separation should be just that, not a buffet where one may choose this and that, but pass by other things.

-kimmy

[Slavik44]

You know, 747, You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I can understand why quebec wants their culture or way of life or whatever it is protected, I am tying to imagine Canada being apart of America and you know I would want certain limitations and a level of respect towards canda to be present. However I also realise that telling a bunch of Americans I want to seperate form your country can you give me 20 billion will not work.

As I said You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, now ask yourself do you think telling an "Albertan Redneck" that you want to seperate from Caanda because you ain't gettign anything out of being apart of the country is going to make every one in Alberta happy to give you equalization payments. Hell I would ahve no problem putting measures out there and giving money to Quebec? if quebec could stop this sepratist bullshit, and proove once and for all it was committed to Canada first and formost, I would have no problem, with quebec getting federal hand outs and special treatment. So when you walk out there with your hardline stance you must realise that you are infact hurting yourself more than anything. Because anyone will co-operate with a good friend but no one will want to or be happy about being enslaved to a bunch of people who don't want to be in this country. It is absolute bullshit to expect that someone would want to do that. Drop the sepratist stance, and YOU start negotiating in good faith and you will see a return on such an investment.

[Newfie Canadian]

My take on separatism is pretty much how kimmy summed it up: go if you want, but we're taking back the keys to the house and locking the refrigerator after you go.

And no, you can't borrow the car on the weekend.

[Guest eureka]

Newfie, the problem with your take on Quebec is that it is much what the government of Quebec, which represents only one its peoples wants to hear.

When you say "go if you want," you are oberlooking the fact that, leaving aside Francophone federalists, thre are more than 600,000 English speaking Canadians in Quebec. You would abandon these!

Before the language laws, there were 1,250,000 English speaking Canadians there. More than 600,000 of these were driven from Quebec in a fine example of "ethnic cleansing." You abandoned Quebec then out of the ignorance that Canadians seem to take pride in over the reality of Quebec.

Separation is not even a possibility for a thousand reasons. However, Quebec nationalists do not care about that so long as they have their autonomous ethnic ghetto with most of their demands met.

The Quebec Liberals have always happily compromised on this. They want to be part of Canda so long as Canada pays the bills. But they want the same ghetto.

Kimmy. in particular, thimks that this issue of decentralization is a "hobby horse." It is not and arises from long acquaintance with these problems. It is the jealous protection of provincial powers by the other provinces that has allowed Quebec to play this game. All that most provincial leaders have ever cared about is that they also get anything Quebec can extort.

The Rights of Canadian citizens are unimportant.

[Bakunin]

Stop whinning about quebecers..... blame the liberal !!!

We hate them as much as you guys do and they are 100% responsible of there political mistake...

With what we are hearing from gomery comission, i would not be surprised if the bloc get 60% of the vote next election.

The federal and provincial liberal have never been so hated in quebec since the 70s... I don't know if you guys are hearing whats happening in quebec cause you should.

I can't explain how much ppl are pissed off the provincial liberal, only in education, my cegep is on strike since 4 week, there are 170 000 students on strike right now, the number grow evry day...

Click here for pictures of the last protest

Once we finish our strike, the teacher are going on strike, they already voted to go on strike.... and after that the service personel (janitor, technicians, etc...) will go on strike prolly.... so my session is ruined cause of the government cut in education.

So the situation is explosive, the next provincial election, the liberal will get raped badly, the next federal election, the liberal will get raped badly. If there are not major change in the federal politics and im not talking about buying quebecers cause they will just get more pissed off, im talking about structural change, if nothing change quebecers will take care of it...

[Newfie Canadian]

I apologize Bakunin, I should have been more specific.

I wasn't whining about the people of Québec. And you're right about the Liberals.

In regards to the general population, I assume (as I'm hardly an expert on Québec culture) they want what people in NL, or BC or Manitoba want, for the most part: a better deal from the feds.

It's the sovereigntist movement my beef is with.

There is no pleasing them. They want out and that's it. But if they (the sovereigntists) want out, it should be made clear that they are taking all Québecers all the way out.

Bakunin, if there had been a clear and concise question in the last referendum with a clear and concise plan put forward by both the PQ and the Feds as to what the relationship would be, perhaps a clean break with no association or the like, would the vote have been different?

In regards to the provincial Liberals, Québec appears to suffer provincially from what we all suffer federally: no better alternatives.

[Bakunin]

It's the sovereigntist movement my beef is with.

There is no pleasing them. They want out and that's it. But if they (the sovereigntists) want out, it should be made clear that they are taking all Québecers all the way out.Bakunin, if there had been a clear and concise question in the last referendum with a clear and concise plan put forward by both the PQ and the Feds as to what the relationship would be, perhaps a clean break with no association or the like, would the vote have been different?

Well right now about 20% want quebec to be fully independant, about 50% want quebec to become sovregn then offer an association deal, about 20% want to stay in canada whatever happen.

The problem is that the federal government (Liberal)refuse to end the status quo and rework its structure cause if some province want more centralization, some want less. Right now like many people, i just cant see how we could make a plan with the federal, they just refuse to cooperate, so for many, the easyest way to make a deal would be a winning referendum, then the federal government would have no choice to negociate.

In regards to the provincial Liberals, Québec appears to suffer provincially from what we all suffer federally: no better alternatives.

No we have the PQ wich is generally a better choice, and for the right wing there is the adq.

[caesar]

The problem is that the federal government (Liberal)refuse to end the status quo and rework its structure cause if some province want more centralization, some want less. Right now like many people, i just cant see how we could make a plan with the federal, they just refuse to cooperate, so for many, the easyest way to make a deal would be a winning referendum, then the federal government would have no choice to negociate.

It takes two to tango and two to negotiate. Many of us look and see Quebec who refuses to cooperate and negotiate. The refusal to give the English language equal rights in the province while expecting other provinces with minimal French speaking population to accomodate French speaking visitors or citizens equal access to services. (expecting any federal employee to be able to converse in Franch) has really ticked off many of us and less willing to accomodate Quebec. It appears that Quebec wants us to bend over backwards to accomodate them without giving back any respect or consideration.

[Bakunin]

It takes two to tango and two to negotiate. Many of us look and see Quebec who refuses to cooperate and negotiate. The refusal to give the English language equal rights in the province while expecting other provinces with minimal French speaking population to accomodate French speaking visitors or citizens equal access to services. (expecting any federal employee to be able to converse in Franch) has really ticked off many of us and less willing to accomodate Quebec. It appears that Quebec wants us to bend over backwards to accomodate them without giving back any respect or consideration.

I understand, but who did that ? who wanted a coast to coast billingual country, the sovregnist ? no its the federalist of the liberal party, the same party we are fighting against. Honestly i don't give a shit about canada's accomodation, i know that the path taken by the liberal can't work, if evryone has to compromise all the time, evryone will hate each others. What we must look at is the structure of the country. We must focus on partnership and win-win deal, where are the win-win deal ? free trade, an international voice, interior security, army, maybe a few service we can share but we must focus on win-win deal.

[Guest eureka]

I understand you better now, Bakunin. Your post about CEGEP explains well why you are so dense and brainwashed.

CEGEP was always the grounds for French "educators" to spread their propaganda and myths as well as hatred for all things English. Never did anyone come out of a French CEGEP with any semblance of truth or wisdom in his head.

There could be, and I think will one day be, a win-win situation. That day will be when the Canadian army is in Quebec City to place Quebec under trusteeship while the inststutions of democracy and freedoms are under restoration.

Can't wait for it!

[caesar]

Honestly i don't give a shit about canada's accomodation, i know that the path taken by the liberal can't work, if evryone has to compromise all the time,

Not everyone is compromising; only English Canada; that is the problem. Quebec doe not return the respect.