War in the middle east.

[Army Guy]

Ceasar:

I was being sarcastic....in regards to another post made earilar in Ref to Al Quaida.

That does not condone the actions of the USA government that has now angered Muslim nations;

You are refering to the Invasion of Iraq....Because the Arabs in the middle east have been pissed off at the states for decades now....

made them distrustful of the Agenda of the USA government towards other Muslim nations

What agenda is it that they are so afraid of that they would gladly give thier lives up...

and has convinced many young Muslim youth that their survival is best served by joining these terrorists/ freedom fighters.

It's based on thier education at home,in schools, and at place of worship....and from thier peers....that westerns "ALL" westerns from europe or N.A are to be hated...

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

I don't think the people of Afghanistan were stoked about the war against the Soviets. Interesting, too, that many of the vicious "warlords" that rule over most of that country also oppossed the Soviets.

The people of Afgan seen the soviet invasion as a holy war....the people were stocked...which turned to hatred as the war progressed. Those vicious warlords were fighting each other up until the invasion even then it was an unstable relationship at best...even today...

But from an Islamist perspctive, both invasions are the same: imperialist, western aggression against the followers of Islam. remember, OBL and his cohorts believe they are fighting a defensive war agsints western encroachment.

Yes, from a islam propective they may both look the same...but the war on terror is agains'nt OBL and his merry crew not the people of Afgan....OBL is running for his life and will continue to do so until he is brought down by western forces....the west was quite happy with letting him kill the people of afgan....until they attacked the US...

What western encroachment ?

[Black Dog]

Yes, from a islam propective they may both look the same...but the war on terror is agains'nt OBL and his merry crew not the people of Afgan....OBL is running for his life and will continue to do so until he is brought down by western forces....the west was quite happy with letting him kill the people of afgan....until they attacked the US...

My point is taht westerners tend to think of the two as seperate. The people on teh other side do not, which make sit very difficult to prosecute a war on terror and win people over to your side.

What western encroachment ?

-U.S. support for Israel that keeps Palestinians in the Israelis' thrall

-U.S and other Western troops on the Arabian peninsula

-U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan

-U.S. support for Russia, India, and China against their Muslim militants

-U.S. pressure on Arab energy producers to keep oil prices low

-U.S. support for apostate, corrupt, and often tyrannical Muslim governments

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

In Afganistan all the afgans i talked to were happy we were there and that they were tired of war,....and they were glad that the taliban were gone....

U.S. support for Israel that keeps Palestinians in the Israelis' thrall

(For good reason)

-U.S and other Western troops on the Arabian peninsula

(Has those goverments asked them to leave)

-U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan

( if 9/11 did not happen they would not be there today)

-U.S. support for Russia, India, and China against their Muslim militants

(the US has spoken out again'st the war in Chechen)

-U.S. pressure on Arab energy producers to keep oil prices low

(Last time i look 54.00 a barrel you OK with that)

-U.S. support for apostate, corrupt, and often tyrannical Muslim governments

your talking about Egypt,and Suadi arabi are you not...

I bet if you were to ask any of those insurgents why they were fighting it would be just because the US is in Iraq ...

other than that they could not tell you why...

[Black Dog]

In Afganistan all the afgans i talked to were happy we were there and that they were tired of war,....and they were glad that the taliban were gone....

But rember: the Taliban enjoyed a lot of popular suport in the post-Soviet period because they brought stability to the country...something the U.S. has been unable to acheive.

I bet if you were to ask any of those insurgents why they were fighting it would be just because the US is in Iraq ...

other than that they could not tell you why...

Those greiveances I listed are AL Qaeda's. Te Iraqi insurgency is not Al Qaeda, but predominatly ex-Baathist Sunnis.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Army Guy,

In Afganistan all the afgans i talked to were happy we were there and that they were tired of war,....and they were glad that the taliban were gone....

Indeed, the Afghanis did grow weary of the increasingly oppressive rule of the Taliban.

U.S and other Western troops on the Arabian peninsula

(Has those goverments asked them to leave)

The Saud family is crooked...almost as bad as the US...Bin Laden hates then for being an 'apostate gov't', oppressing Muslims in 'the land of the two holy places', and the Sauds are probably the most dangerous to, and most hateful of, the USA.

U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan

( if 9/11 did not happen they would not be there today)

9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. Neither does it have anything to do with the continued occupations.

U.S. support for Russia, India, and China against their Muslim militants

(the US has spoken out again'st the war in Chechen)

The US also issued statements of support for China's oppression of the Uighers, and for Russias oppression of Muslims.

Now, these and the other things Black Dog listed were the specific grievances listed by Bin Laden as to why he has attacked, and will continue to attack, the US. It doesn't mean that they are just, fair, or right, but it also means that he does not 'hate America's freedom or democracy'.

I bet if you were to ask any of those insurgents why they were fighting it would be just because the US is in Iraq ...

other than that they could not tell you why...

If you asked a Frenchman in 1944 why he was fighting against the Germans, he would say it was because they invaded his country. If you asked a Canadian, a Brit or an American why they are fighting the Germans, they couldn't give the same answer.

[B. Max]

Yes syria claims the same thing. Yet the terrorists that were caught last year on their way to jordan, with the chemical weapons they had to do who knows with them, got them in syria. Most likely they are some of the same weapons the russians moved out of iraq and into syria. Or else syria has their own chemical weapons and are giving them to terrorists, or both. More than enough reason to take out syria.

C'mon, say it: "I. Was. Wrong." You can do it!

As for your Syria story, you might want to keep this in mind: "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." (not "won't get fooled again.")

It would seem that even the newyork leftist times is reporting what really happened the missing WMD's. Maybe the lid is beginning to blow off this story. Much i suspect to the dismay of the blame america first crowd.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/...13/101911.shtml

[Black Dog]

It would seem that even the newyork leftist times is reporting what really happened the missing WMD's. Maybe the lid is beginning to blow off this story. Much i suspect to the dismay of the blame america first crowd.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/...13/101911.shtml

Fascinating. You and Newsmax claim the Times reported the existence of WMD stiockpiles, yet there's no link to a story, no article title or reporter cited and no way to verify anything. So you'll have to do better than NewsMax.I did, however, find this article from today that talks about the looting of Iraqi facilities.

Article?

the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting.

The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.

No stockpiles. No evidence of an active program. Just equpiment that may or may not be usable in a WMD program. You're really grasping at straws.

[Fortunata]

I thought all the bobble heads had moved their justifications from WMD to liberation and democracy. You're behind BMax. Get with the program!

[B. Max]

I thought all the bobble heads had moved their justifications from WMD to liberation and democracy. You're behind BMax. Get with the program!

I'm sure the left would love to move on. Otherwise there is going to be a hell of a lot of crow to eat. These reports keep surfacing and sooner or later we'll get the truth of the matter.

The lefts terrorist friends have already been caught with some of these weapons they recieved in syria. Syria claims they don't have any WMD's so how did these terrorists get their hands on WMD's in syria. Or does syria mean they don't have any of their own, just those that came from iraq.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/...17/141224.shtml

[Black Dog]

I'm sure the left would love to move on. Otherwise there is going to be a hell of a lot of crow to eat. These reports keep surfacing and sooner or later we'll get the truth of the matter.

Do you work for NewsMax?

"These reports" are over a year old. And while dodgy fringe publications like NewsMax can trumpet them all they want, I'm curious to know why they don't mesh with the very real, very offical (and recent) accounts by the United States' own intelligence services.

No signs that weapons were smuggled

Since the October report from Duelfer, which said Saddam intended to obtain WMD but had no banned weapons, senior administration leaders have largely stopped discussing whether the weapons were moved.

Last week, the intelligence and congressional officials said evidence indicating somewhat common equipment with dual military and civilian uses, such as fermenters, was salvaged during post-invasion looting and sold for scrap in other countries. Syria was mentioned as one location.

The lefts terrorist friends have already been caught with some of these weapons they recieved in syria. Syria claims they don't have any WMD's so how did these terrorists get their hands on WMD's in syria. Or does syria mean they don't have any of their own, just those that came from iraq.

I did a quick search on this story. Sure enough, the olny place it appeared was in sketchy right-wing publications and blogs, always quoting "unnamed Jordanian officials" and other secondary sources.

Frankly, given the reliability of the right-wing news apparatus (hello, "Jeff Gannon"!) it's no wonder none of these allegations ever picked up legs.

[B. Max]

I'm sure the left would love to move on. Otherwise there is going to be a hell of a lot of crow to eat. These reports keep surfacing and sooner or later we'll get the truth of the matter.

Do you work for NewsMax?

"These reports" are over a year old. And while dodgy fringe publications like NewsMax can trumpet them all they want, I'm curious to know why they don't mesh with the very real, very offical (and recent) accounts by the United States' own intelligence services.

No signs that weapons were smuggled

Since the October report from Duelfer, which said Saddam intended to obtain WMD but had no banned weapons, senior administration leaders have largely stopped discussing whether the weapons were moved.

Last week, the intelligence and congressional officials said evidence indicating somewhat common equipment with dual military and civilian uses, such as fermenters, was salvaged during post-invasion looting and sold for scrap in other countries. Syria was mentioned as one location.

The lefts terrorist friends have already been caught with some of these weapons they recieved in syria. Syria claims they don't have any WMD's so how did these terrorists get their hands on WMD's in syria. Or does syria mean they don't have any of their own, just those that came from iraq.

I did a quick search on this story. Sure enough, the olny place it appeared was in sketchy right-wing publications and blogs, always quoting "unnamed Jordanian officials" and other secondary sources.

Frankly, given the reliability of the right-wing news apparatus (hello, "Jeff Gannon"!) it's no wonder none of these allegations ever picked up legs.

There is no agreement on wheather WMD's were smuggled or not. There is enough evidence to suggest they were. However if newsmax reports the story you can take it to the bank. Even 630 in edmonton reported the terrorists with the WMD'S from syria last year. Shooting the messenger won't change what is known fact.

[Black Dog]

There is no agreement on wheather WMD's were smuggled or not. There is enough evidence to suggest they were.

Actually there isn't.

As the hunt for weapons of mass destruction dragged on unsuccessfully in Iraq, top Bush administration officials speculated publicly that the banned armaments may have been smuggled out of the country before the war started.

Whether Saddam Hussein moved the WMD — deadly chemical, biological or radiological arms — is one of the unresolved issues that the final U.S. intelligence report on Iraq's programs is expected to address next month.

But intelligence and congressional officials say they have not seen any information — never "a piece," said one — indicating that WMD or significant amounts of components and equipment were transferred from Iraq to neighboring Syria, Jordan or elsewhere.

Which makes sense, given the lack of evidence of any stockpiles or programs.

However if newsmax reports the story you can take it to the bank

Okay: you do work for NewsMax,don'tcha?

Even 630 in edmonton reported the terrorists with the WMD'S from syria last year

Oooh: another reliable source.

Even if we accept for a second that the stories regarding the alleged Jordanian operation, there's nothing to say that any of the materials involved came from Iraq.

[B. Max]

Even if we accept for a second that the stories regarding the alleged Jordanian operation, there's nothing to say that any of the materials involved came from Iraq.

Then syria has WMD's and are handing them out to terrorist's. Like i said, it's time to take out syria.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Even 630 in edmonton reported the terrorists with the WMD'S from syria last year.

Did it happen to be on the Rutherford [gong] Show?

[B. Max]

Even 630 in edmonton reported the terrorists with the WMD'S from syria last year.

Did it happen to be on the Rutherford [gong] Show?

No it was on general news cast, but so what if it was on rutherford. Does it have to be on some lefty pinko's show for you to believe it.

[Black Dog]

Then syria has WMD's and are handing them out to terrorist's. Like i said, it's time to take out syria.

Lemme guess: Syria is a grave and gathering danger to its neighbors, to the United States, to the Middle East and to the international peace and stability? It's a danger we cannot ignore? Right?

Jesus. You lot can't even be bothered to come up with a new pack of lies to push your agenda.

[Guest eureka]

But then he never knew that Syria was such a close and dangerous neighbour.

[Black Dog]

Iraq intel "all wrong"

The U.S. intelligence community was "simply wrong" in its assessments of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities before the U.S. invasion, according to a panel created to study those failures and recommend corrections to prevent them in the future.

"We conclude that the intelligence community was dead wrong in almost all of its prewar judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," said a letter from the commission to President Bush. "This was a major intelligence failure."

[Shakeyhands]

why do you guys continue to taunt Max... If he is off his meds it could get dangerous!

I'm a pinko commie!!!!!!

[Black Dog]

In all seriousness, the latest report blames the intelligence community's "inability to collect good information about Iraq's WMD programs, serious errors in analyzing what information it could gather and a failure to make clear just how much of its analysis was based on assumptions rather than good evidence". In other words: the flaws were systematic, but not deliberate.

I don't buy it.

I believe that the WMD meme was carefully manufactured and massaged by elements within the inteligence community, notably the Office of Special Plans, to create a publicly acceptable rationale for the preordained outcome: the invasion and occupation of Iraq. There's no way the public would have bought a large-scale intervention on the grounds of "spreading democracy", so the warmongers in the administration had to cook up something more palatable. Thus a "grave and gathering threat" was created and just as quickly discarded once the invasion was fait accompli.

Still, the power of the big lie is such that many continue to believe Iraq had WMD (like B.Max and the krazy kats at "News"Max), but also that such weapons were found. Meanwhile, Joesph Goebbels is squatting on hell's coals, laughing his ass off.

[caesar]

In all seriousness, the latest report blames the intelligence community's "inability to collect good information about Iraq's WMD programs, serious errors in analyzing what information it could gather and a failure to make clear just how much of its analysis was based on assumptions rather than good evidence". In other words: the flaws were systematic, but not deliberate.

You don't buy it Black dog and neither do I or millions of others who turned against this invasion of Iraq when the USA/British "coalition" used bribes and threats to bring other countries on board; used forged and fraudulent documents or old and plagiarized. Nor when the "coalition" failed to let the UN weapons inspectors complete their job in Iraq where compliance was being given to the UN weapons inspectors to a acceptable degree.