RCMP tragedy

[Fortunata]

Our justice system is what it is by a succession of governments both Conservative and Liberal. And it's ludicrous to blame the deaths of these men on marijuana. The man was a nut job and he had illegal weapons. That combination is designed to be lethal to someone someday.

What I think will be interesting in the coming days is if the neighbours ever complained to the RCMP about Roszko discharging firearms (as some have stated on tv he has done), and if so, why wasn't something done. IIRC once a person is convicted of violent crime, such as assault, they get an automatic weapons ban for a period of years. This should have raised questions or actions before this tragedy happened.

[Guest eureka]

I wondered how long it would take the "Law and Order" brigade to bring this tragedy into their misguided claims.

[Fortunata]

I wondered how long it would take the "Law and Order" brigade to bring this tragedy into their misguided claims.

eureka, I don't claim anything other than I think this was a case of a nut job with a gun.

The rest of what I posted was not for blame, but for interest. Don't get carried away labelling people as misguided for expressing a desire or an interest to get all the facts around this person and this event.

[caesar]

You want to know the god's honest truth as of to why our courts and laws are the way we are? It's because of people like YOU that vote in Liberal governments, which seem bent on "treating" criminals as opposed to punishing them. It's also people like YOU that demonize people like the Conservatives for wanting tougher laws.

Law and order; Conservatives??? Against gun registration for joining Bush in his illegal aggressive acts.

We do have to "treat" rehabituate criminals not just punish them. They are getting out one day. No treatments or rehabilitation just angry men with mental problems and no hope of working and re entering society.

[Fortunata]

No treatments or rehabilitation just angry men with mental problems and no hope of working and re entering society.

Yep. You only have to look south of the border to see this in action. Not something we should emulate.

[Guest eureka]

What prompted that, Fortunata? I was not referring to you and I will have to reread your posts to see why you may feel that the shoe may have fit.

[Fortunata]

My apologies eureka if I read that wrong.

A question that I have is, if the Sheriff with the repossession papers, saw Roszko leave with the truck to be repossed, why did they then call the RCMP, and why, when the RCMP arrived, did they cut the lock on the quonset and go inside?

Roszko was no longer there, the truck in question was no longer there and the RCMP did not, at that time, have a search warrant, nor did they have reason to go into that building. It was not until after they entered the quonset that they discovered the chop shop and the illegal plants. This is when they called for the experts out of Edmonton for the stolen property and the search warrant.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

[PocketRocket]

Marijuana growing was not his biggest problem. I believe the man had serious mental health and anti social tendencies.

However, if marijuana was legalized to be grown for one's own use; these grow ops would cease to be quite so profitable.

And whats to say they won't be replaced by Crack houses and meth labs?

Yet another perennial argument.

Here's one reason; most regular users of pot recognize the fact that it's a lot less harmful than alcohol. And LOTS less harmful than crack, meth, heroin, cocaine, opium etc etc etc.

So, many people use the "it'll lead to harder drugs" argument.

Have you ever considered that if pot were legalized, then a large number of people might opt for the "safe" drug vs the illegal "dangerous" drugs???

Also, kids are a lot smarter than they were in times past. They are smart enough to realize they are being lied to about pot. Many take this into consideration, and their reasoning goes along the lines of "They're lying to us about pot being harmful, what reason do we have to believe crack is harmful" and so on.

"The boy who cried wolf" syndrome, only the government is the boy who no one believes.

Sure, some people would try replace grow-ops with other sources of illegal revenue. But to make money, you need buyers.

Educate the public, rather than lie to them.

BTW, the Canadian Farmers Almanac lists Amanita Muscaria as a deadly-poisonous mushroom. (Amanita Nervosa is deadly). More propaganda. If it was that toxic, I and several friends would have been dead in the late 70's.

It's simply a very mild form of "magic" mushroom.

I have eaten up to 1/4 lb in a single sitting.

Toxic??? Not at all.

Perhaps the goverment simply perpetuates this myth because, unlike the far more rare psilocybin mushroom, amanita muscaria can be found growing almost anywhere. Can't have the public knowing that the mushroom they just walked past can get them stoned now, can we???

Educate people, rather than giving them hogwash, then they can make intelligent choices based on real information, rather than ill choices based on incomplete knowledge fueled by falsified statements.

[waynej625]

I have a concern about the criminal element. How can we as a society know that they will not simply go on to other lucrative illegal drug operations?

Exactly my feeling as well Newfie Canadian. What do we do as a society every time laws get repeatedly broken by the criminal element, simply give up and legalize the criminal activity? That certainly doesn't make sense to me. Our whole society seems to be going down the tubes with our permissive attitude, and then we wonder why people aren't safe in their own homes or on the streets. I feel terrible that this man was free in the first place to commit these murders. If he were kept where he obviously belonged, in a cage, this never would have happened.

We did away with the death penaly in Canada, where someone who perpetrated a crime fitting that punishment never got free to repeat the crime, but have we protected society? I am not a proponant of capital punishment, but it stands to reason if you do away with this punishment it should have been replaced with a punishment whereby that person never get's free. INstead we have replaced it with a Life Sentence, that really doesn't mean life, in fact it means that in all likelihood that person is going to be back on the streets before the body of their victim is even cold, so to speak. Our system continues to put innocent lives at risk. Life in prison should mean "Natural Life."

We have a federal government that dithers away their time by passing useless laws like our gun registry, and here we have a criminal who was supposed to be prohibited from owning or possessing weapons of any kind using a prohibited weapon. So much for the failed gun registry. Hello! Is anybody home in Ottawa? We have a justice system in Canada that has become a revolving door because of groups like the John Howard Society, and Elizabeth Fry, who do what they can to have prisons closed and criminals set loose on society to to what they will. They have this misdirected belief that all people are inherently good, and are thererfore capable of rehabilitation. This misguided mindset completely ignores the fact that some people are just "BAD." If we are going to have a justice system that enables a criminal mindset by offering no consequences for breaking the laws of this land other than a short , quick slap on the wrist and a stern talking to, what should we expect?

I worked for the John Howard Society for over 10 years with Young Offenders, and our Executive Director used to tell us in staff meetings all the time that he did want to ever hear a staff member say that there are 'BAD KIDS." The group home where I worked enabled our charges on numerous occassions to not only flaunt the law but to actually break it while in custody, with no consequences. I remember an occasion where some youths were found to be smoking dope in the house and when the Manager was called for direction. I was told to relay to the youth's the consequences of smoking dope in the house. When I inquired whether the police should be called, I was told, definitely not. When I inquired what the consequences were going to be if the police were not involved, I was told, tather sternly, to just talk to them. No wonder many of these youth's are now flourishing in the adult system, with several having been convicted of murder.

[PocketRocket]

  What do we do as a society every time laws get repeatedly broken by the criminal element, simply give up and legalize the criminal activity?

No. At least not with all laws. We would only do so when it's a stupid law, which was based on misinformation, ignorance, and outright lies. Do a search on the history of HOW pot came to be made illegal and you'll see what I mean.

Other examples include some sex laws. The are some states where anal sex, even with your own wife, is illegal.

I'm sure lots of people break that law. Are they criminals??? Is it criminal to break a law, when doing so causes no harm to anyone else, or even to yourself???

Most people speaking against legalization of pot have never tried it, and simply spout anecdotes about "friends" who are "zombies" from smoking too much. Same can be said of heavy boozers, and a lot worse.

There's also a law still on the boks in some parts of Canada, wherein an "innkeeper" has to provide food and lodging for the horse(s) of any guests staying the night.

Do you think if I pull in to a Ramada Inn tomorrow on a horse, that they'll provide it with such amenities??? No?? Why not??? If they don't they're breaking the law, aren't they???

That's the kind of thing I mean. Stupid or outdated laws.

Our whole society seems to be going down the tubes with our permissive attitude, 

In large part, I agree with this statement.

and then we wonder why people aren't safe in their own homes or on the streets.

Which streets??? In my town, I feel perfectly safe on the streets any time of day or night, alone, or with company.

  We did away with the death penaly in Canada, where someone who perpetrated a crime fitting that punishment never got free to repeat the crime, but have we protected society?

I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, if I know for a fact, having seen with my own eyes, someone commit a murder, then I'm all for frying him. But our court system has made mistakes. Look at Guy Paul Moran, or David Milgard. Both these men convicted, and put behind bars for years, even decades, but eventually being exonerated as new evidence arose.

Given a death penalty, both of these men would have fried. As it is, they've had half their lives stolen from them. You can't exactly pick up where you left off in society after being locked away for 20 years. If our legal system executes even one inoocent man, then how does that make the system better than the criminals it is trying???

  I am not a proponant of capital punishment, but it stands to reason if you do away with this punishment it should have been replaced with a punishment whereby that person never get's free.

Agreed. In addition, convicts of this nature should be made to do assembly-line work or something similar to pay the expenses for the facility they're in. I resent having my tax money paying for a private resort so that these guys can have satellite tv, and a billiards room, etc etc.

  We have a federal government that dithers away their time by passing useless laws like our gun registry, and here we have a criminal who was supposed to be prohibited from owning or possessing weapons of any kind using a prohibited weapon. 

I agree in part. It's a good idea to have firearms registered, but that will not keep weapons out of criminal hands. Guns are simply too abundant and easily moved. The registry, as it was conceived and set up, is a waste of resources, and has done little good.

Hello! Is anybody home in Ottawa? 

Is there ever anyone home there??? Maybe they all went out because they were afraid of being buglarized.

[Black Dog]

I have a concern about the criminal element. How can we as a society know that they will not simply go on to other lucrative illegal drug operations?

Uh... they already are. Meth, crack, coke: you name it, organized crime has its fingers in the pie. Legalizing weed would knock out one of their revenue streams, which they would have to make up. But if weed were legalized, cops wouldn't have to botehr expending resources and tiem busting "mom and pop" marijuana operations and focus on the harder, actuallly dangerous drugs.

[bbacon]

Canada is way over regulated. In Canada with about 30m people we now have some 400,000 Pages of rules regulations and laws. That is ridiculous. It costs over 12b in tax dollars each year just to shuffle that paperwork from desk to desk. 400,000 pages of laws is a stack of paper so high you need an extention ladder to reach the top page.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Which is as good a reason as any to clear out absurd and outdated regulations.

Any legislation found to prohibit an unharmful activity should be removed. Any legislation found to cause more harm than the absence of said legislation should also be removed, or modified such that it prevents more harm than it causes.

[caesar]

We have a federal government that dithers away their time by passing useless laws like our gun registry, and here we have a criminal who was supposed to be prohibited from owning or possessing weapons of any kind using a prohibited weapon. 

Aaah, but look where this tradgedy happened. Alberta, which does not support the gun registration. Why, did the local police allow this man to carry on as he had terrorizing the neighbours with his guns???

[PocketRocket]

  Aaah, but look where this tradgedy happened.  Alberta, which does not support the gun registration. 

Do you think if Alberta did support the gun registry, that this guy would have actually registered his firearms??

Do you think he would have locked them away safely???

Do you think it would have made him less inclined to shoot???

A psycho is a psycho is a psycho. No law or registry will change that fact.

Why, did the local police allow this man to carry on as he had terrorizing the neighbours with his guns??? 

I hadn't heard of any really recent complaints filed against him in this regard. I did hear reports that he pulled some stupid stunts in the past, including weapons charges and violent crimes, but if there were no recent complaints, the police would have no reason to be checking him out.

Regardless of this, if the cops don't know that you have a weapon, they can't take it from you. And, as observed earlier, it is unlikely that someone of this nature would be in any hurry to register a weapon.