CTV poll on spending priority

[Army Guy]

I Often wonder if the Public new just what shape our forces are in "would they change there minds, perhaps move spending on DND to a much higher priority...

Is this poll correct "what are your spending Priorities"

CTV Poll Gauges Spending Priorities

Spending on the Canadian military is the seventh highest priority of the Canadian public, according to a poll conducted by IPOS/CTV/Globe and Mail. The poll found that 27% of Canadians consider increased military spending a priority, well behind environmental funding at 34%.

[caesar]

Post the poll.

I do not think military spending is a top priority.

Health care and the environment are much higher priorities.

[Newfie Canadian]

I Often wonder if the Public new just what shape our forces are in "would they change there minds, perhaps move spending on DND to a much higher priority...

And there's the problem isn't it?

Equipment malfunctions and spending has been in the news a fair amount in the last 5-10 years, especially the Sea Kings and recently the subs.

Until the human story of the Forces is told, and repeated, the public will probably remain ambivalent. Unfortunately.

For clarity, here is the list (from CTV):

1. "Increase spending on health care" (66%) tops the list of Canadians surplus spending priorities; followed by

2. "Increase spending on post-secondary education"     (46%);

3. "Cut taxes for middle class Canadians" (45%);

4. "Reducing the Government of Canada debt" (39%);

5. "Create a new national childcare program" (39%);

6. "Increase spending on environmental issues such as the cost of implementing the Kyoto Accord" (34%); and

7. "Increase spending on Canada's military and national defence" (27%).

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Army Guy]

And there's the problem isn't it?

Equipment malfunctions and spending has been in the news a fair amount in the last 5-10 years, especially the Sea Kings and recently the subs.

Until the human story of the Forces is told, and repeated, the public will probably remain ambivalent. Unfortunately.

I don't get it...The Military, dozens of important individuals Such as the US ambassdor,many retired Gens, Pres Bush, dozens of lobby groups, other groups such as the UN, and NATO, Nations (List is very long) Have said "YOU as in CANADA" need to get your military affairs together...

Like Newfie has said it is on the news nightly ... So everyone knows or ought to know the condition on our Military...and yet we do nothing ....well almost nothing ...

27 % of us thinks it's worth spending money on....

I'm sure that all the soldiers currently serving in our Armed Forces are overwhelmed at the amount of support that this poll suggests...

Those that risk there lives on a daily basis...bringing peace around the world, helping those that are in need....i thought i was told that we soldiers we ambassdors to Canada reflecting Canada's morals and values...I guess i should have stuck with planting trees...my mistake i thought saving lives and making the world a better place was more important....

[Guest eureka]

Since environmental problems are now a bigger threat than any military issue, perhaps the people are ahead of the "important" people.

We certainly need to increase our military spending if only to protect ourselves from the hordes of potentially desperate, diplaced people who may try to come here. Read the important people who are warning about a future that may happen if we do not quickly addredd the environmental problem facing the world. Thos important people do not include North American politicians.

[Stoker]

I'm sure that all the soldiers currently serving in our Armed Forces are overwhelmed at the amount of support that this poll suggests...

Those that risk there lives on a daily basis...bringing peace around the world, helping those that are in need....i thought i was told that we soldiers we ambassdors to Canada reflecting Canada's morals and values...I guess i should have stuck with planting trees...my mistake i thought saving lives and making the world a better place was more important....

I too don't get it Army Guy.

For all the anti-Americaism and/or false Canadian nationalism which is prevalent within this country, I would think that these same people would also want to guarantee our own sovereignty, and what better way to guarantee our sovereignty then with a capable armed forces.

I admit, it's beyond my understanding.

I doubt that this view held by most Canadians will change untill we have been attacked directly by another nation state and/or terror group. Even then, something inside of me believes that the "Canadian" responce will be to stick our head even deeper into the sand.

The only other realistic result that I see happening (perhaps as a result of my above example) is a further assimilation of the "worthy parts of Canada" (ie resources) by the United States........and the sad but true fact is that there won't be a way to stop it.

It's funny, the Canadians who make the biggest deal about not being American, are most likely the ones that are sending us in the direction of becoming American.

[Newfie Canadian]

I doubt that this view held by most Canadians will change untill we have been attacked directly by another nation state and/or terror group. Even then, something inside of me believes that the "Canadian" responce will be to stick our head even deeper into the sand.

I'm not so sure Stoker.

I agree that it would take an incident to get the politicians and citizenry to open their eyes, but I think when it happens (as it is bound to eventually) you'll see 2 things happen: People will ask how it could have happened and where our Armed Forces and intelligence agency were, and a demand to keep it from happening again.

It's the sad reality of humankind. You don't know what you got until it's gone, you always think it can't happen to you until it does, and you tend not to want to get hurt again.

[Army Guy]

eureka:

If there is no major funding soon within 5 to 10 years there will be no military. Can you say the same about the enviroment.

Newfie Canadian:

What would that incident have to be. DND collapsing.

one day Canada may just wake-up and find it Military has quit and gone home.... Tired of risking thier lifes with no support from our Own country. Canada is doomed to learn the same leason it learned the hard way 3 times already, a leason that was paid for in blood of it's own Country men....all it takes to stop this is a moderate standing professional armed forces.

[Guest eureka]

Unfortunately, perhaps, yes, Army Guy. The military is important but the number one issue facing the world at this time is environmental. Could the military defend us against a few feet rise in ocean levels. That will take more than 5 to 10 years but not too much more.

[Newfie Canadian]

Tired of risking thier lifes with no support from our Own country.

I would hope you meant to say "...our own government."

What would that incident have to be.

I don't know Army Guy. It took 9/11 for the Americans to get serious about terrorism.

I agree the men and women of the Armed Forces have gotten the short end of the stick for at least 13 years. Couldn't agree more.

And I agree that 7th on a spending priority list is shameful, but it is probably indicative of a way of life that has been peaceful and uneventful in a military attack or catastrophic type of way.

[ticker]

Unfortunately, perhaps, yes, Army Guy. The military is important but the number one issue facing the world at this time is environmental. Could the military defend us against a few feet rise in ocean levels. That will take more than 5 to 10 years but not too much more.

So the number one issue is the environment.... greenhouse gases are not the same as smog. But the politicians are prepared to let the public think Kyoto will improve the environment if it will help them sell the idea.

A few years down the road when there is even more smog caused by all the plants in Ontario the citizens will be saying 'but you told us it would help the air if we went along with this Kyoto thing'

[Army Guy]

eureka:

Unfortunately, perhaps, yes, Army Guy. The military is important but the number one issue facing the world at this time is environmental. Could the military defend us against a few feet rise in ocean levels. That will take more than 5 to 10 years but not too much more.

Even for an army guy i do care about environmental issues, As i've seen mother nature when she's have a bad hair day, IE... the manatoba floods, Ice storm, forrest fires. DND has always been there for the people of Canada, and even the world most of the time.

There is not another Dept within the gov't that has the equip,or people to even attempt to handle the oceans raising a few feet...

That being said "if " the gov't acted today and gave up the many bils that could save DND would our enviroment issues be solved....would that stop the oceans from rising...

Newfie Canadian :

QUOTE

Tired of risking thier lifes with no support from our Own country.

I would hope you meant to say "...our own government."

No, i meant "Country to include most of us"....let me explain why...DND's troubles have been told on every media known to man...Every Canadian must know that DND is in sad shape...but it is not in "just" sad shape "it's in critical condition"...

DND has problems doing basic tasks keeping up with purchases of uniforms and boots...

A vast majority of Canadians know this and do nothing....

If you were in my boots and 73 % of those polled agreed that DND was not a priority for extra funding, what message would you get out of that....

Don't get me wrong i pay taxes just like you...under normal circumstances DND would place around 7 th place...but DND as a dept is not healthy at all....serveral dozens of people,groups, organizations, even nations have commented on our DND....they have told our Gov't time after time" YOU need to do something" it as happened so much now we brush it aside as an everyday comment.

DND exists to serve Canada and every Canadian. They live up to thier end of that statement and more....Can we all stand tall and say without a hesitation ...We support you 100 % by ensuring that you have the best equipment and manpower to carry out all that we ask of you. Because if we don't then we need to tell DND to stand down..go home...we don't want you risking your lifes anymore ....

the simple transfer of 2 or 4 bil is only going to prolong the long slow death of DND...either support them or tell them go home....we atleast owe them that....

[Guest eureka]

I don.t want to sidetrack your discussion, Army Guy so I will not pursue the matter. I just wanted it to be known that, just maybe, there is a priority that overrides all else.

There is. Everything else is local politics.

[Newfie Canadian]

I appreciate your position Army Guy.

My point was that the ordinary citizen can do very little, aside from showing their pride by shaking a soldier's hand or flying the flag or writing a letter, to change the government's shameful handling of our military.

Myself for example. I live nowhere near a military base.

I fly my flag, had it at half staff for the 4 brave men of the PPCLI who died in Afghanistan, for Cpl. Murphy (who is from a community about ½ an hr. from where I'm from) and for Sgt. Short and Cpl. Beerenfenger.

I wrote the troops at Christmas on the DND website.

Unfortunately, the general public, like the government, takes the men and women of the Forces for granted. But that doesn't mean that they have abandoned them, or don't support them, or appreciate them.

You're right in that pressure should be brought on the government, but that is usually seen by the general public as out of their reach.

I'm not saying it's true, and I'm not saying it's right.

[Army Guy]

Newfie Canadian:

First off , I'd like to thank you, and those Canadians who have put in the effort and supported Canada's Armed Forces. It means alot to soldiers who are away from thier families.

I think the ordinary citizen can accomplish alot. I know of military wives that are involved in large letter writing campaigns to thier MP's....it works citizens have made the difference on many issues before.

I'm not saying that DND's problems are the countries most important ones, but in there current state it should rank in the top 3.

But when it is all said and done.

Canada's soldiers will continue to serve Canadian's ....be it in new upto date equipment or on the back of a donkey....Canadain soldiers are famous for doing miracles with nothing. although it would be nice to have the equipment we need to do the job that "we" demand of our soldiers. equipment that will ensure our safety, ensure our edge over our enemies on the battle field, allowing soldiers to get back to their families in one peice....

Our Goverment needs to make the right decissions not just the popular ones...Lives are at stake...

[Newfie Canadian]

Our Goverment needs to make the right decissions not just the popular ones

Amen.

Hopefully today's budget will help.

They are saying, as of now, an additional $13 Billion over 5 years for the military.

I hope it's new money and not rehashing of previous monies and committments.

[Army Guy]

It is a great start, one i never thought i'd see under the liberals....and i don't want to sound ungrateful but it is just a start and much more will be needed in the future.

[Stoker]

Amen.

Hopefully today's budget will help.

They are saying, as of now, an additional $13 Billion over 5 years for the military.

I hope it's new money and not rehashing of previous monies and committments.

and

It is a great start, one i never thought i'd see under the liberals....and i don't want to sound ungrateful but it is just a start and much more will be needed in the future.

Have you read what the increase will look like for this year? 500 million, I believe 600 for next year no really increase intill year three.........Lew Mackienzie was on CTV and brought up the fact to Craig Oliver that he can't remeber when a Budget stayed the same over three years........

And let's say everything promise does happen, what do we get.....a small boost to the Army, at what looks like the expence of the Navy and Air Force?

Smoke and Mirrors I say

[Newfie Canadian]

Well Stoker, I don't know what to say, except of course that I agree that it could have been more.

But when I see Gen. Hillier say it's a good thing, I'll believe him, as he's a stuuborn Newfoundlander who don't seem to hold punches.

Plus, Harper seemed surprised, in a good way, in the increase in defence spending. So it couldn't have been too bad.

Like Army Guy said, it's a good start.

Maybe if Harper wins the next election he'll do better.

a small boost to the Army, at what looks like the expence of the Navy and Air Force?

I'll go a step further and say that the Army will end up getting the lion's share.

There have been reports that Ottawa will be concentrating on the Army, and the fact that the release of the Defence Review may indicate something like that happening.

[Army Guy]

Yes 9 bil of that 13 bil is to pay for commitments the liberals already agreed to...leaving 3.8 bil in new monies...for new equipment...but not for another 2 years.... But that is the liberal way of doing things...they always have an out...every budget they bring out is smoking mirrors. It clearly does not show the leadership that we were looking for.

Most of that 500 million will go to pay for Afgan and our NEW commitment there...same as the 600 million next year...DND already runs a deficet of 1.5 bil a year....and that will continue to grow every year...with 5000 more soldiers on the pay roll,it's going to get out of hand quickly....

That being said getting the liberals to spend 3.8 bil on defense is a miricle....

[Stoker]

Stoker Posted: Feb 21 2005, 12:07 PM

For all the anti-Americaism and/or false Canadian nationalism which is prevalent within this country, I would think that these same people would also want to guarantee our own sovereignty, and what better way to guarantee our sovereignty then with a capable armed forces.

And

It's funny, the Canadians who make the biggest deal about not being American, are most likely the ones that are sending us in the direction of becoming American.

I hate be a "told you so" and be so vain as to quote myself but:

The future unfolding

Paul Cellucci, the U.S. ambassador to Canada, said from now on, the U.S. will decide when to fire at incoming missiles over Canadian territory.

"We will deploy. We will defend North America," Cellucci said. "We simply cannot understand why Canada would in effect give up its sovereignty -- its seat at the table -- to decide what to do about a missile that might be coming towards Canada.''

I knew it would happen sooner or later......I just though it would happen later