"The Salvadoran Option"

[Black Dog]

Pentagon contemplating Special-Forces-led assassination or kidnapping teams in Iraq

The Pentagon is intensively debating an option that dates back to a still-secret strategy in the Reagan administration’s battle against the leftist guerrilla insurgency in El Salvador in the early 1980s. Then, faced with a losing war against Salvadoran rebels, the U.S. government funded or supported "nationalist" forces that allegedly included so-called death squads directed to hunt down and kill rebel leaders and sympathizers. Eventually the insurgency was quelled, and many U.S. conservatives consider the policy to have been a success.

One military source involved in the Pentagon debate . . . suggests that new offensive operations are needed that would create a fear of aiding the insurgency. "The Sunni population is paying no price for the support it is giving to the terrorists," he said. "From their point of view, it is cost-free. We have to change that equation."

In other words "if you can't beat the terrorists, you might as well join 'em."

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Black Dog,

For shame, that you would suggest the US might consider resorting to something 'illegal', regarding foreign policy. To the best of my knowledge, the USA has never been caught, prosecuted and convicted of such a thing. Besides, even though the US trained, funded and logistically supported the El Salvador death squads, and taught them torture methods, that is no reason to assume the US actually had a hand in any of the killings.

In Iraq, it could be just like old times. But should they pick North Korea or Iran to sell arms to, in order to fund these 'Iraqi death squads'? They can't get the money from Congress, 'cause that'd be just wrong.

[I miss Reagan]

Oh the arrogance of Canadians who have never had to fight for anything under the protective umbrella of the USA. How easy it is for self-righteous Canadians to lecture Americans how to fight a war. No surprise from those who are more worried about naked terrorists than decapitated humanitarians. Why no accountability for those on the other side who violate international war rules? Is it because your elitist ideology sees them as lower and gives them a pass? Seriously. Perhaps you would like to see them fight as the Canadian cops would on "To Serve and Protect", courteously requesting, in proper english, knife wielding suspects to kindly surender their weapons. Incredibly the countries the lead the charge against the US's 'hegemony' are the same imperialist countries such as France, Germany and Russia. Nations which glorified such leaders as Stalin, Hitler and Napoleon. Funny how we never discuss how these nations have screwed up the world. We never discuss the carpet bombing in WW2 that killed millions. (Hey that's the one war Canada was in on. How bout that.) Instead we're concerned about precision weapons in Iraq.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear I miss Reagan,

Oh the arrogance of Canadians who have never had to fight for anything under the protective umbrella of the USA.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Funny how we never discuss how these nations have screwed up the world. We never discuss the carpet bombing in WW2 that killed millions. (Hey that's the one war Canada was in on. How bout that.)

Actually, that topic has come up several times. The UK, especially, was soundly condemned for it's terrorism in targeting civilians. It isn't a real hot topic, though, since it happened over 60 years ago.

[August1991]

In other words "if you can't beat the terrorists, you might as well join 'em."

If this would solve the problem, I'd say go for it. But I don't think it will solve the problem.

Central American death squads worked because of the history of Spanish-hired thugs used to keep Indians in line. In Argentina or Chile, the opposition was naive students or union activists.

The equivalent in Iraq might be Israeli occupation of south Lebanon using SLA/Falangists to keep Hizballah/Palestinians in order. Except, there is no equivalent in Iraq.

A better comparison might be to imagine how Quebecers, Ontarians and Albertans would react if the US army moved into Canada. In Iraq, the Americans are now part of a family quarrel.

[Black Dog]

No surprise from those who are more worried about naked terrorists than decapitated humanitarians. Why no accountability for those on the other side who violate international war rules.

The actions of terrorist groups, such as blatant violations of the rules of warfare such as attacking civilians, etc., is not the subject of this discussion and is, therefore, irrelevant.

Unless you happen to belive that two wrongs DO make a right...

We never discuss the carpet bombing in WW2 that killed millions. (Hey that's the one war Canada was in on. How bout that.)

And what bearing does the actions of war criminals like "Bomber" Harris, Winston Churchill, and others of sixty-odd years ago have on this subject?

Instead we're concerned about precision weapons in Iraq.

No. We're talking about death squads. For your enlightenment, here's some handy tidbits about what happened the last time this was attempted.

On the Afternoon of 10 December 1981, units of the Atlacal Rapid Deployment Infantry Battalion (BIRI) arrived in the village of El Mozote, Department of Morazan, after a clash with the guerrillas in the vicinity . . .

Early next morning, 11 December, the soldiers reassembled the entire population in the square. They separated the men from the women and children and locked everyone up in different groups in the church, the convent and various houses.

During the morning, they proceeded to interrogate, torture and execute the men in various locations. Around noon, they began taking the women in groups, separating them from their children and machine-gunning them. Finally, they killed the children. A group of children who had been locked in the convent were machine-gunned through the windows. After exterminating the entire population, the soldiers set fire to the buildings.

-UN Truth Commission on El Salvador

The El Mozote Massacre

April 1, 1993

On Monday, 24 March 1980, the Archbishop of San Salvador, Monsignor Oscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez, was celebrating mass in the Chapel of the Hospital de la Divina Providencia when he was killed by a professional assassin who fired a single .22 or .223 calibre bullet from a red, four-door Volkswagen vehicle. The bullet hit its mark, causing the Archbishop's death from severe bleeding.

Former Major Roberto D'Aubuisson gave the order to assassinate the Archbishop and gave precise instructions to members of his security service, acting as a "death squad", to organize and supervise the assassination.

UN Truth Commission on El Salvador

Death Squad Assassinations: Archbishop Romero

April 1, 1993

One especially horrid incident from one conflict involved the rape and murder of three US Roman Catholic nuns and a lay worker by National Guard troops in El Salvador in 1980. Last week, the New York Times reported that four Salvadoran troops, serving 30-year prison terms for the crime, have implicated top commanders of the Salvadoran Army as ordering the executions . . .

A New York-based human rights group is demanding the US government investigate the incident again, to determine why a former head of the Salvadoran National Guard, Colonel Carlos Eugenio Vides Casanova, was allowed to come to the United States and settle in Florida.

-Voice of America

New Developments in the Salvadoran Nuns Murder

April 15, 1998

Rufina Amaya, 60, is the sole survivor of the [El Mozote] massacre, in which four of her five children and her husband perished. Her fingers fidget as she recalls darting from a line of women who were about to be shot, and creeping into a bush. She stayed immobile for hours, recognizing her children's voices crying ''Mamita, they're killing us!'' as they were bayoneted.

Although she has never received aid of any kind from the government, Rufina says what she really wants is for the perpetrators to ask her forgiveness. After 19 years, she holds little hope it will happen. ''Justice isn't about vengeance, it's a spiritual recognition,'' she says. ''But God is seeing all these things that they deny.''

-Business Week International Edition

A Murdered Village Comes Back to Life

March 5, 2001

[PocketRocket]

  Oh the arrogance of Canadians who have never had to fight for anything.....

Oh, the self righteous moaning of the Americans who HAVE to fight at every opportunity.

Oops, sorry, I meant "forced to fight" at every "imminent threat".

......under the protective umbrella of the USA.

Yup. Good thing we got that umbrella, cause it seems like it's starting to rain bull$h!t in here.

How easy it is for self-righteous Canadians to lecture Americans how to fight a war.

How easy it is for the short-sighted and forgetful American to blindly swallow presidential rhetoric which gets you into all these wars.

Please explain to me again why the war in Iraq was necessary???

Oh yeah, I forgot. It was an "imminent threat". Yeah. That's it. Saddam was about to invade you guys. Sorry. My humblest apologies.

No surprise from those who are more worried about naked terrorists than decapitated humanitarians.  Why no accountability for those on the other side who violate international war rules?

Well, maybe because when the terrorists murder someone, we all say "That is despicable", and no one comes on the message boards saying "No, it's not".

Unlike the American abuses. How much longer are you guys gonna keep trying to justify them??? It would be much easier to say "Hey, some of our guys screwed up. In this case we're in the wrong. Sorry." Maybe then it would all go away. But no, you'd rather say "It's okay for us to do it, because the other guys do much worse things". It's just sad, really.

But hey, since you seem to think getting stripped naked and having dogs chewing on your thighs is so much fun, why not take the whole family down to the neighbourhood pound, get naked, and rub raw hamburg all over your legs.

I'm sure you'd just love it.

Is it because your elitist ideology sees them as lower and gives them a pass?  Seriously.  Perhaps you would like to see them fight as the Canadian cops would on "To Serve and Protect",  courteously requesting, in proper english, knife wielding suspects to kindly surender their weapons.

Your wording seems to leave some doubt as to who "they" are that you're referring to. The terrorists???

If so, I'm sure we'd ALL like for them to fight that way.

Incredibly the countries the lead the charge against the US's 'hegemony' are the same imperialist countries such as France, Germany and Russia.......

Not to mention a fairly large segment of the population of the USA.

Perhaps you've heard of some of the protests, and maybe checked out some American political forums.

If not, then you should. Any anti-war sentiment I've read on this site pales by comparison to what some of you're own countrymen are saying.

......Nations which glorified such leaders as Stalin, Hitler and Napoleon.

And Reagan. Gee. I miss him. Don't you???

  Funny how we never discuss how these nations have screwed up the world.  We never discuss the carpet bombing in WW2 that killed millions.  (Hey that's the one war Canada was in on.  How bout that.)  Instead we're concerned about precision weapons in Iraq.

Yeah, Canada was in on WWII. A war that truly NEEDED to be fought.

The Second World War. Did you get that??? WORLD War.

The last war that everyone needed to get involved with.

But you're right in saying that we don't race to jump into every regional war that raises it's head. We also don't go around creating wars when there are none currently going on that serve our purpose.

As for the "precision weapon" comment, that has already been addressed and shot down in flames

[losiguy]

beans

[Black Dog]

Sounds like a good Idea to me.

Would you like to personally knife-rape the nuns or do you just like to watch?

[losiguy]

wasabi

[Black Dog]

I would not like to do or watch that. thats why you get the Iraqis to do it. Its pretty obvious that they are doing it anyways. might as well point them in the right direction. As long as it saves american lives it sounds like a good idea.

Well, as vile as your views are, I at least respect your honsety. Unlike others who continue to parrot the Bush line that this is about freedom for Iraqis, you make no bones about admitting that that Americans are the only one's that matter.

[losiguy]

n

[Black Dog]

I wouldn't exactly say my views are vile, I mean no matter what someones going to die, right now american troops are dieing when it should be the iraqi's.

So your saying the people who's country was invaded on false pretenses deserve death more than the invaders? I'd call that vile. In fact, I don't know if vile quite cover sit.

The reason America went to war was for wmds and the whole freedom thing is to try to quiet the liberals and other countires.

What WMD?