paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) I don't know why you Canadians/European liberal snowflakes are so anti-Military Industrial Complex. It's not like they're trying to start wars, War only start because people in leadership position failed to do their job of negotiating with one another. If anything the MIC are like peace keepers around the world.Start buying American defense product, it'll save you money in the long run, we have to integrate our services to make a more lethal force. If you want to sell us military equipment then start producing some. You're not going to do it by under funding your own MIC. Looks like the Kiwi are finally getting it. "New Zealand announced a $1.6 billion purchase of US military aircraft on Monday as it seeks to integrate its forces with US and Australian allies that are trying to counter a Chinese military buildup in the Pacific." https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/09/asia/new-zealand-military-aircraft-china-intl/index.html Edited July 9, 2018 by paxrom Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, paxrom said: I don't know why you Canadians/European liberal snowflakes are so anti-Military Industrial Complex. ...but they love to get jobs from U.S. defence subcontractors, especially in Canada (Quebec/Ontario). Praise the Lord...and pass the ammunition. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ...but they love to get jobs from U.S. defence subcontractors, especially in Canada (Quebec/Ontario). probably part of the negotiation in selling our stuff to them. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, paxrom said: probably part of the negotiation in selling our stuff to them. No doubt they would flip out if employers like General Dynamics Land Systems (American owned) pulled up stakes and went back to the states for Trump tax breaks. Hate 'murica...love the 'murican economy !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, paxrom said: I don't know why you Canadians/European liberal snowflakes are so anti-Military Industrial Complex. For much the same reason Dwight D. Eisenhower was. I can't help but note how much the business of influencing the government not to mention the business of being influenced, concerned Eisenhower. Its pretty sad how deeply rooted and successful the model has served other industries - like the judicial industrial complex of prosecutors, judges, lawyers and the largest penal system on the planet. Edited July 10, 2018 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, eyeball said: For much the same reason Dwight D. Eisenhower was. Actually, Eisenhower presided over the largest post-WW2 increases in U.S. defense spending, mostly for the Cold War...talk is cheap....weapons are not. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Actually, Eisenhower presided over the largest post-WW2 increases in U.S. defense spending, mostly for the Cold War...talk is cheap....weapons are not. Actually that's right but it has nothing to do with what I said or what he was concerned about. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, eyeball said: Actually that's right but it has nothing to do with what I said or what he was concerned about. I don't care what he was concerned about...only with what he actually did as POTUS. Talk is cheap. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I don't care what he was concerned about...only with what he actually did as POTUS. Yes and what he actually did as POTUS was warn against the military-industrial complex. Quote Talk is cheap. Are you suggesting he was a snowflake? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Yes and what he actually did as POTUS was warn against the military-industrial complex. Are you suggesting he was a snowflake? When Ike had the power to curtail defense spending, he did the exact opposite. Ike was no snowflake....hated commies like a good American should. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Ike was no snowflake....hated commies like a good American should. He hated greedy military industrialists and influence peddling politicians that climbed into bed with them. Ergo Ike WAS a commie. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, eyeball said: He hated greedy military industrialists and influence peddling politicians that climbed into bed with them. Ergo Ike WAS a commie. Doesn't matter...Ike was yet another American president with the power to dominate the Canadian psyche...just like all the rest. Right now it is Trump, and he is driving Canada nuts ! Edited July 10, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Doesn't matter...Ike was yet another American president blah blah blah... What matters, especially given Eisenhower's position and capacity to arm and in the context of this thread, is that he warned against the MIC. Are you suggesting that's fake history and he actually didn't warn against it all? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, eyeball said: What matters, especially given Eisenhower's position and capacity to arm and in the context of this thread, is that he warned against the MIC. Are you suggesting that's fake history and he actually didn't warn against it all? No, I'm suggesting that he warned about the very things that he continued to support, before, during, and after his presidency. Another American hero for the Canadian psyche ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Doesn't matter...Ike was yet another American president with the power to dominate the Canadian psyche...just like all the rest. Right now it is Trump, and he is driving Canada nuts ! The Trump populist movement already started to seep it's way into Canada and Europe, looking at the political upheaval is making me weep with tears of freedom. America is kicking the commie liberals out of power. 1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, paxrom said: The Trump populist movement already started to seep it's way into Canada and Europe, looking at the political upheaval is making me weep with tears of freedom. America is kicking the commie liberals out of power. Agreed...lots of fun to watch them squirm. They will fight back by boycotting Heinz ketchup...again. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: No, I'm suggesting that he warned about the very things that he continued to support, before, during, and after his presidency. He supported the business of peddling influence before, during and after his presidency? Quote Another American hero for the Canadian psyche ? No, just another two-faced full-of-shit American, if the way you portray him is anything to go by. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, eyeball said: He supported the business of peddling influence before, during and after his presidency? No, just another two-faced full-of-shit American, if the way you portray him is anything to go by. But I don't see how much of what Eisenhower advocated for(be cautious of the mentality, use it or lose it, to financially support industry) has anything to do with your lack of support for your own military, as some vets on this forum pointed out, you're putting their lives in jeopardy because of some misguided belief that you shouldn't spend money on the MIC. Eisenhower would turn over in his grave had he seen how his word would be interpreted to the detriment of fellow service members. 2 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: He supported the business of peddling influence before, during and after his presidency? Yes...he did. They even named a super-carrier after him: Quote No, just another two-faced full-of-shit American, if the way you portray him is anything to go by. For all those "murica" and "murican" hating Canadians, President Trump is just giving them a better reason. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, paxrom said: But I don't see how much of what Eisenhower advocated for(be cautious of the mentality, use it or lose it, to financially support industry) has anything to do with your lack of support for your own military, as some vets on this forum pointed out, you're putting their lives in jeopardy because of some misguided belief that you shouldn't spend money on the MIC. Eisenhower would turn over in his grave had he seen how his word would be interpreted to the detriment of fellow service members. It's not good reasoning, but so typically Canadian to rail against American military spending while using yet another American to rationalize their thinking (erroneously). Such is the foundation of the anti-American neurosis....the gift that keeps on giving. Tonight they flipped out over Trump's SC justice nominee, as if it matters to Canada ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It's not good reasoning, but so typically Canadian to rail against American military spending while using yet another American to rationalize their thinking (erroneously). Such is the foundation of the anti-American neurosis....the gift that keeps on giving. Tonight they flipped out over Trump's SC justice nominee, as if it matters to Canada ! Could any Canadian member on this forum record their outrage and send it to me? I will die happy. Edited July 10, 2018 by paxrom Quote
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, paxrom said: But I don't see how much of what Eisenhower advocated for(be cautious of the mentality, use it or lose it, to financially support industry) has anything to do with your lack of support for your own military... You said our lack of support for our own military industrial complex. A military industrial complex and a military are two completely different things. And, advocate for is not the same as warn against. Edited July 10, 2018 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, eyeball said: You said our lack of support for our own military industrial complex. A military industrial complex and a military are two completely different things. And, advocate for is not the same as warn against. the MIC supports the military, that was my point, how can you support one without the other?????????????????????????????????????????????? The MIC build equipment, provide training, logistical support etc etc... Quote
eyeball Posted July 10, 2018 Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, paxrom said: the MIC supports the military, It supports itself. Quote that was my point, how can you support one without the other?????????????????????????????????????????????? The MIC build equipment, provide training, logistical support etc etc... By distinguishing the difference between them. Your point, at the moment apparently, is to conflate them. The MIC makes a few people putrescently wealthy and ridiculously powerful. You don't need what Eisenhower warned against to provide equipment, training logistical support etc etc... Edited July 10, 2018 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: It supports it self first. By distinguishing the difference between them. Your point, at the moment apparently, is to conflate them. The MIC makes a few people putrescently wealthy and ridiculously powerful. You don't need what Eisenhower warned against to provide equipment, training logistical support etc etc... So are you suggesting soldiers be require to learn all the necessary trade, skill and knowledge to be able to make their own equipment? What are you suggesting exactly? The MIC and the Military goes hand in hand. Unless you want to equip them with nothing but idealism. You're not addresing the point, if you want to talk about the ethics of giving preferential government contract to one company that's one thing but to not fund your MIC entirely is a whole different issue. One in which Canadians like your self seems to "conflate". Your troops needs tanks, ships, missiles, helicopters.... how are you going to provide that without paying somebody called the MIC???? Pay American MIC? who? Edited July 10, 2018 by paxrom Quote
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