betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) Catherine Elliott refuses to concede. With just a few months before the provincial election - this isn't good. True, there has been some irregularities, However: Quote However, Lefton said later Saturday that the party's chief electoral officer determined that the issue was not statistically significant enough to change the outcome of the race. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-progressive-conservatives-pcs-new-leader-election-1.4571014 I tend to take the word of the electoral officer. Elliot has to take into account that she has failed to win the leadership in 3 races now..... .........whereas Doug Ford came in strong second to Tory at the last mayoral election despite the fact that he came to the race quite late in the game. That says something for the popularity of Doug Ford. Note: I was trying to create a poll for this, but unable to. Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) From what I understand, Elliott is claiming significant irregularities with voting. She seems to be implying that votes were assigned to the wrong ridings. That of course could affect the outcome according to the rules. As I understand it, the party leadership has decided for Ford. The only recourse Elliott has is to go to court. Edited March 11, 2018 by ?Impact Quote
betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, ?Impact said: From what I understand, Elliott is claiming significant irregularities with voting. She seems to be implying that votes were assigned to the wrong ridings. That of course could affect the outcome according to the rules. As I understand it, the party leadership has decided for Ford. The only recourse Elliott has is to go to court. Time is of the essence. Going to court will drag it out. I think, Elliot should just concede. Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, betsy said: I think, Elliot should just concede. Party above principal? Quote
betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Party above principal? The Party's.....and Ontarians! 80% want the Liberals gone! Isn't the principle, the Party comes first? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? Look at Sanders as an example - he just swallowed the corruption and unfairness, even after he knew the favors were stacked on Hillary - he was cheated by his own party! Why? So, they'll be united going against the Republicans. Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, betsy said: Isn't the principle, the Party comes first? Only to partisans. I think voting irregularities are very important, but a partisan would think that voting irregularities show initiative. Quote
betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Only to partisans. I think voting irregularities are very important, but a partisan would think that voting irregularities show initiative. Like the Democrats! As I've pointed out to Bernie Sanders as the latest example. That wasn't merely a suspicion - there was a leaked email that proved it! Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) They should re-think electronic voting. Let's just go back to the good old booth with the pencil and ballot. Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, betsy said: Like the Democrats! As I've pointed out to Bernie Sanders as the latest example. As I said partisans. Quote
betsy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, ?Impact said: As I said partisans. What exactly do you mean? Aren't all Dem members partisans - otherwise, they wouldn't be members? Edited March 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, betsy said: They should re-thunk electroonic voting. Let's just go back to the good old pencil and paper. Lots of problems with good old paper and pencil. Took us many iterations to reduce ballot box stuffing. Electronic voting will also take time to work out kinks, but it does offer many advantages as well. Quote
Queenmandy85 Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) Actually, they should return to delegated conventions. They were a lot more fun and better for the parties. The conventions gave the parties more exposure. Elliott should have conceded immediately. Drawing it out, reflects on her character and costs her any influence she would have had in caucus. Nobody likes a sore loser. Edited March 11, 2018 by Queenmandy85 2 Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said: Actually, they should return to delegated conventions. They were a lot more fun and better for the parties. Provincial delegate conventions make a lot of sense for the most part. Ontario is the only possible exception as you can't easily get across the province in a few hours. At the federal level, they really restrict participation. Quote
Queenmandy85 Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Provincial delegate conventions make a lot of sense for the most part. Ontario is the only possible exception as you can't easily get across the province in a few hours. At the federal level, they really restrict participation. How so? You go to the riding association meeting to nominate delegates. You can run to be a delegate. Even if you are unsuccessful, you can still go to the convention as an observer and work for your candidate. I worked for Joe Clark at the 1983 convention. I had a beer with George Hees, danced with Flora MacDonald, toured Ottawa with Allan McKinnon and got to hug Maureen McTeer. It is not whether you win or lose, it is how you play the game. Democracy depends on not taking politics too seriously. Politics is a participation sport. If you don't campaign, you can't complain. 2 Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
?Impact Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said: How so? ... Politics is a participation sport. I agree politics is a participation sport. My only problem, as I thought I stated above, is the convention. I agree that taking a weekend off every few years to participate is not a big burden, the travel however is. In some provinces you can get to it from anywhere in an hour or less, in others maybe 2-3 hours. For many in Ontario however it could easily be 12+ hours each way. In Quebec there is a relatively small population that might be a very long time as well. I forgot about Newfoundland, there are many people* in Labrador (one part of the country I have yet to travel to). For national conventions it becomes very difficult for the majority. *I am having problems finding out population of Labrador as a whole. My estimate is 50k or about 10% of the entire province. Edited March 11, 2018 by ?Impact Quote
scribblet Posted March 11, 2018 Report Posted March 11, 2018 Says here she's conceded, if so she's done the right thing. I voted for Elliot so If the election were not this year I'd say go for it but Ontario can't afford another Wynne/Liberal gov't so it's imperative to move forward. Hartley Lefton's credibility and ethics are above reproach but he took on the worse no-win scenario doing the best he could for the membership; another guy Dave Forestell worked his butt off too. I'm sure there would have been fewer problems without the time constraints so I give them credit, and to Elliot for doing what's best for the Province (and the party) The business with the riding ballots was due to the fact that some ridings share the same postal code, a stupid error on someone's part but given the short period of time they had to get things done no surprise I guess. Maybe we should go back to the delegate process. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-christine-elliott-meeting-1.4571798 1 Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
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