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Consumers' Gripes.....etc.,


betsy

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It's the consumers who'd lost when North American companies moved their productions overseas for cheap labor.  I don't know how many of you could tell the difference now in most of the well-known brands.  From canned food to under wear to pet food to appliances........a lot of them had gone downhill.     The sad part is that, there's hardly any competition for these sorry lot. 

 

I look forward to seeing a lot of Made in Canada, and Made in the USA products.  Some products made in Europe have good quality, too.  Bringing back quality products, is among those that I hope for with Trump's job-creation policy.  I've been looking at labels - if a company says "Imported by" or "Made for...," and they don't bother naming the country it came from, or who made it, I don't bother. 

 

Btw, I shop at the Dollar Tree for their Nissin's Cup-O-Noodles (made in the USA), which isn't carried by any of the big-name grocery stores in my location.  They carry all these brands that are all made in China......and yet, no Nissin's.

 

That's my gripe for today. 

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10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, you are paying lower prices for said goods also, you do realize that right ?  

 

 

Yes, and it shows you usually get what you pay for.  They make you think you're getting a good deal, when you're not. 

 

I lament the lack of competitions from other countries, especially countries that are not third-world.

 

  I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for quality.  When you end up having to replace stuffs that normally should last you quite longer - you're not getting a "lower" price when you consider the cost, and the inconvenience.

Edited by betsy
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5 minutes ago, betsy said:

 1) I lament the lack of competitions from other countries, especially countries that are not third-world.

 

 2) I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for quality.  When you end up having to replace stuffs that normally should last you quite longer - you're not getting a "lower" price when you consider the cost, and the inconvenience.

1) They can't compete on price, unless they're using a high degree of automation.

2) If you are telling the truth... the truth about that micro-moment in the store when your eyes flit across a score of brands and prices and you make your decision... then you are in the minority.  How many times have I heard left-of-centres say "I refuse to shop at WalMart because they don't pay XYZ fairly".   It doesn't work, though.  That's why I support globalized trade: charity and magnanimous action doesn't work.  Commerce should come first, then build social improvements (if any) on those relationships.

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The notion that North American means quality and Asian means cheaply made junk is outdated.

At this point it's our robots vs their robots, and their robots are better. Asian industries have invested billions of dollars into the best manufacturing technology available, and the mom-and-pop manufacturing facilities in North America can't compete.  Foxconn didn't get to be Apple's contract manufacturer by sucking.  The giant semiconductor foundries in Asia have no North American competition who can build to the same specifications.

Several years ago I saw a TV show that explored a massive shipyard in South Korea, owned by Hyundai.  Hyundai... tiny cars, huge ships. They could draw up a design on a computer, and giant computer-controlled cranes maneuver the steel into place, accurate to millimeters, and robots weld everything together as fast as the cranes can move it into position. This was apparently cutting-edge at the time. North American shipyards simply didn't have the ability to build this quickly or this precisely.  Why did South Korea have this capability when North America didn't? Because Hyundai invested in it.

For many years, the brand "Lucky Goldstar" was synonymous with cheap foreign junk. My first VCR was a Lucky Goldstar. It sucked. It was a piece of garbage.  Lucky Goldstar knew as much, and they priced it as such.  They just kept building cheaply made junk... until they got good at it.  Nowadays "Lucky Goldstar" is "LG Electronics", and instead of cheaply made junk they build high quality products.  While they were building cheap crap, they were also building their industrial capabilities, and building their expertise, and investing in engineering and technological advance. Now they're as good as any of their competitors.  Hyundai went on much the same path.  Hyundai started off building those crappy Hyundai Pony cars that were disastrous lemons, but they kept improving their capabilities, and they don't build lemons anymore.

It's wrong to assume that North American manufacturers would just jump back into the industry and be at the top of the game because we're North American. LG and Hyundai got to where they are by going through the process of doing and learning and reinvesting. North American companies have, in large measure, not been "doing" when it comes to manufacturing, they have been contracting out. If they start "doing" on their own, they will be starting at the "Lucky Goldstar" and "Hyundai Pony" stage of the game, not the "LG Electronics" and "Hyundai Genesis" stage.

My Carhartt jeans-- the toughest pants I've ever owned-- are Hecho En Mexico. What makes them tough? Ultra-heavy cotton, triple-stitched seams, steel rivets, everything is designed for durability. It's the design, not the location of manufacture that makes them tough. They have triple-stitched seams because that's how Carhartt designed them. They have super-heavy gauge cotton because that's what Carhartt specified. The notion that if these pants had been made in Canada or the USA they would be even tougher is quite silly, because they'd still be made to the same design using the same materials.

A lot of the difference between "brand name" merchandise and off-brand competitors is just quality control. Kershaw builds some of their models of knives in China...  the design is Kershaw's, the steel is to Kershaw specifications, and the quality control is performed by Kershaw, but the machining and assembly is done at a factory in China.  I have a couple of knives that I bought from an off-brand Chinese manufacturer. These knives are built in the same factory using the same parts but they don't say Kershaw on them. I've had the real thing in my hands, and literally the only difference between the real knives and my clones is that the clones don't include the patented spring-assist opening mechanism. Other than that, they're identical. And extremely good. The only difference, aside from the spring-assist and the name on the package is that the genuine Kershaw article cost $50-$60 apiece and my clones cost $8 and $9 apiece.  I guess I am missing out on the experience of having a Genuine Kershaw in my pocket, but instead I get to enjoy the experience of having an extra $50 in my pocket.

 -k

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2 hours ago, kimmy said:

The notion that North American means quality and Asian means cheaply made junk is outdated.

At this point it's our robots vs their robots, and their robots are better. Asian industries have invested billions of dollars into the best manufacturing technology available, and the mom-and-pop manufacturing facilities in North America can't compete.  Foxconn didn't get to be Apple's contract manufacturer by sucking.  The giant semiconductor foundries in Asia have no North American competition who can build to the same specifications.

Actually, Intel remains one of the world's leading producers of cutting edge semiconductors and many of their most advances fabs are in the US. 

Quote

North American shipyards simply didn't have the ability to build this quickly or this precisely.  Why did South Korea have this capability when North America didn't? Because Hyundai invested in it.

While South Korean industry is impressive, many of the world's most advanced ships are built in the US. 

Quote

North American companies have, in large measure, not been "doing" when it comes to manufacturing, they have been contracting out.

This is a common misconception. US manufacturing output has been on a continuous rise, it's never declined. While many US companies invest in overseas factories or third-party production, they've also continued to increase domestic manufacturing capabilities. The number of people employed in manufacturing has been reduced, but that's a result of improvements in processes and automation, not a reduction in manufacturing.

mfg1.jpg

Edited by Bonam
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16 hours ago, kimmy said:

The notion that North American means quality and Asian means cheaply made junk is outdated.

 

 

I don't go by notion.   I go by what I experience. 

 

Furthermore, I'm not saying all Asian-made products are cheaply-made junk, or poor in quality.  But I do want to know what country manufactures or make products for companies.

I bought a pack of Fruit of the Loom underwear, and they're poor in quality.  They're sewn crooked.  So ever since, I open up the pack right in the store to inspect them before I buy.  Saves me an extra trip to return and refund.  BUT, why do I have to do the quality-checking???

Edited by betsy
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On 3/12/2017 at 4:44 AM, betsy said:

It's the consumers who'd lost when North American companies moved their productions overseas for cheap labor.  I don't know how many of you could tell the difference now in most of the well-known brands.  From canned food to under wear to pet food to appliances........a lot of them had gone downhill.     The sad part is that, there's hardly any competition for these sorry lot. 

 

I look forward to seeing a lot of Made in Canada, and Made in the USA products.  Some products made in Europe have good quality, too.  Bringing back quality products, is among those that I hope for with Trump's job-creation policy.  I've been looking at labels - if a company says "Imported by" or "Made for...," and they don't bother naming the country it came from, or who made it, I don't bother. 

 

Btw, I shop at the Dollar Tree for their Nissin's Cup-O-Noodles (made in the USA), which isn't carried by any of the big-name grocery stores in my location.  They carry all these brands that are all made in China......and yet, no Nissin's.

 

That's my gripe for today. 

Here's the worlds smallest violin playing "f^%k you" to North American consumers. They voted for this with their wallets. In a free market the ONLY control over activity is patronage... Consumer ethics.  You reward the behaviors you like with patronage. We have no ethics at all. Canadians would gladly buy stuff made by children locked up in a pedophiles basement that spend the time between their 16 hour shifts getting raped.... if it meant them getting the best deal. They deserve stagnant wages... they volunteered by rewarding producers that treat workers like cattle. They deserve toys that make their children sick. They deserve drywall that makes the installers ill and causes the home to smell terrible because chinese producers didnt remove toxic contaminates, and sulphur from synthetic gypsum. They deserve to walk on imported laminate flooring thats linked to cancer because its full of formaldehyde.

None of this stuff could happen to a nicer, more deserving bunch of folks.

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On 3/12/2017 at 1:06 PM, Bonam said:

Actually, Intel remains one of the world's leading producers of cutting edge semiconductors and many of their most advances fabs are in the US. 

While South Korean industry is impressive, many of the world's most advanced ships are built in the US. 

This is a common misconception. US manufacturing output has been on a continuous rise, it's never declined. While many US companies invest in overseas factories or third-party production, they've also continued to increase domestic manufacturing capabilities. The number of people employed in manufacturing has been reduced, but that's a result of improvements in processes and automation, not a reduction in manufacturing.

mfg1.jpg

I would be curious to know how much of that manufacturing is even in the US, and employs Americans. How much of it is just on the books of US companies that have offshore their operations but still keep their head office in the US, or companies that just provide shit jobs assembling products with imported parts?

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1 hour ago, dre said:

I would be curious to know how much of that manufacturing is even in the US, and employs Americans. How much of it is just on the books of US companies that have offshore their operations but still keep their head office in the US, or companies that just provide shit jobs assembling products with imported parts?

Not gonna dig it up now but every time I've looked into this in the past, as far as I could tell, the real amount of stuff really manufactured in the US by reasonable definitions has been going up, not down.

Keep in mind, although the value of manufactured goods in that graph has gone up by a factor of 5 over 70 years, the economy has grown by a factor of 10 over that same time. So as a share of the economy, manufacturing has been cut in half. That contributes to the sense that manufacturing is on the decline (as does the drop in the number of manufacturing jobs). But overall, more stuff is really being made. 

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