Residential Schools........ and fake info!

[eyeball]

I'm talking about nationalism. You laugh because you never get it. If you did you'd realize its not a laughing matter.

[Accountability Now]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm talking about nationalism. You laugh because you never get it. If you did you'd realize its not a laughing matter.

I'm all for nationalism but your Earthling thing is comical. 

[eyeball]

Well then you should have no complaints when native people start talking about nationalism.

A few native people I've mentioned the Earthling thing to don't laugh at all. They don't like what it implies one little bit.

[Accountability Now]

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well then you should have no complaints when native people start talking about nationalism.

A few native people I've mentioned the Earthling thing to don't laugh at all. They don't like what it implies one little bit.

Start talking about it??? They have been talking about it forever and nothing. Natives talk about being nations until the idea of being totally self sufficient comes into play. I have zero concerns about natives drive for nationalism. 

[eyeball]

Just now, Accountability Now said:

Start talking about it??? They have been talking about it forever and nothing. Natives talk about being nations until the idea of being totally self sufficient comes into play. I have zero concerns about natives drive for nationalism. 

I guess that explains why you're so obsessed with preventing native nationalism while promoting your own.

It should go without saying my lack of concern for nationalism is universal.  Nations waste a lot of time talking about shit that never happens too.

[Accountability Now]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I guess that explains why you're so obsessed with preventing native nationalism while promoting your own.

Natives did away with their own nationalism many years ago. They are entitled to have it back anytime they want much like Quebec or Cascadia or any other group that wants to separate. However much like those other groups, there is just too much to gain by sticking with us rotten Canucks! So no...I don't have to worry about preventing anything. What Canada does need to worry about is finalizing the transition of First Nations into Canada and do away with the reserve system 

 

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nations waste a lot of time talking about shit that never happens too.

 Its not nearly the same amount of time that you waste talking about your Earthling philosophy which will certainly not happen.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

Natives did away with their own nationalism many years ago.

That flies in a pretty big face where live.

Quote

They are entitled to have it back anytime they want much like Quebec or Cascadia or any other group that wants to separate. However much like those other groups, there is just too much to gain by sticking with us rotten Canucks! So no...I don't have to worry about preventing anything. What Canada does need to worry about is finalizing the transition of First Nations into Canada and do away with the reserve system

Around here they're replacing reserves with territories that are just about big enough to be countries.

Quote

Its not nearly the same amount of time that you waste talking about your Earthling philosophy which will certainly not happen.

It'll happen when opportunity is based on territoriality and the ability to influence that territory's government.  As opportunities wane, see priority access rules in fisheries management for example, people will have to appeal to the more fundamental and universal right they possess as human beings, aka, Earthlings, to hang onto those opportunities.

As it stands now in my region First Nations governments are not required to consult with local non-native governments about developing their own lands or resources but non-native municipal and regional district governments must consult local FN governments no matter what.

I'm predicting not philosophizing.  

[Accountability Now]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That flies in a pretty big face where live.

Yes there are some that still believe they are real nations because the word is in their description. Some even have passports...and some of those even tried to use them once. Despite what they think, they are not nations recognized as such. They can be but they won't.

 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Around here they're replacing reserves with territories that are just about big enough to be countries.

Citation request please.

 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

 

It'll happen when opportunity is based on territoriality and the ability to influence that territory's government.  As opportunities wane, see priority access rules in fisheries management for example, people will have to appeal to the more fundamental and universal right they possess as human beings, aka, Earthlings, to hang onto those opportunities.

The only territory that matters in the end is Canada. The government will continue to give to the 'poor Indian' as long as the status quo remains that Canada has the overall advantage which has been and will be a large advantage.  If that changes then another shift will happen back to Canada's favor. Laws will be made and people will vote in governments that will promote Canada. You think that sort of nationalism can't happen here? The natives do...that's why they push, then retreat....push, then retreat. They know how to get what they want but not piss too many people off

[eyeball]

 

37 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Yes there are some that still believe they are real nations because the word is in their description. Some even have passports...and some of those even tried to use them once. Despite what they think, they are not nations recognized as such. They can be but they won't.

 

Citation request please.

http://www.bctreaty.ca/sites/default/files/NTC_SOI_Map.pdf

 

Quote

The only territory that matters in the end is Canada. The government will continue to give to the 'poor Indian' as long as the status quo remains that Canada has the overall advantage which has been and will be a large advantage.  If that changes then another shift will happen back to Canada's favor. Laws will be made and people will vote in governments that will promote Canada. You think that sort of nationalism can't happen here? The natives do...that's why they push, then retreat....push, then retreat. They know how to get what they want but not piss too many people off

The legally established right of priority access based on territoriality will nonetheless prevail. This is a fact of life here where I live in the face of waning resources and attenuated opportunity.

I fail to see why I should just shrug off the implications of what that presages in a world of shrinking opportunities.

I have no doubt governments will have a keen eye to the advantages of doling out or with-holding permission to partake in opportunity. We live in exceedingly interesting times.

[Accountability Now]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

http://www.bctreaty.ca/sites/default/files/NTC_SOI_Map.pdf

This example in particular is not final, rather it is at Stage 4 of the treaty process where the bulk of the negotiations begin. I would assume they negotiate in the manner where they come out asking for high and settle lower? Considering they made this amended Statement of Intent 13 years ago, I would assume this isn't exactly a slam dunk that they will get it. Of the finalized treaties that I saw, most had land sizes of a few thousand to ten thousand hectares. The Maa' Nulth seemed to be considerable chunk at 24,500 ha but I seriously doubt any of these would start up their own country especially considering all of the agreements have an expropriation clause for Canada to take lands back under certain conditions. I assume those conditions would be quickly met if leaving was planned. 

On a side note, I was fishing up in Tahsis a few years back and noticed that of the 20 or so houses that I saw in town, about half were for sale. Was this due to the economy or due to the negotiations happening?

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

The legally established right of priority access based on territoriality will nonetheless prevail. This is a fact of life here where I live in the face of waning resources and attenuated opportunity.

I fail to see why I should just shrug off the implications of what that presages in a world of shrinking opportunities.

I have no doubt governments will have a keen eye to the advantages of doling out or with-holding permission to partake in opportunity. We live in exceedingly interesting times.

I'm really not following what you are saying here. Are you stating that the First Nations are the ones being given the opportunities and that the government is to blame for your lack of opportunity? I know you have commented in the past on how the Feds had messed up the local fisheries. Is this what you mean? 

[hot enough]

This is akin to the Jews dealing with a still in power, still running the death camps Hitler Nazi government.

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

On a side note, I was fishing up in Tahsis a few years back and noticed that of the 20 or so houses that I saw in town, about half were for sale. Was this due to the economy or due to the negotiations happening?

 

Mostly due to the disappearance of the commercial salmon fishing.

 

I'm really not following what you are saying here. Are you stating that the First Nations are the ones being given the opportunities and that the government is to blame for your lack of opportunity? I know you have commented in the past on how the Feds had messed up the local fisheries. Is this what you mean? 

No, that's a different issue.  In the case of native fishing rights priority access means exactly that. Native involvement in the fishery has grown due to licence buybacks and as their catch effort and levels increase and more fish is required to meet their need allocations to everyone else shrinks. That's DFO's court ordered mandate.

Why shouldn't the legal principle of priority access extend to other resources and eventually to any gainful employment within a territory?

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, hot enough said:

This is akin to the Jews dealing with a still in power, still running the death camps Hitler Nazi government.

Reductio ad nauseum.

[Accountability Now]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, that's a different issue.  In the case of native fishing rights priority access means exactly that. Native involvement in the fishery has grown due to licence buybacks and as their catch effort and levels increase and more fish is required to meet their need allocations to everyone else shrinks. That's DFO's court ordered mandate.

I will admit, the treaty and native issue in BC is unlike anywhere else in Canada and as such brings in things that make it more difficult. I trust the Feds walk a fine line with things like commercial fishing as there is a sustainability factor but on the other side, any limitations imposed on natives would cause an issue. Personally, I still hold strong on the fact that we are all Canadian and rules put forth on a national level need to apply to all especially when the issue pertains to a multi jurisdictional event such as fishing. 

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

I will admit, the treaty and native issue in BC is unlike anywhere else in Canada and as such brings in things that make it more difficult. I trust the Feds walk a fine line with things like commercial fishing as there is a sustainability factor but on the other side, any limitations imposed on natives would cause an issue. Personally, I still hold strong on the fact that we are all Canadian and rules put forth on a national level need to apply to all especially when the issue pertains to a multi jurisdictional event such as fishing. 

Good luck with that, I think our government will do what its always done when it comes to allocating opportunity and default to favouring wealth and power over everyone else. Fish are worth a lot of money because they are becoming scarcer. Priority access, for somebody, will persist in the face of other dwindling resources and as they increase in value so to will the opportunity to avail yourself of that wealth. The opportunity to do so will go to those who wield the most influence.

When the only justifications for limiting opportunity are racial, territorial, environmental or economic those people who are left out will have no choice but to appeal to a higher principle - like a universal human right that transcends a nations rights.

Human beings have the right to sustain themselves from the resources that surround them. Its easy enough to limit that right when there are plenty of other resources to go around but that's not the reality we live in anymore.

When the waterhole gets smaller there is only one way forward, apparently.