ticker Posted December 10, 2004 Report Posted December 10, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin without MS this forum would be dead. look who starts all the threads... ignore the arguing or the replies to himself. Quote
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 Anything we can do to prevent another incident like what happened 15 years ago at the U of Mtl I support.Really? Well, if we force men and women to live on different continents that would help prevent another such incident. I presume you support that, as well?And the parents of the people who were killed support it too, combined with the police, so that is good enough for me.Ignorant people and politicised police chiefs will support anything. The rank and file don't think much of the gun registry. I dare you to find a cop anywhere who wouldn't rather have seen that money spent on real policing rather than an idiotic gun registry which accomplishes nothing.A lot of folks here have been listening to too many NRA cartoons. Even the NRA - an organization I've never liked much - makes more sense on this issue than you do. Your arguments are cartoonish in and of themselves. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin without MS this forum would be dead. look who starts all the threads... ignore the arguing or the replies to himself. Oh please. MS and his often simplistic arguments are hardly the centrepiece of these groups. There are plenty of left-leaning and right leaning people willing to argue - er discuss issues intelligently. MS is active, I'll grant you that, but quantity is no substitute for quality. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 So what is going to be achieved here? We are talking about money. People don't like paying taxes of fees, but we are not talking about a toy. Guns kill people. and no one is taking away the guns from law-abiding citizens as far as I know. At one time you didn't have to wear helmut to ride a bike, but now you do, or you will be fined. For whatever reason, we have spent too much on the gun registry in the past. I would hope now that the costs will be better controlled in the future. But as we have the registry, there is, I presume, some grace period for those who wish to register their guns, and then eventually the law will be enforced. Part of the problem with this issue is the state of the jails or pens. Canada already incarcerates too many people, and yet we need to be putting people away for extended periods who commit violent acts. Why are our prisons so full? Are we putting the wrong type of people in jail? What can we do to reduce the prison population without resorting to capital punishment? If people keep complaining, maybe guns will be totally banned for civilians in Canada. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 But as we have the registry, there is, I presume, some grace period for those who wish to register their guns, and then eventually the law will be enforced. It does not impress people when you blithely ignore their arguments and go on making the same sorts of statements without ever addressing the response. Many people have pointed out to you that even without taking into account the enormous costs of the gun registry the fact is the registry itself is flawed for numersous reasons. The fact we have already paid - you presume - most of the costs is beside the point. You ignore all the flaws in the registry, the misfiles, the lack of updates, the duplicate serial numbers and misidentifications, and the enormous error rates in both filing and updating files. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 It will get sorted out. Have you ever been to a credit bureau? They make mistakes, you tell them about it, and it gets corrected. The same thing for the registry, it will get sorted out. You are making a mountain out of a molehill! As I understand opponents of the gun registry caused some of the problems, so you only have yourselves to blame! Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 It will get sorted out. Have you ever been to a credit bureau? They make mistakes, you tell them about it, and it gets corrected. The same thing for the registry, it will get sorted out. You are making a mountain out of a molehill! You talk as though there only a few minor errors in place! Let me repost what you utterly ignored the first time: Canada's billion-dollar gun registry employs 1,800 bureaucrats, who spend their days tracking down duck hunters and farmers. By comparison, Canada hired only 130 additional customs officers to protect our borders after Sept.11, 2001. Here are a few more eye-rolling facts about the gun registry.Internal audits show that government bureaucrats have a 71% error rate in licensing gun owners and a 91% error rate in registering the guns themselves. The government admits it registered 718,414 guns without serial numbers. That means either the bureaucrats forgot to write them down, or the guns didn't have serial numbers in the first place. That's as useless as registering a vehicle simply as "a blue Ford Explorer." To these gun owners, the government has sent little stickers with made-up "serial numbers" on them, that gun owners are supposed to stick on their guns. And everybody at the gun registry is praying that criminals who steal those guns won't peel off the stickers. Some 222,911 guns were registered with the same make and serial number as other guns. That's not just useless - it's dangerous. If someone else with a "Blue Ford Explorer" is involved in a hit and run, you'll be the one getting a knock on the door by the RCMP. Out of 4,114,624 gun registration certificates, 3,235,647 had blank or missing entries - but the bureaucrats issued them anyways. In the beginning, the government's firearms licenses had photographs on them - just like driver's licenses do. But after hundreds of gun owners were sent licenses with someone else's photo on them, the government decided to scrap photos on the licenses altogether, rather than fix the problem. And I should point out this is not a complete list. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
brianw Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Just thought I would add a tidbit here. If the police even check the registry before going into a situation what will they find. If they find that there are no registered weapons then are the police going to go into the situation believing that there is no danger. Absolutely not. They must go into every situation as if there is danger. There could be a visitor with a weapon, a knife, club or anything else involved. They must go into every situation with caution. If they believe the registry then they may be putting themselves and others in danger. If they do find a weapon registered then they may be overly eager with the use of force when no weapon is involved in the situation (just because someone has a gun does not mean it is involved and in most cases they are not). Should they go into the situation with their "fingers on the trigger" and possible hurt someone who is innocent? Absolutely not. What does all this boil down to? The police must go into every situation exactly the same. They must be alert and attentive but they must also not be in a "Rambo" state of mind. So what does the registry accomplish. It does not stop criminals from obtaining weapons, it does not stop smuggling, and it does not help the police even if they do check the gun registry 1500 times a day. By the way. How does the gun registry stop someone from "losing it" (which is most of the domestic disputes) and using a registered gun to kill? Quote
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 The gun registry is useful. If police are called to attend an incident at a home they check and see if there are registered weapons there. I have heard police talk about its usefulness. Granted there have been mistakes and the minister involved should have taken responsibility for the government mistakes if there were some, and done the honourable thing and resigned. I am sure a large part of the frustration, is that no one is taking responsibility for the mistakes. I don't believe those figures were all the mistake of the government. There was a campaign by gun owners to block or damage the system, was there not? Maybe the gun owners caused some a lot of the problems. Nothing is black and white like you try to paint it. People in the governernment are like anyone else here. They get up in the morning, go to work, try and do as good as job as possible, and then go home to attend to their family. They are not out to get you. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1: Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin Just want to be clear on the rules here now Greg. It is OK to use words like fascists, nazis, commies, communism, but no swearing, is that correct? Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Slavik44 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin Just want to be clear on the rules here now Greg. It is OK to use words like fascists, nazis, commies, communism, but no swearing, is that correct? or perhaps the next time we talk about the new democrats i will infer they are communists because socialism is used interchangably by Karl Marx even though it is evident they are two different things. do I dare ask what is so offensive about my use of the word communism here, especially to the point where it prompts you to say what you did? Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
ticker Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 MS posting rules: you can say nazi, neo con but not commies, communism Quote
kimmy Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1:Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! Myth? So before the gun registry was enacted, there was no gun control at all? Are you sure about this, syrup? -kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
kimmy Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin Just want to be clear on the rules here now Greg. It is OK to use words like fascists, nazis, commies, communism, but no swearing, is that correct? If I might be so bold... I believe that Greg's concern was likely that "F U!" is not civil discourse. I think Greg is trying to keep this from degenerating into pre-school recess. Surely if you have actual ideas to express, you can express them, rather than shout swears at people who disagree with you. -kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
August1991 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 *Wanders in, totally clueless...* Isn't F U a brand name for jeans? Quote
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1:Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! Myth? So before the gun registry was enacted, there was no gun control at all? Are you sure about this, syrup? -kimmy Kimmy......1 + 1 doesn't equal 3. Do you know how many people that misogynist at U of Montreal shot 15 years ago? Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Gun registry/control is working. 2,000,000 or 95% of firearms' owners are now registered, and close to 6,000,000 or 85% of Canada's firearms are now registered. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Jeez, I wonder what happened here. How sad! Teacher slain, husband charged Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Chimera Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 MS, this is a sad incident indeed. However, it is also more proof that the gun registry does nothing to prevent violent crime. Nowhere in that article, or others I have read on the same incident state what kind of weapon was used. As this was a crime of passion, it is quite likely that the weapon used was a registered firearm. Registering a gun does not prevent it from being used for violent crime. The old saying goes "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". And Kimmy is correct. Prior to this latest gun registry, weapons were still registered. Your own facts prove this. maplesyrup Posted on Dec 11 2004, 05:51 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registry/control is working. 2,000,000 or 95% of firearms' owners are now registered, and close to 6,000,000 or 85% of Canada's firearms are now registered. If they have knowledge of all these unregistered weapons, are these weapons truly unregistred? Quote
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1:Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! You are mistaken. This mythology is practiced by those who support the gun registry - like yourself. The gun lobby have repeatedly pointed out that the gun registry is not gun contro and while control actually accomplishes something of value the registry does not. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 slavik44....oh I see, communist innuendo now. FUCK YOU! Strike two Maplesyrup. Keep this up and you'll be banned from these forums. Greg Admin Just want to be clear on the rules here now Greg. It is OK to use words like fascists, nazis, commies, communism, but no swearing, is that correct? You seem to be unable to distinguish between attacks on argument and attacks on the people who make the argument. You misunderstood when it was pointed out to you that an argument you were making was the same kind as has been made by facists and communists and got insulted. You apparently believed you were being called a fascist or communist. That was an error on your part. You compounded that error in another post, where once again you were not being attacked, but your argument was being compared to that made by others. The trick in debate is to attack your opponent's argument, not your opponent. Saying "F U!" is not attacking your opponent's argument. Not to mention that obscenities and personal insults are invariably banned from any forum which wants to retain intelligent debate. If I say "You are a fascist" that would be against the rules. But if I say "That is the same kind of argument fascists make" that would be allowable. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Posted December 11, 2004 Gun registry/control is working.2,000,000 or 95% of firearms' owners are now registered, and close to 6,000,000 or 85% of Canada's firearms are now registered. And this has accomplished what, exactly? If I used two billion dollars to create strike teams to make buys of illegal weapons in local bars and taverns across the country, and to add police to the border points where smuggling of weapons is known to happen I could point to a certain number of weapons seized and smugglers/sellers of weapons imprisoned. What kind of help is the registry compared to that? Find me a single cop on the planet who would opt to register long guns rather than putting that money into deterring smuggling and the illegal sale of weapons. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
maplesyrup Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1:Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! You are mistaken. This mythology is practiced by those who support the gun registry - like yourself. The gun lobby have repeatedly pointed out that the gun registry is not gun contro and while control actually accomplishes something of value the registry does not. Most of the money spent have been for screening gun owners not registering guns The gun registry is the combination of the screening process and the registration process. Key to preventing particularly domestic violence, and suicdes is the screening process which has information that is not documented in police data bases. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
kimmy Posted December 11, 2004 Report Posted December 11, 2004 Myth No 1:Ending the gun registry is not the same as ending gun control. This is gun lobby initiated mythology and is incorrect! Myth? So before the gun registry was enacted, there was no gun control at all? Are you sure about this, syrup? -kimmy Kimmy......1 + 1 doesn't equal 3. Do you know how many people that misogynist at U of Montreal shot 15 years ago? Yes, I'm familiar with the Ecole Polytechnique tragedy. It has been pointed out many times that the gun registry could have done nothing to prevent that incident. Lepine purchased his weapon legally. Had the gun registry been in effect that the time, Lepine could have applied to have it registered, and they would have had no reason to refuse him. And there is no doubt that You are perpetrating the same kind of fraudulent argument that many supporters of the registry make. You cite violent incidents as the reason we need the gun registry, but offer no explanation as to how the registry could prevent the violent incidents you reference. The shooting of the teacher in Brampton is a perfect example. Did the gun registry make her life safer? We don't yet know if the gun he used was registered or unregistered, but either way, it points out a problem. If the gun the husband used was registered, this incident proves that legally owned, registered firearms are just as deadly as unregistered firearms. If the gun was unregistered, it proves that violent people apparently don't feel inclined to register their guns. So really, how is the gun registry making our lives safer? It didn't help Mrs Candir. It couldn't have prevented the Montreal Massacre. You keep pointing out violent incidents as evidence that we need the registry, but please explain how the registry could have prevented any of it. -kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
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