Gun registration

Argus · December 7, 2004

Let me start by saying I believe in gun control, especially in large urban centres.

But I am irretrievably opposed to the long gun registry, and I have yet to find a single one of its supporters able to offer a coherent or logical reason why I should not be.

The Liberals designed this as a sort of placebo, a cheap, useless program they could point to at election time to show they cared about crime. Now we know why they support it; because Liberals are incapable of admitting errors.

Most of the people who support gun registration will blnk stupidly when you ask them about it and then proceed to talk about gun control, unaware there is any difference, presuming that the gun registry is all that stands between them and the Marc Lepines (who would have been unaffected by it even if it had been in place then).

So is anyone here prepared to defend the $2 billion and counting for this useless pig of a program now that we're about to spend another $100 million on it?

fellowtraveller · December 8, 2004

Homicides using firearms as a weapon actually went up last year, while overall homicides went down. statscan source

It appears some of the criminals have overlooked registering their weapons.

maplesyrup · December 8, 2004

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Canada's gun registry is here to stay, and Canadian police use it at least 1,500 times a day. Some of the costs are attribitable to the NRA. Costs will slow down now.

Apparently Galloway does not have the support of one other Liberal MP so his motion will not pass.

maplesyrup · December 8, 2004

ft.............what you overlooked in the data on your link is that shooting contributed the most of all the methods of homocides.

I know you people love to compare yourselves to the US all the time, so what are the comparative figures with the US?

fellowtraveller · December 8, 2004

explain relevance of your post please?

kimmy · December 8, 2004

I bet that of those 1500 uses a day, at least 1499 of them are police checking for firearms before responding to routine calls at private residences. Not that I have any objection to the police officers watching out for their safety in this manner, but I think it is disingenuous to claim that number proves the registry is an effective tool in preventing or investigating crime.

-kimmy

Argus · December 8, 2004

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Unless its stillborn - and was stillborn years ago. In which case it's time to bury the poor kid.

Canada's gun registry is here to stay, and Canadian police use it at least 1,500 times a day. Some of the costs are attribitable to the NRA. Costs will slow down now.

That police routinely check the registry is no evidence it is serving any useful purpose. This is two billion and counting we could have been spending on something useful - like cracking down on weapon smuggling across the border, or buying more MRI machine for hospitals. As for the costs slowing down - well, they've just put in a request for another $100 million. Do you enjoy spending money for nothing?

Apparently Galloway does not have the support of one other Liberal MP so his motion will not pass.

Apparently he had the support of almost two dozen before the cabinet began twisting arms. All the exercise has done is shown once again that Paul Martin = Jean Chretien. They are the same man with the same lack of policies, the same lack of honesty, the same lack of initiative, and the same refusal to admit to errors, no matter what the cost to the taxpayer.

By the way, I have a new program for you. It's a foot long plastic ass scratcher for every cop in Canada. I have no doubt they will use it at least 1500 times a day, and I will sell them to the government for only $2 billion. Their cost will be amply justified by the number of times they are being used, correct? :rolleyes:

maplesyrup · December 8, 2004

If one is opposed to the gun registry one can always find absurd reasons not to support it. The issue is dead, pun intended.

Time to move on.

fellowtraveller · December 8, 2004

good post argus.

The govt also doesn't want us to know how many guns remain unregistered. I know of one small town where a person who has registered on weapon is purchasing ammunition for about 40 others who have not registered anything. The cops know all about it, and do nothing.

Have there been any prosecutions yet for failing to register?

Argus · December 8, 2004

If one is opposed to the gun registry one can always find absurd reasons not to support it. The issue is dead, pun intended.
Time to move on.

One absurd reason for not supporting the gun registry: $2 billion.

I could post a link to more but I doubt you'd read it. And since you seem to like posting long quotes, I'll post a few.

Absurd reasons for not supporting the gun registry

Canada's billion-dollar gun registry employs 1,800 bureaucrats, who spend their days tracking down duck hunters and farmers. By comparison, Canada hired only 130 additional customs officers to protect our borders after Sept.11, 2001. Here are a few more eye-rolling facts about the gun registry.
Internal audits show that government bureaucrats have a 71% error rate in licensing gun owners and a 91% error rate in registering the guns themselves.

The government admits it registered 718,414 guns without serial numbers. That means either the bureaucrats forgot to write them down, or the guns didn't have serial numbers in the first place. That's as useless as registering a vehicle simply as "a blue Ford Explorer." To these gun owners, the government has sent little stickers with made-up "serial numbers" on them, that gun owners are supposed to stick on their guns. And everybody at the gun registry is praying that criminals who steal those guns won't peel off the stickers.

Some 222,911 guns were registered with the same make and serial number as other guns. That's not just useless - it's dangerous. If someone else with a "Blue Ford Explorer" is involved in a hit and run, you'll be the one getting a knock on the door by the RCMP.

Out of 4,114,624 gun registration certificates, 3,235,647 had blank or missing entries - but the bureaucrats issued them anyways.

In the beginning, the government's firearms licenses had photographs on them - just like driver's licenses do. But after hundreds of gun owners were sent licenses with someone else's photo on them, the government decided to scrap photos on the licenses altogether, rather than fix the problem.

I could post more, but you get the idea.

August1991 · December 8, 2004

It's a foot long plastic ass scratcher for every cop in Canada. I have no doubt they will use it at least 1500 times a day, and I will sell them to the government for only $2 billion.

Giggle, giggle.

ticker · December 9, 2004

Why hasn't CAGERATTLER replied guns are his favorite topic. He is on over a dozen boards; oh yeh he hasn't found this one yet.

maplesyrup · December 9, 2004

The issue is dead - Galloway has seen the light and withdrawn his motion. :lol:

Slavik44 · December 9, 2004

If one is opposed to the gun registry one can always find absurd reasons not to support it. The issue is dead, pun intended.
Time to move on.

No maplesyrup the issue was a big wate of money 2 billion dollars could have done alot of good if they were placed into health care, or how about homeless shelters, affordable housing? Maybe we could have updated the roads so less people die in car accidents? Or maybe we could have put it into the Canadian rail system so big truckers were not on are roads needlessly killing peope, right maplesyrup? The 2 billion dollars may be gone, so I won't cry over spilt milk but the gun registry was a 2 billion dollar, indefensible, waste that has done absolutley no good. Those 2 billion dollars could ahve been better off anywhere, from hiring strippers for Judy Sgro to funding the prosecution for the possible war crimes case agaisnt George Bush. Literally they are a thousand, strange, but better ways we could have spent that money, how about donating it to the food bank? Maybe buying little kids christmas presents, maybe we could have spent the money subsidizing the Red Green show, after all happy people just don't commit suicide and we could have saved peoples lives. However a sad perosn with a registered gun can still commit suicide. Maybe we could have spent the two billion investing in enron, and you know we still would have been better off. The issue is dead yes, but how many people has it killed with it?

maplesyrup · December 9, 2004

People can keep on ranting about the cost but it is a done deal - the money has been spent and whining about it is not going to return it. We need to move onto issues of substance here, instead of all this right wing mumbo-jumbo, for the sake of a couple of pissed off hunters, who are probably members of the Fraser Institute.

NO ONE IS TAKING AWAY YOUR FRIGGIN' GUNS!!!

caesar · December 9, 2004

The gun registry should not have cost that much money and probably wouldn't have if these gun lovers didn't protest and put up so many stumbling blocks to it. I would like to see every hunter and farmer need to show that he has enough knowledge and respect for guns to always keep them in a secure place. My father had guns; we were taught to respect guns and never to point them at anyone or where a bullet could travel and hit someone or the bullet richochet and hit someone or an animal.

Many other farmers/hunter did not use the same care nor put the fear of God into their children that guns are not toys.

One of our neighbours two teenage sons got into a brotherly fight; the younger boy ran into the house; grabbed a shotgun and shot his brother. In the heat of an argument a gun was readily available; the shooter immediately regretted his decision and called for an ambulance and the police but it was too late. His brother was dead.

ticker · December 9, 2004

Marc Lépine's name was Gamil Gharbi before he changed it; but the media leaves that little bit out

Gamil Gharbi's father beat his son, his daughter and his wife incessantly. His father taught Gamil how to hate women. It was part of his culture

thousands of legitimate, law abiding gun owners in Canada are paying the price for this muslum and his mental problems. This deranged creep has cost this country billions.

if the shooting happend in alberta but guns were used by Quebec where votes are important the feds would tell Alberta tough luck we are not going to change laws to please a couple of Alberta voters.

maplesyrup · December 9, 2004

A couple of voters my ass. The vast majority of Canadians want gun control and the gun registry. You have to have a dirver's licence to drive a car, so what is wrong with registering your weapons? I hate to break it to ya, but this is not the Roy Rogers Tom Mix, Gene Autry and Tonto era any more.

I never hear any valid resons not to have these gun control and gun registry programs.

ticker · December 9, 2004

yes a couple of voters. the liberals could only hope to get a couple more then the 2 liberal MPs in union edmonton but that is not worth the price of loosing 20+ liberal seats in Quebec.

maplesyrup · December 9, 2004

So we shouldn't have a gun registry, and gun control, eh!

At Least 5 Dead, 2 Wounded In Nightclub Shooting

Right! :rolleyes:

ticker · December 9, 2004

your are reaching using the Marc Lépine incident a while ago or refering to the US how about posting a news clip from one of the weekly shootings in an alberta pub.

Slavik44 · December 9, 2004

So we shouldn't have a gun registry, and gun control, eh!
At Least 5 Dead, 2 Wounded In Nightclub Shooting

Right!

Perfect maplesyrup explain to me how the Gun registry would have stopped this.

kimmy · December 9, 2004

The gun registry should not have cost that much money and probably wouldn't have if these gun lovers didn't protest and put up so many stumbling blocks to it.

Bullshit.

I have heard this claim before by the Liberals and by defenders of the gun registry... blaming opponents of the registry for driving up costs. HOW?

I have heard that some prank phonecalls and prank applications have been made to the registry; I have never heard any evidence to support that the government was forced to hire extra staff to deal with these prank calls/applications, and I know damned well that the government didn't spend $2 billion on extra staff. So where, then?

I've got a theory about what caused the outrageous cost over-runs: grift.

Little-noticed amongst all the fury over the sponsorship scandal was this little tidbit that came out of the government investigation into sponsorship:

The RCMP also allege [Guité and Brault] defrauded the government of $150,000 in relation to a gun registry contract dealing with "surveillance and documentation of sites and interest groups."

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/10/canada/rcmp040510

The RCMP found fraudulent expenses in the gun registry and they weren't even investigating the gun registry. How much more do you think there is that we don't know about? Does anybody here think the Liberals are above it? I mean, if they're willing to exploit concern over National Unity to scam public money to their friends, why wouldn't they exploit concern over Public Safety to scam public money to their friends?

I mean, for there to have been that much money thrown at the gun registry, there's only two possibilities. Total incompetence, or massive fraud. One or the other. There's no other explanation for this thing costing $300 per registered gun.

-kimmy

maplesyrup · December 9, 2004

slavik44.... it is all smoke and mirrors isn't it with the gun advocates?

Obviously it takes a combination of police enforcement, gun control, gun registry, appropriate courtroom sentencing, and education. My preference would be for that nightclub incident not to have occurred. If that is the kind of society you wish to live in by all means don't let me stop you. Have you ever done a comparison of gun crime incidents in the US compared to Canada?

Slavik44 · December 9, 2004

slavik44.... it is all smoke and mirrors isn't it with the gun advocates?
Obviously it takes a combination of police enforcement, gun control, gun registry, appropriate courtroom sentencing, and education. My preference would be for that nightclub incident not to have occurred. If that is the kind of society you wish to live in by all means don't let me stop you. Have you ever done a comparison of gun crime incidents in the US compared to Canada?

Maplesyrup don't try for one second to stereo type. My question is what woudl the Gun registry do to stop this. You will fidn I oppose the gunr egistry opoun an often forgotten concept of RESPONSIBILITY. IT was irresponsible to throw away our money, money that could ahve doen good elsewhere. And as of now you still have failed to answer my question, which specifically asks hwo the CANADIAN GUN REGISTRY would have stopped the nightclub incident.