Canada Practicing Systemic Racism

[maplesyrup]

Is it time to start our own long walk?

South Africa is, in some ways, the inversion of North America. North is hot, south is cool. The calendar is upside down: Christmas is a summer holiday.

Blacks constitute nearly 80 per cent of the population, whites are the minority.

The minority has most of the wealth, and had all the power until their whites-only referendum voted in a new era.

Mandela's Long Walk To Freedom has but one reference to Canada, describing his encounter with Inuit youth pressing to see him outside the airport fence in Goose Bay. "What struck me so forcefully was how small the world had become during my years in prison. It was amazing to me that a teenage Inuit living at the roof of the world could watch the release of a political prisoner on the southern tip of Africa."

Canada's a very long way from apartheid's systemic racial brutality. But perhaps not so far as we'd wish. Noting the "parallels between the plights of black South Africans and the Inuit people," Mandela, a man known for gentle words, wrote, "the Inuit are an aboriginal people historically mistreated by a white settler population."

Not too many Canadians will enjoy reading that. And Canada does not, of course, force aboriginal people into townships or restrict their free movement.

But more subtle race-based policies — tax rules, weak individual property rights on reserves, communal grants to band councils rather than citizens — perpetuate a form of ghettoization.

As in the Soviet era, less bad for leaders (who resist systemic change) but awful for ordinary people who, despite many billions of dollars in transfers, suffer horrible housing, health and education. And haven't enough power to change that.

Is it time to start our own long walk?

Will our First Peoples finally begin to benefit from Canada's Northern resources? I wonder.

[maplesyrup]

Natives' Land Battles Bring a Shift in Canada Economy

Today they are in the vanguard of what appears to be a renaissance of Indian nations in Canada that legal scholars and others say could determine ultimate control over many resources vital to Canada's future, including oil, timber and diamonds.

The Haida won a landmark case in November in Canada's Supreme Court obliging British Columbia to consult with them over land use anywhere on their traditional homelands here on the Queen Charlotte Islands. The decision is expected to have a sweeping impact on similar Indian claims across Canada.

Adapting their old warrior ways to federal and provincial courtrooms, the Haida have already managed to slow efforts to clear-cut their lands by Weyerhaeuser and other companies. They have stalled plans by Petro-Canada and other companies to drill in ancestral waters should a government moratorium be lifted along the coast.

They are not alone in their efforts. Native bands are similarly exerting increasing control over natural resources across vast stretches of northern Canada that promise to be vital economically in a future of global warming. The developments have pleased environmentalists. But some legal experts warn that the stirrings represent a danger to the unity of a nation already struggling to keep separatist leanings in Quebec under control. There has not been a full-blown public debate on the issue, partly because most Canadians agree that native people deserve better conditions.

Maybe there is some hope after all, especially if the international community is able to shame Canada into conducting itself in an appropriate manner, and to stop treating its First Peoples like some third world nation.

[RB]

Racism is alive and well in Canada.

It is a discomforting to admit what happen to the native folks. I mean usually everyone in Canada has a place of orign except of course the native people. This Canada is where they belong - we can't tell them to return to their roots like we did with the Japanese, Indio- Pakistani, blacks.

It should be a concern that this enduring uncomfortable presence of race dominance is what constitutes a norm of societal belonging in Canada. I mean in one of the beer commerical, it portrayedf 2 white folks rowing towards Canada, and discovery is made whatever as if they were the first people to actually land at its shores.

Yes there are some inherent historical shadows of race dominance and it shows how the dominant group is problematic in its attempt to manage various native and ethnic communities. They still practice polite racism and other forms. But, I mean how come Quebec has a unique culture whilst we try to extinct the native culture.

I get to say that racism is constructed in the imagination and invisiable boundaries are set how to define differences. Chinatown is a creation of the imagination. Chinatown is an classic example how communities are imagine, contructed and reconstructed. What this means is that in terms of race is that imagined communities were formed to reinforce the notion of presumed difference. Boundaries were then created as structure of surveillance and discipline to control and dominate of others for social, political and economic control...yes

This is exactly what happened to the natives, all I remember as a kid was the cowboys chasing the Indians and had much appreciation for cowboys.

Oh the difficulties of aboriginal peoples have deep roots. One of the stories told of the coyote and the ducks' shining feathers at a lake. hmm the coyote wanted to look pretty so it asked for one feather of the ducks. the ducks wanting to be friendly offered a feather. Then, the coyote looked at its reflection and thought well it wish to balance the feathers so returned to the lake asked for another one. He heard about the white man coming to hunt so made a deal for more feathers to watch over the ducks. You know what happened eventually all the duck's feathers are gone, most of the ducks are gone also.

Nowadays, the ducks are growing new feathers but they are much smaller and not so shining.

The court system is upholding the treaties and land claims. Sometimes, the folks are just fed up I mean how about the mckenzie valley pipeline? How about dividing the natives in small bands instead of nations, and how about deciding who is indian? If you spoke english you were half-breed therefore not an Indian, even when both parents are Indians?

[Hawk]

I believe that racism is a direct result of special treatment, get rid of the Indian act and make them a part of our society.

Look at the Chinese, they basically built our nation through our railroads, and they dont have special reserves and whatnot... yet most of them are better off than me or any other white boy I know =o

Its not about isolating them from the rest of Canada more and more or giving them more and more, you will never solve a problem that way. The only way to negate racism is to stop making their ethnicity or skin color matter, and you aren't going to accomplish that by making the differences more obvious with special treatment.

[maplesyrup]

Wrong.....you are living in denial. We have a treaty process to respect, so that eventually First Peoples can finally share in Canada's economic wealth, and we are dealing with First Peoples on a nation to nation basis. Honkys had better get used to it.

[Choke]

Hawk is right.

I think right now the government should restrist status to people who are 100% Native.

I hope that once Canada dissolves, BC, or whatever jurisdiction it ends up in, will burn all the current treaties and refuse to ever sign any new ones.

I think Natives have a very hard time in our society, and I wish there was an easy solution...but it isn't helped by the resentment caused by their special treatment under the law. I think only by becoming part of Canadian society will they ever be prosperous.

I dismiss any notion that Canada and (insert "First Nation" here) are equal in any sense.

Beyond all of that, I find the "we were here first" arguement a little pathetic. So what? We were here second. Being in a place first does not entitle you to eternal ownership. Furthermore, originally there were NO people here, so by the "we were first" standard mabye we should all go back to Africa.

[Tawasakm]

Hawk and Choke are you advocating cultural assimilation here?

It has been tried before and it doesn't actually solve anything. If anything it exacerbates the problems.

[Choke]

I think people are maleable. You can teach them to think however you want them to, if you know the right way to go about it. They can learn to live side-by-side and have differences, without having problems. I don't want forced or total assimilation, but I see no problem with Natives taking the same place in society that every other cultural group has. The rest of us seem to get along together without special priviledges, why not Natives?

[August1991]

I think people are maleable. You can teach them to think however you want them to, if you know the right way to go about it.

By that logic, all kids would do their homework, there would be no car thiefs and all politicians would be honest.

People have a tendency to do what they really want to do, claim they are doing it for someone else's benefit and figure out a way around any rule devised to stop them.

The rest of us seem to get along together without special priviledges, why not Natives?

I more or less agree.

[RB]

I always liked this definition of racism

"Systemic discrimination "means practices or attitudes that have, whether by design or impact, the effect of limiting an individual`s or a group`s right to the opportunities generally available because of attributed rather than actual characteristics.... It is not a question of whether this discrimination is motivated by an intentional desire to obstruct someone's potential, or whether it is the accidental bi-product of innocently motivated practices or systems. If the barrier is affecting some groups in a disproportionately negative way, it is a signal that the practices that lead to this adverse impact may be discriminatory". Abella

It is strange when we try to correct some problems it is special treatment. Look it, there is a native town in North Ontario existing 400 people - recent sucides is over 40, its a social emergency

I believe that racism is a direct result of special treatment, get rid of the Indian act and make them a part of our society.

Why don't try telling the folks of Quebec to do away with the French culture and assimilate them into mainstream

The rest of us seem to get along together without special priviledges, why not Natives?

I more or less agree.

I have to disagree, out of all the groups of people the natives are the worst of the lot. They have lost themselves, and no economic power to negiotiate much. You can put them up as a starting point with the 20% wealthy canadians, and another 80% of the population doing better than the natives and then turn around say proudly - make it work. A level playing field for all.

So I will give you another quote I like

It is not that individuals in the designated groups are inherently unable to achieve equality on their own, it is that the obstacles in their way are so formidable and self-perpetuating that they cannot be overcome without intervention. It is both intolerable and insensitive if we simply wait and hope that the barriers will disappear with time.  Judge Abella

Nothing will happen unless we intervene and this goes for all the depressed groups

[ndpnic]

As far as I'm concerned, Canadians not only practise Racisim, they have a distinct line between the rich and poor, with "Classisim" going on.

To me, "Classisim" is a bigger threat to Canadian society, because rich or poor covers All races and beliefs!!!

[Tawasakm]

Choke Posted on Dec 6 2004, 09:04 PM

I think people are maleable. You can teach them to think however you want them to, if you know the right way to go about it.

That was tried in Australia. Its now referred to as 'the stolen generation'. Children were taken from their parents and placed in institutions where they were taught christian religion, forbidden to see their parent, forbidden to speak any language but english, forbidden any form of their old culture. It did not end well. It solved nothing.

I don't want forced or total assimilation, but I see no problem with Natives taking the same place in society that every other cultural group has. The rest of us seem to get along together without special priviledges, why not Natives?

This take seems to me to be based on a 'static' assessment of the situation and of what causes racism. I have heard exactly the same sentiments expressed here in Australia. The truth is that racism, and the current conditions of Australian Aboriginals, are the result of a two hundred year process. Are things really so different there?

[kimmy]

Of course suicide rates are astronomically high on the reserves. They're a disaster. Reserves are not good. Projects that are supposed to create opportunities on reserves wind up lining the pockets of corrupt band officials. Young people wind up leaving the reserves to look for opportunities in the cities, because there's nothing for them on the reserves. But they find themselves poorly adapted to life in cities, as they've had little opportunity to gain the life skills they need to succeed (or, even, scrape by.) Here on the prairies, many natives who come to the cities wind up joining gangs.

Give them special treatment or extra help or whatever, but the reserves are terrible.

-kimmy

[Argus]

Wrong.....you are living in denial. We have a treaty process to respect, so that eventually First Peoples can finally share in Canada's economic wealth, and we are dealing with First Peoples on a nation to nation basis. Honkys had better get used to it.

Horse shit.

Natives will never have self-respect - not to mention be respected by others, as long as they are kept as quaint museum cultures by bleeding heart liberals. The reserves are relics of another era, completely uneconomically viable, and they need to be abandoned. The natives need to be incorporated into our culture and get into the cities and towns where the jobs are, not kept out in the boonies rotting away on welfare.

[Argus]

Maybe there is some hope after all, especially if the international community is able to shame Canada into conducting itself in an appropriate manner, and to stop treating its First Peoples like some third world nation.

The uh "international community"? Who would this "international community" be that can shame Canada for its historical injustices? The Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The South Americans? The Africans? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

The fact is they not only all have horrible incidents in their past, most of them have them in their _present_.

[Argus]

Racism is alive and well in Canada. 

Play me a violin. Racism is alive in every country on Earth, only it's worse in almost all of them than here.

It is a discomforting to admit what happen to the native folks.  I mean usually everyone in Canada has a place of orign except of course the native people.  This Canada is where they belong -  we can't tell them to return to their roots like we did with the Japanese, Indio- Pakistani, blacks. 

And just who's been telling the Japanese, Indians or Pakistanis to go "home"?

[maplesyrup]

The "Father Knows Best" TV show died a long time ago.

The longer we wait to negotiate these threaties, the more costly it is going to be for us honkys. Let's get on with it so it can still be a win-win situation, otherwise we honkys increase the risk of losing everything.

[Argus]

Hawk and Choke are you advocating cultural assimilation here?

No one is saying natives should forget who they were. But wanting them to live as they were centuries ago is idiotic. Yet that seems to be the hope many liberals cherish. Natives are people, like everyone else. They need to be integrated into the fabric of Canada, just like the Chinese, the Japanese, the Sikhs, the Carribean Blacks, the African Blacks, and every other cultural, racial and linguistic group which, while retaining awareness and respect for their past, wants to live in the present.

You will never solve the problems of natives as long as you insist on seeing them as something other than Canadians. You will never solve their problems while keeping them on the reserves. You will never give them self respect while they remain living on welfare and handouts from the rest of Canada. And you will never gain them their full respect FROM the rest of Canada until they become contributing members, and not a drain on taxes.

[RB]

Racism is alive and well in Canada

Play me a violin. Racism is alive in every country on Earth, only it's worse in almost all of them than here.

Are you just writing for writing sake.

Racism is a problem, there are racist rules in effect maybe not with intend but it definitely excludes people.

I will tell you what I read into your writing in critical discourse.

firstly you are using topoi in "play me a violin" and are trivialising the issue of racism playing to the audience and cunningly because you want them to know the real truth about racism.

So enters some assertiveness, a real truth.

Yes, you make it clear the racism exist, in a worst form, in fact it exist everywhere, further explanation, it exist on every place on earth. such exaggeration as frontage.

And how nice because you intend to let everyone know of this fact. The readers of course had not figured this racism issue out yet.

So with great usage of over simplification, and trivilization with assertion you want to make it clear my statement of “racism is alive and well in Canada” is deliberately misleading the reader who are well too silly to realise it anyway.

But wait a minute are those just some blanket statements, or you just writing anything, there is no evidence for the entire earth, you think racism exist in Vatican City.

But here is racism in canada for you

Racism and its worst effects are camouflaged by a teflon veneer of tolerance and politeness.  Racism in Canada is chronic and deeply embedded in the core of the history, and institution and shows no signs of diminishing.  Racism provides the ideological life-support for capitalism (all these folks said this Bolaria and Li, Satzewich, McKague, mcKenna)

And just who's been telling the Japanese, Indians or Pakistanis to go "home"?

Some of your systemic laws are problematic...

How about the Komagata Maru incident.

Japanese Canadians were forced to decide on deportation to Japan or relocation to parts east of the Rockies. in 1947, 4,000 Japanese Canadians had left Canada; 2,000 were Canadian born, of whom one third were children under the age of sixteen .. see that link below

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:NOLMwQ...in+canada&hl=en

[RB]

its ironic when Matthew Coon stood up in guess where apartheid South Africa and questioned whether Canadians are racists? and you are shocked? Canadians are very tolerant of others openingly, they almost like the word diversity, mostly because we have greatly developed and enhanced our human side, and I would go as far as to say CANADA YOU ARE #1, Canada, you might not do well in education, but on the top of a list of being a number one country for being polite. Coon is far from being wrong. Canada also tolerate systemic racism.

assimilation of the natives will not foster rebirth of recognition of their loss cultural values and thats what they are looking for. ok i want to say also they would like to impose consciousness into the white folks psyche. currently they are remapping the land with the initial indian names given to plots of land. nothing might come out of this but at least it gets document. secondly, Canada has done some strategic segregation of the natives by putting them in bands and want to negotiate within bands. i mean the government against 20 people in one area, and the government against 400 people in another, c'mon. so the power structure of who gets and what gives is overwhelming. if the natives are allowed to negotiate as a group they would have increase voices.

[Argus]

Racism is alive and well in Canada

Play me a violin. Racism is alive in every country on Earth, only it's worse in almost all of them than here.

Racism is a problem, there are racist rules in effect maybe not with intend but it definitely excludes people.

Name these racist rules.

So with great usage of over simplification, and trivilization with assertion you want to make it clear my statement of “racism is alive and well in Canada” is deliberately misleading the reader who are well too silly to realise it anyway.

Is English your first language? Do you think you get points for excess verbiage?

But wait a minute are those just some blanket statements, or you just writing anything,  there is no evidence for the entire earth, you think racism exist in Vatican City.

Uhm, yeah.

Racism and its worst effects are camouflaged by a teflon veneer of tolerance and politeness.  Racism in Canada is chronic and deeply embedded in the core of the history, and institution and shows no signs of diminishing.  Racism provides the ideological life-support for capitalism (all these folks said this Bolaria and Li, Satzewich, McKague, mcKenna)

Yeah, well, whoever they are screw them. I want evidence not bluster and accusations.

And just who's been telling the Japanese, Indians or Pakistanis to go "home"?

Some of your systemic laws are problematic...

Name them.

How about the Komagata Maru incident.

Japanese Canadians were forced to decide on deportation to Japan or relocation to parts east of the Rockies. in 1947,

I don't care about 1947. I wasn't born then. We are talking about today. Find me specifics or dry up.

[Argus]

its ironic when Matthew Coon stood up in guess where  apartheid South Africa and questioned whether  Canadians are racists? and you are shocked?

Not particularly. The Indian Industry survives on big welfare handouts created by guilt-tripping ignorant, bleeding heart Whites. Coon is part of the Indian Industry. He makes his living creating guilt for Whites and then divying the loot. Maybe he's a racist. God knows we are well aware that Natives are just as likely to be racist as any other group.

[RB]

argus

i believe you are going have to come up with your own explanation of what constitutes racism and a definition of racism

God knows we are well aware that Natives are just as likely to be racist as any other group

the natives can habor much resentment against the whites but they do not have ECONOMIC POWER to descrimiate against the whites, furthermore non of the minority groups is able to descrimiate against the whites, so if you are the same, consider that you are born into some advantageous position for just being the same.

I don't care about 1947. I wasn't born then.

i don't know how you can ignore the history but ok important information requirement: year of birth please?

Here is a 1990 report of confrontation between Quebec police, the canadian army and kanienkehaka of kanesatake over the pines cemetery with gunfire and death of officer lemay. The army was brought in with tanks and bulldozers, and besiege the people of pines for 78 days. You think it was an a just by the way wake-up call that prompted the Royal Commission to produce 3,000 pages 1996. Maybe they indians were happy people with no bigger issues.

Ok I won’t talk more about dudley george shooting and standoff of Camp Ipperwash 1995

Who is an Indian – here is a good one. The government decides even now, 2001 census less than a million people are indians, but wait there is also non-indians, if you lived in a remote area during the government registration, they could not get to you – hello you are a non-indian. The inuit of canadian arctic has never fallen under the indian act so until 1975, is that year good enough the james bay agreement give them some status.

Walkerton now, and the water systems – a public scandal, a public inquiry, free distribution of water and a overhaul of the water delivery system

Yellowquill now, and the water systems – the first nations have been boiling water for 5 years now. its reservoir is filled with run-off from nearby farms. End this report.

I don’t feel like writing more, but here is the last one if you were born in 1990, following a 6 year investigation the UN found Canada in violation of Lubicon rights under article 27 of International Convenant on Civil and Political Rights. The violations were funded by 9.5 million federal subsidy. Alberta 65.2 million to support access to Lubicon land.

Decide what is racism and how to deal discrimination and corruption

Is English your first language?

those are the very questions that folks practice in order to identify place of orgin so i question your motive and what purpose the identification of language would serve you in this forum.

[Tawasakm]

Argus (sorry its taking me so long to reply this week)

You said:

No one is saying natives should forget who they were. But wanting them to live as they were centuries ago is idiotic. Yet that seems to be the hope many liberals cherish.

Actually I a more interested in what they want for themselves then in what you want for them. That seems condescending.

They need to be integrated into the fabric of Canada, just like the Chinese, the Japanese, the Sikhs, the Carribean Blacks, the African Blacks, and every other cultural, racial and linguistic group which, while retaining awareness and respect for their past, wants to live in the present.

I am not certain they are analagous. The groups you refer to moved to Canada and chose, generally speaking, to adapt to and accept the existing culture. The First People did not do that. They were already there. It is, rather, the case that the Europeans who settled Canada didn't respect the existing culture and behaved in the opposite way to that which you seem to find ideal.

In addition to this I question that your assumption, that this kind of assimilation is necessary, leads anywhere. They have maintained their culture and customs against enormous odds. Given that they have undertaken such efforts and sacrifice what makes you believe they will decide to give it all away now? If they don't then where does that leave you? Forced assimilation? It will blow up in your face. So if this kind of assimilation is simply not going to occur voluntarily then perhaps you should find another solution.

You will never solve the problems of natives as long as you insist on seeing them as something other than Canadians.

I don't believe that any permanent solution is viable if it is undertaken by 'us'. I believe, rather, that the most viable action that 'we' can undertake is to remove the impediments to empowerment for the First People. Because I believe that the only real solution to the plight of the First People needs to be determined by the First People (which have been created over a long period of time by the dominating culture). This is not possible for a group of people who are, largely, disempowered.

I'm afraid I don't have time to read through all the rest right now. I'll get back to this later.

[Argus]

In addition to this I question that your assumption, that this kind of assimilation is necessary, leads anywhere. They have maintained their culture and customs against enormous odds. Given that they have undertaken such efforts and sacrifice what makes you believe they will decide to give it all away now? If they don't then where does that leave you? Forced assimilation? It will blow up in your face. So if this kind of assimilation is simply not going to occur voluntarily then perhaps you should find another solution.

We have two choices. One, we can give them massive, and I mean massive tracts of land to live on so they can, literally, have their own forest industries, their own mining companies, etc. The cost of this would be in the hundreds of billions. Or they can move into more economically viable urban centres, perhaps in some kind of native co-op housing. That's it. If they stay where they are on those reserves they will remain welfare lifers on into the next ten generations.

You will never solve the problems of natives as long as you insist on seeing them as something other than Canadians.

I don't believe that any permanent solution is viable if it is undertaken by 'us'. I believe, rather, that the most viable action that 'we' can undertake is to remove the impediments to empowerment for the First People. Because I believe that the only real solution to the plight of the First People needs to be determined by the First People (which have been created over a long period of time by the dominating culture). This is not possible for a group of people who are, largely, disempowered.

I think their chiefs have already made clear what they want: massive funding increases along with complete and total self government with a free hand so far as spending money, making laws, etc. go. Oh, and with us continuing to pay all the bills forever.

The obvious problem is that if someone else is paying all the bills that someone else is always going to put the limits on how much, and is always going to demand a say in how the money is being spent.