Palestine - Israel issue / Information Pool

[Argus]

Just now, JamesHackerMP said:

Who on the ignore list?

A certain female individual who likes to talk about how many people are on her ignore list.

[JamesHackerMP]

I agree with that, too. 

See, this is why it's best to hear someone out before mocking them.

[Argus]

Just now, JamesHackerMP said:

I agree with that, too. 

See, this is why it's best to hear someone out before mocking them.

But sometimes it's so easy to mock people that you have to put them on your ignore list in order to save yourself from temptation.

[JamesHackerMP]

Indeed.

[Altai]

On 16.01.2017 at 8:47 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

Well, define an "illegal state"? Is America an illegal state? We seized a load of land from the indigenous tribes already living here.  Should the UN call for the disbandment of the United States?

As I said before in my "What do you think about my system ?" topic, I dont believe in the ownership of the lands. We born randomly in the World and the Universe and every single piece of it belongs to humanity but today's World politics is not working in the way of my ideology and we are forced to keep pace with it. Today's World politics are corrupted and existence of illegal state Israel is a perfect example for it. Talking about other countries will eventually derail the topic, I reply for the first and last time, I dont care UN and I dont recognize such Christian organizations, NATO, EU, etc ...


To the all posters, please avoid threat drift. Share your sources or ideas about Palestine - Israel issue. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Altai

[Altai]

On 16.01.2017 at 11:47 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nobody has the right to any land...but they can try to defend possession.   That includes Americans and Canadians.

LoL  your words reminds me a Turkish song,  "Lavinia I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave."  

You have a clear perception of justice but you just reject it for personal interests. You say the world belongs to all of us but but nooo its mineeeeee. I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave 

[JamesHackerMP]

16 hours ago, Altai said:

LoL  your words reminds me a Turkish song,  "Lavinia I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave."  

You have a clear perception of justice but you just reject it for personal interests. You say the world belongs to all of us but but nooo its mineeeeee. I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave 

And we get more mocking.  Very nice.  Speaking of justice, "if you can't play nice don't play at all".  I said nothing of the sort.  I'm sure that's a very nice song, but I've never heard it, which is not surprising considering I do not speak Turkish.

You say that, yet you stated above about the ancestors of the Lebanese having a greater claim on the area than modern Jews, right? I'm confused.

[Ash74]

21 hours ago, Altai said:

As I said before in my "What do you think about my system ?" topic, I dont believe in the ownership of the lands. We born randomly in the World and the Universe and every single piece of it belongs to humanity but today's World politics is not working in the way of my ideology and we are forced to keep pace with it. Today's World politics are corrupted and existence of illegal state Israel is a perfect example for it. Talking about other countries will eventually derail the topic, I reply for the first and last time, I dont care UN and I dont recognize such Christian organizations, NATO, EU, etc ...


To the all posters, please avoid threat drift. Share your sources or ideas about Palestine - Israel issue. 

I miss that thread.

Talking about world domination and peace and love. Wonder what happened to that girl. After I was kicked out of her society she called for all non native inhabitants to leave the western hemisphere. 

She didn't care where we go or if we survived. Nice society plan. Mass murder.

 

Israel is not going anywhere and I bless them for it. Everybody else in the middle east are trying to either kill us or assimilate us into their I must admit sometimes beautiful culture when it is not promising virgins for killing innocent people.

This deep pool thingy is great for telling bar stories but missing proof.

We all proved her society theory was crap and got put on her ignore list.

 

[Altai]

6 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

And we get more mocking.  Very nice.  Speaking of justice, "if you can't play nice don't play at all".  I said nothing of the sort.  I'm sure that's a very nice song, but I've never heard it, which is not surprising considering I do not speak Turkish.

You say that, yet you stated above about the ancestors of the Lebanese having a greater claim on the area than modern Jews, right? I'm confused.

"I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave, if you want me to tell you lies, okay I will tell you lies but it will hurt you. Lavinia please stay with me, I wont tell you not to leave ...... but please dont leave."

While I was searching for Jewish ancestry in the lands, I also saw some interesting researches and articles about genetic studies but currently I dont pay attention for these studies, now I am just focused on the historical claims. There is also claims and studies which offers that current Jewish people and ancient Jewish people are complately different ethnics and have no ties with each other.
 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Altai

[JamesHackerMP]

6 minutes ago, Altai said:

"I wont tell you not to leave but please dont leave, if you want me to tell you lies, okay I will tell you lies but it will hurt you. Lavinia please stay with me, I wont tell you not to leave ...... but please dont leave."

While I was searching for Jewish ancestry in the lands, I also saw some interesting researches and articles about genetic studies but currently I dont pay attention for these studies, now I am just focused on the historical claims. There is also claims and studies which offers that current Jewish people and ancient Jewish people are complately different ethnics and have no ties with each other.
 

What of it?

[Rue]

On 1/17/2017 at 0:57 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

Rue, first of all, I do not agree with Altai's assessment of the State of Israel.  In fact, I disagree with her plenty and have said so.

I believe the State of Israel has a right to exist, I just made that clear in my last couple of responses to Altai.  I also believe that, whatever the ancient pedigree of Jews or anyone living in what one could call "the Levant", what matters is more so the present than the ancient past.  In the present, Israel has won her independence in the 1948 war, and reaffirmed it in a host of other conflicts with her neighbors.  Whether anyone on the planet likes it or not, Israel is here to stay, and rightfully so.

As for my (apparent) complete ignorance on the subject; I've come in contact with Israelis on campus when I was in college, and I've taken international relations courses that included extensive discussions on Israel and its neighbors.  Does that make me as well informed on the subject as someone who lives in the Middle East, or Israel specifically? No.  But I'm far from being ignorant, and very, very far from being hostile or "mocking" toward you or your people.  I might have put things in a way that you would not have, but I'm not Yasser Arafat come back from the grave to mock (or destroy) the People of the State of Israel.  I do not always agree with every action Israel has taken, but I'm not being hostile or mocking, and I support fully Israel's right to exist.  

Actually, I'm wondering whether it's just that you saw I'm from the US and figured "Oh, he must be ignorant of the world.  You know how those yanks are, eh?"  I'm also not Mark Antony.  So sue me for not being as incredibly articulate an orator as yourself.

Now, you can either continue this silly personality conflict you've started between the two of us, or you can calm down and participate in this forum like an adult.  You're not doing your people any good by being rude, especially to someone who hasn't been saying anything nasty about the State of Israel or the Jewish faith in general.  Your knowledge on the subject is certainly impressive and anyone here could benefit from that knowledge, myself included.  But that won't happen if you continue to mock back someone who never did it to you (and/or your People) in the first place.  You're turning people off and not doing Israel any good in the process.

To: the Hon. James Hacker, MP

From: the Less than Honourable Rue.

Re. Mocking Tone

Mr. Hacker. I have turned many people off in my day. It could be my breath, body odour, or a plethora of many other causes. This has been a life long phenomena not just with thou. I apologize if you feel I mocked you. I do not mock thou any more than I mock myself. Trust me on that. I debate those who I think need debating. In your case I very much respect thine last response and I extend thou an olive branch.

Just so thou knowest. I have written in may responses how Israel would not exist without Elenor Roosevelt. This one gentile American is the major reason my people had a place to go after WW2 and single-handedly fought for Israel's existence when the world abandon Jews after WW2. As well it was Harry S. Truman who openly admitted he was an anti-semite, confronted it, and challenged his views after being debated by her who then almost exposed himself to a coups d'etats supporting Israel's creation. His own Sec of State and Vice President and Senate threatened to impeach him and he told them all to phack themselves and did what he thought was the right and fair thing at the time. This is someone who had to make the a-bomb decisions and then later had to remove mad-man McArthur and prevent a nuclear war in Korea. For this reason I believe he is right up there as one of the world's most important leaders of modern times.  The USA is a pivotal reason Israel exists. Eisenhower's strategic intervention in the Suez Canal crisis was diplomacy at its best and I think his having ordered the US Army Engineering Corps to film the concentration camps at the end of WW2 and his visits to them were a crucial element in his understanding Israel was a refuge for Jews and so they always trusted even when he got into disputes with them over the Suez canal. His intervention to this day obtained more for Israel's security than any military operation. I also believe the US  prevented at least 2 and maybe many more nuclear attacks on Israel by Russia in the cold war when Russia controlled Egypt, Iraq and Syria. I believe with the exception of Obama and Hilary Clinton-Kerry, the US has always been its best ally. I also believe Bush Sr. in later life tried genuinely to make amends for his father's anti-semitism and did genuine things for Jews to escape Ethiopia and other places he has kept quiet despite his open closeness to Saudi Arabia. I am pro US on it having a strong role in the world not just for Israel's sake but for the entire world's sake in regards to terrorism. I am a huge supporter of the US Navy and its saving the thousands of lives it has on the high seas since the end of WW2. I am right wing on US foreign policy and openly admire RFK and  Ed Kennedy.

On this forum there has been a lot of crap said against Jews and Zionism so I admit I come on strong in debates on the subject. I just think to isolate the settlement issue from the greater discussion of them being part of an over-all recognition of Israel as a Jewish state and disarming terrorists is intellectually dishonest. All that said, this is my way of explaining to you why I sound like battery acid on this topic.

I do not think you are stupid because you are American. This is a country of Eisenhower, Truman, Eleanor Roosevelt, Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt, Omar Bradley, John McCain, John Glenn, Jand R FK, MLK, Ted Kennedy, Adlai Stevenson,  politicians and military leaders I admire, not to mention the birthplace of Babe Ruth, Jazz, Halle Berry, Blues, Roy Orbison, Ry Cooder, Johnny Cash, Sarah Silverman,  Frank Sinatra, and a place that took in more Jews than any other country including the  3 Stooges and  Marx Brothers without whose contributions I can not imagine the world existing without. That said I have no responsibility for the late Joan Rivers.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Rue

[JamesHackerMP]

On 1/18/2017 at 3:32 AM, Altai said:

 

[JamesHackerMP]

Rue, that's damn decent of you to apologize like that.  I'm impressed with your sense of humility and compassion.  Not many people can do that.  I've gone too far on messages boards before (not here but on others) and always felt that when I did, an apology was the right thing to do.  We're all human and our strong opinions can simultaneously be our strength and our weakness.  I salute you and I fully appreciate your olive branch!

I am also gratified by your appraisal of the efforts of the United States, especially the military, since so many of my friends and family are in it.

As far as the criticism of Israel's foreign policy, I only do so because I want the State of Israel to survive. Probably I am just not very articulate, as I said, and I try to say one thing, and it comes out as another. I don't want to see it "pushed into the Mediterranean" as so many of her neighbors and enemies have sworn to do; and that's exactly what they have sworn to do.  I can understand why Israel reacts to its threats the way it does, but it doesn't always do credit to her People or fully benefit her long-term survival.  We live in a day and age where the television is mightier than the sword.  Both Israel and the United States have to learn how to fight what is now an information and even a propaganda war on many fronts.  Sometimes the Israeli government reacts in such a way as to ignore that fact, and may eventually lose the war, which will be just as disastrous as any losses of men and materiel in a physical war.

Now, Altai, take note: the people who live in Israel now, who were born just this moment, have no way of knowing the ancient history of the Middle East, the modern history or Israel, nor should they be made to answer for it.  They have a right to exist, regardless of who may theoretically "rightfully" own Israel & Palestine based on relation to ancient ethnicity.  I'm not saying the past is irrelevant--as a student of history and political science I hold history in the highest regard and necessity--but the present and future are more important.

[Altai]

16 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

 

Now, Altai, take note: the people who live in Israel now, who were born just this moment, have no way of knowing the ancient history of the Middle East, the modern history or Israel, nor should they be made to answer for it.  They have a right to exist, regardless of who may theoretically "rightfully" own Israel & Palestine based on relation to ancient ethnicity.  I'm not saying the past is irrelevant--as a student of history and political science I hold history in the highest regard and necessity--but the present and future are more important.

Does not mean they can carry on their ancestor's mistake just because they were born there out of their own will. They can leave now and keep living in other countries which supports their ancestor's crimes, so almost all Western countries. US or Canada can give them some stolen lands to establish their states there. You have quite big lands there stolen from other people.

[JamesHackerMP]

Altai, I'm not even going to respond to that kind of hatefulness and hypocrisy.  You do your countrymen no favor by representing them this way.

Edited January 20, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[Ash74]

25 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Altai, I'm not even going to respond to that kind of hatefulness and hypocrisy.  You do your countrymen no favor by representing them this way.

And welcome to the ever increasing ignore list. 

 

[JamesHackerMP]

Wouldn't be the biggest tragedy of all, would it?

[Altai]

1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Altai, I'm not even going to respond to that kind of hatefulness and hypocrisy.  You do your countrymen no favor by representing them this way.

Then dont respond, I dont want you to respond me, I want you to share your sources. Yes I hate criminals like as any other "normal" persons and I am not trying to justify criminal actions like as any other "normal" persons.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Altai

[JamesHackerMP]

Altai, this is a public forum where anyone can respond to posts with the freedom to do so; just as long as they're respectful. You can't just ignore someone because you disagree with them, or they point out a flaw in your reasoning.  If you do so you'll find you will be entirely isolated pretty quickly.

But if you want me to f*** off, I'll ask you one final question.  You said you hate criminal actions....um, is an Israeli child who was just born today a "criminal" by your definition? I asked something similar before and you dodged the question.

While your documentation is impressive, I disagree totally with your interpretation of it.  I am free to do that on this forum.

Edited January 20, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[Altai]

1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Altai, this is a public forum where anyone can respond to posts with the freedom to do so; just as long as they're respectful. You can't just ignore someone because you disagree with them, or they point out a flaw in your reasoning.  If you do so you'll find you will be entirely isolated pretty quickly.

But if you want me to f*** off, I'll ask you one final question.  You said you hate criminal actions....um, is an Israeli child who was just born today a "criminal" by your definition? I asked something similar before and you dodged the question.

While your documentation is impressive, I disagree totally with your interpretation of it.  I am free to do that on this forum.

Ofcourse I can ignore whoever I want. 

Israeli child who was just born there is a victim of his/her own family and he/she is a potential next generation criminal. 


 

[JamesHackerMP]

On 1/18/2017 at 3:32 AM, Altai said:

 

1 hour ago, Altai said:

Ofcourse I can ignore whoever I want. 

Israeli child who was just born there is a victim of his/her own family and he/she is a potential next generation criminal. 


 

An infant? Automatically a next generation criminal? That's no different than one of us saying you're a next-generation criminal based on your religion.  Would that be a fair thing to say? Really, Altai; I used to think you were a bit naive, but I think you've gone too far.  Your bigoted statements have no place on this website.  I have refrained from actually calling you out on that but I shall refrain no longer.  If I were you I'd worry about people blocking you.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ash74 said:

And welcome to the ever increasing ignore list. 

 

Don't the mods get at you for filling all their storage space?

[Altai]

1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said:

An infant? Automatically a next generation criminal? That's no different than one of us saying you're a next-generation criminal based on your religion.  Would that be a fair thing to say? Really, Altai; I used to think you were a bit naive, but I think you've gone too far.  Your bigoted statements have no place on this website.  I have refrained from actually calling you out on that but I shall refrain no longer.  If I were you I'd worry about people blocking you.

Now I will ask a simple question to you and your answer will determine your fate related with my ignore list.

If your father would secretly enter someone's garage in 03.00 AM like a raccoon and would steal their car. Then he would gift this car to you in your birthday. After a few weeks, police would caugh your father and would want to take stolen car which you go to school everyday to show off in front of your friends, what would judge say in the court ? 

A- Yes this car was stolen by his idiot father but this guy didnt know his father stole this car. So we wont give the car to it's real owners and the son of thief can keep using this stolen car.

B- Give the car to the real owners.


Which one you choose ? A or B ?

 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Altai, this is a public forum where anyone can respond to posts with the freedom to do so; just as long as they're respectful. You can't just ignore someone because you disagree with them, or they point out a flaw in your reasoning.  If you do so you'll find you will be entirely isolated pretty quickly.

On the contrary, I have been here many years, and have decided from time to time, especially of late, that certain entities on this site are so lacking, in terms of any meaningful (or sane) contribution, and/or so incapable of engaging in anything remotely resembling respectful (or sane) dialogue, that the best thing for me to do is use the 'ignore' function here in order to not even have to read their ignorant (or insane) rantings. A teenage Muslim nationalist from Turkey who believes and echoes everything Erdorgan says was a fairly obvious inclusion. 

[JamesHackerMP]

B.  But we're talking about something other than stolen cars aren't we? I don't see the parallel.

You want to keep putting people on your ignore list because they disagree with you go ahead.  I don't know why I responded to this thread in the first place.  There is an expression we have in America, never argue with a fool or a drunk.