Why The US Doesn't Respect us

[caesar]

That you have right Tawasakm; too many on this forum don't believe or care about this truth. They just want to kiss and make up so the USA will "like us" Unless, we are willing to and insist upon standing up for Canadian values not what the USA would have us do; how do we expect to have any international respect or self respect. Doing so, may bring us short time pain but I believe will bring long term gains. That does not mean that we should never agree with the USA; but when we have a different opinion or view point; we must stand firm for what the majority of Canadians believe in.

[Argus]

That you have right Tawasakm;  too many on this forum don't believe or care about this truth.

Mrs. Pot? Have you met Mrs. Kettle?

They just want to kiss and make up so the  USA will "like us"  Unless, we are willing to and insist upon standing up for Canadian values not what the USA would have us do;

Who says your "values" are the same as my values? Who says you even know what Canadian values are?

[caesar]

Who says your "values" are the same as my values? Who says you even know what Canadian values are?

I have seen your "values"?????? No they definitely are not the same as mine or the "Majority" of Canadians. In a democracy; majority rules.

[Tawasakm]

This discussion still seems to be centring around an anti vs pro USA debate. Such a debate is important for many reasons - Canada's economic, political and cultural wellbeing etc. In terms of respect, however, I still think it should not be much of an issue. Respect for Canada should be defined by how its own citizens feel about it as a whole. Not on how its citizens feel about its relationship with the USA. It is up to Canada to respect Canada - and without so much reference to other nations perceptions (certainly not ignoring them though).

[Tawasakm]

Mrs. Pot? Have you met Mrs. Kettle?

Just as a matter of interest am I the kettle or the pot?

Don't misunderstand me Argus. I wasn't making an argument on how Canada should or should not deal with the USA. I am making the point that such a debate should not have such an apparently large impact on whether or not Canadians feel respect for themselves. Even if the US does not respect Canada that is not sufficient reason, at all, for Canadians to lose respect for themselves.

The title of the thread was: Why the US doesn't respect us. But then who does?

I'll tell you who should and that is Canadians. I don't think you should ever give someone else so much power to define your respect for yourself and that, to my mind, extends to nations aswell.

[Argus]

Who says your "values" are the same as my values? Who says you even know what Canadian values are?

I have seen your "values"?????? No they definitely are not the same as mine or the "Majority" of Canadians.

What do you know of my values? Perhaps it is that I cherish freedom while you apparently despise it? Perhaps it is that I am not a bigot towards the Americans you so dissaprove of?

And I find it odd you keep repeating this mantra, and so defiantly too: "In a democracy; majority rules."

Does that mean we can burn Jews in ovens and expell visible minorities? After all, in a democracy, Majority rules!

[Black Dog]

Hey, you're the one who sneered at someone for apparently suggesting their wasn't a great deal of difference between the cultures of Arab states. I've now given you two opportunities to back that up by telling us about the differences and you've weaselled out both times. Clearly you don't know a damn thing about Arab culture and what differences there might or might not be between countries in the middle east

For one thing, it's common sense to anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of the area. Just look at the ethnic tensions between Shiites, Sunnis, Kurds and others. Or the Lebanese Muslims, Christians, and Druzes.

So, to say Arab culture is heterogenous is like saying there's no differnce between European or North American cultures. It's a statement born of ignorance and racism.

I don't know as how linking Islam with the terrorism commited by Muslims in the name of Islam is all that racist, certainly not compared to the vitriol seen in Arab media.

It's racist to suggest that the sentiment is shared by the majority of Muslims or Arabs. You don't speak for all 1.6 bllion Muslims, nor do "the terrorists".

I didn't spend a ton of time on it, but I found nothing which even remotely resembles the kinds of things the Arab press has been found to be printing and saying about Jews and Israel.

No. Anti-Muslim racism is far more insidious here. The frequuent equivilance of Islam and terrorism is one example. The gola of racism in the western press is to minimize and obscure instances of western terrorism against other peoples while pumping up the actions of the "other". 9-11 was a great example. Less than 3,000 people died in those attacks, a fraction of those civilians killed in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. Yet those deaths are dismissed as "collateral damage", unfortunate, but justified in the name of freedom. So we have folks like Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Rush Limbaugh, Michael "Savage" free to peddle anti-Muslim rhetoric (withjout ever making the key distinction I mentioned above). As for Israel, there's a potent argument to make that the founding ideology of Israel is predicated on racism, as it calls for the establishment of a state built upon "the principle of the purity of the nation and race".

"There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries, not one village, not one tribe should be left" (Joseph Weitz, 1940).

"There is no choice: the Arabs must make room for the Jews in Eretz Yisrael. If it was possible to transfer the Baltic peoples, it is also possible to move the Palestinian Arabs" (Vladimir Jabotinsky, 1939).

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population.. It is important to speak Hebrew, but it is even more important to be able to shoot - or else I am through at playing with colonizing" (Vladimir Jabotinsky, 1939).

"We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters." (David Ben Gurion).

Such sentiment still exists today (see Weinglasses "formaldahyde", as well as talk to the average Brooklyn accented settler), yet is seldom reported.

[caesar]

What do you know of my values? Perhaps it is that I cherish freedom while you apparently despise it? Perhaps it is that I am not a bigot towards the Americans you so dissaprove of?

And I find it odd you keep repeating this mantra, and so defiantly too: "In a democracy; majority rules."

Does that mean we can burn Jews in ovens and expell visible minorities? After all, in a democracy, Majority rules!

Well you side with the USA on every issue I have seen. You have recently defended child pornograpy. No we don't burn Jews in ovens nor do we murder innocent Iraqis. The Jews are not the only people to be protected. In fact, they are an aggressor in the middle east now. The one leader they had who tried and was making advances in peaceful relations with his Arab neighbours was killed by another Jew. Bring back the Rabins to power. The present leaders in Israel are high on the list of human rights abusers and ignoring UN resolutions. Those few they are confronted with that are not vetoed by the USA.

[shackwacky]

Well you side with the USA on every issue I have seen. You have recently defended child pornograpy.

Actually, if you check out the thread he does not actually defend child pornography. He points out quite rightly that the punishment for owning child pornography has become worse than the punishment for interfering with a child. And that is a ridiculous state of affairs.

[ft.niagara]

Here is a similar thread by Argus which died long ago. Let's get this going again. It died after just over a thousand looks. JBG, yours has over three thousand and counting.

Edited July 14, 2007 by ft.niagara

[Agaric]

It sounds like the poster is talking like an american ...

Gee, Canada is courteous, thoughtful, non-violent, patient, contemplative, peaceful ... what a rotten place! (end sarcasm).

We just need Canadians to stop watching so much american TV, all the points I mentioned are GREAT!

A great country isent based on how many ppl u can piss off or how macho u can act, its based on being smart and trying to work with other countries and focusing on making a good life for its people!!!!!

Some Canadians need to get their heads out of their asses ...

If the u.s. is an asshole why do we think thats something we should be too ?

[ScottSA]

I have seen your "values"?????? No they definitely are not the same as mine or the "Majority" of Canadians. In a democracy; majority rules.

Funny thing about dyed in the wool Liberal party members. They, without exception, make the claim to speak for "Canadian values" and "Canadians." I suppose it started out as a cynical political sales pitch, but these days they seem to actually believe it. The fact that the Liberals are in opposition now and about to take the greatest trouncing of their political existence since Turner doesn't seem to suggest anything to them either...for some reason they still cling to the notion that the GTA speaks for Canada in some way, and that the "majority" of Canadians are the same body politic as existed in 1999.

Canada has aged and matured as a population and is taking a sharp turn to the right, while the left fractures and drifts, and in some cases actually disintegrates. The population is shifting westward into territory known for a strong work ethic and individualism, while the east is losing productivity, becoming ghettoized, and sinking into the inevitable mire of socialized sheepism. Liberal "visions" of multicult have been proven to be empty pipe dreams and even dangerous, and it won't take much of a wakeup call to radicalize the GTA.

Yet for some reason Liberals imagine that things are just the same as they were ten years ago, when passing out a few flags and putting up posters of smiling multicoloured faces and slapping a few happyisms like "vibrant" and "diverse" was quite enough to keep everyone obliviously shuffling along in rightthink line. Poll Canadians today and I expect you'll find that "Canadian values" are not exactly what you think they are.

[Agaric]

Funny thing about dyed in the wool Liberal party members. They, without exception, make the claim to speak for "Canadian values" and "Canadians." I suppose it started out as a cynical political sales pitch, but these days they seem to actually believe it. The fact that the Liberals are in opposition now and about to take the greatest trouncing of their political existence since Turner doesn't seem to suggest anything to them either...for some reason they still cling to the notion that the GTA speaks for Canada in some way, and that the "majority" of Canadians are the same body politic as existed in 1999.

Canada has aged and matured as a population and is taking a sharp turn to the right, while the left fractures and drifts, and in some cases actually disintegrates. The population is shifting westward into territory known for a strong work ethic and individualism, while the east is losing productivity, becoming ghettoized, and sinking into the inevitable mire of socialized sheepism. Liberal "visions" of multicult have been proven to be empty pipe dreams and even dangerous, and it won't take much of a wakeup call to radicalize the GTA.

Yet for some reason Liberals imagine that things are just the same as they were ten years ago, when passing out a few flags and putting up posters of smiling multicoloured faces and slapping a few happyisms like "vibrant" and "diverse" was quite enough to keep everyone obliviously shuffling along in rightthink line. Poll Canadians today and I expect you'll find that "Canadian values" are not exactly what you think they are.

Maybe because most Canadians ARE liberal minded?

Yay, gee we can only hope that Canada becomes more violent, bullying, religious and fascist as the u.s., boy the west is going to change Canada, yay !

Funny how most conservatives in Canada have this perception that peace and fairness and equality are evil ...

Like they dream of the day were gays could be openly ridiculed, when our population is full of religious people, when abortion could be made illegal, when we could privatize everything, including water, etc etc etc ...

Tell me thats not you but ive heard the same story before, Canadian conservatives are simply Canadian versions of the same fascists that exist in the u.s., you dont stand a chance of pushing ur agenda anymore then we are going to allow women to become property again (No matter how much conservatives think women have too many rights today) ...

[ScottSA]

Maybe because most Canadians ARE liberal minded?

Yay, gee we can only hope that Canada becomes more violent, bullying, religious and fascist as the u.s., boy the west is going to change Canada, yay !

Funny how most conservatives in Canada have this perception that peace and fairness and equality are evil ...

Like they dream of the day were gays could be openly ridiculed, when our population is full of religious people, when abortion could be made illegal, when we could privatize everything, including water, etc etc etc ...

Tell me thats not you but ive heard the same story before, Canadian conservatives are simply Canadian versions of the same fascists that exist in the u.s., you dont stand a chance of pushing ur agenda anymore then we are going to allow women to become property again (No matter how much conservatives think women have too many rights today) ...

I'm sorry, but your level of discourse is a little shallower than I had first given it credit for. As soon as someone trots out "fascist" as the alternative to liberalism (since you don't actually seem to know the difference between a 'Liberal' and a 'liberal' and have gone in an entirely different direction), I already know that what's coming is a 12th grade alternative school diatribe. Sorry I bothered you...carry on.

[Agaric]

I'm sorry, but your level of discourse is a little shallower than I had first given it credit for. As soon as someone trots out "fascist" as the alternative to liberalism (since you don't actually seem to know the difference between a 'Liberal' and a 'liberal' and have gone in an entirely different direction), I already know that what's coming is a 12th grade alternative school diatribe. Sorry I bothered you...carry on.

Dont let the door hit ur ass on the way out ...

Honestly I dont know if ur as much of a nut as Harper but ur comment about mexicans as "third world trouble" already has a pretty good picture painted, im sure ur quite proud of it and I can only feel pity for those who hold views like that.