August1991 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) I understand Obama's pretend shctick for the hometown leftist audience. But IMHO, no US President should ever apologize anywhere in Japan until also a Japanese Emperor kneels in Nanking, or Manchuria. Like Brandt, on Japanese TV. ====== What is truly sad (it happens in life) is the playing card that so many men gave this sitting US president; and the strong card he's been dealt but he is playing so foolishly. Edited May 24, 2016 by August1991 Quote
msj Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 He's not apologizing so the basis of this thread is groundless. Oh, right.... Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
August1991 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Posted May 24, 2016 He's not apologizing so the basis of this thread is groundless. Oh, right.... Make no mistake, Obama is apologizing. ==== Apology? msj, I want to see the Japanese Emperor do what Willy Brandt did. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 Putting the atomic flame to these two targets should carry no further regrets. Operation Olympic was coming....Japan dodged the real bullet. The Marines were super pizzed by then... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
TimG Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) But IMHO, no US President should ever apologize anywhere in Japan until also a Japanese Emperor kneels in Nanking, or Manchuria. Like Brandt, on Japanese TVExcept that is not possible because the facts have been so distorted by both sides that there are no agreed facts which could be used as a basis for an apology. A one point the Japanese reached out to the Chinese to try and come up with a joint statement of facts based on the best research but the Chinese quickly realized that large parts of their "story" were fiction and the truth was likely somewhere between the two narratives. The Chinese immediately abandoned the effort because they had no interest in reconciliation. The only reason the Germans were able to apologize in the way that they did is because the victims were interested in facts and reconciliation. This is not true in Asia and may never be true in Asia. Edited May 24, 2016 by TimG Quote
DogOnPorch Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 The Japanese have more than just Nanking to account for re: war crimes. Singapore, Bataan, Batavia, etc. But, the Allies got their revenge more than a few times, themselves. A particularly dirty war, the Pacific. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
TimG Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) The Japanese have more than just Nanking to account for re: war crimes. Singapore, Bataan, Batavia, etc. But, the Allies got their revenge more than a few times, themselves. A particularly dirty war, the Pacific.Yet, the Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia et. al have more or less accepted the numerous apologies and monetary payments that have already been made because these countries decided that they wanted reconciliation. The important thing about apologies is there are always two sides. Without both sides co-operating there can be no apology. Edited May 24, 2016 by TimG Quote
DogOnPorch Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 Ancient enemies. I doubt we can fathom it in Canada these days... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baekgang Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
BubberMiley Posted May 24, 2016 Report Posted May 24, 2016 Make no mistake, Obama is apologizing.You're mistaken. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
August1991 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) You're mistaken. If Obama can kneel before a Saudi king or go to speak in Hiroshima... Then Abe should also kneel down in Pearl Harbour, as well as the current Emperor, Akihoto. ===== Make no mistake, bubbler, about what makes our current world so civilized. Edited May 26, 2016 by August1991 Quote
msj Posted May 26, 2016 Report Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) If Obama can kneel before a Saudi king or go to speak in Hiroshima... Is kneeling before a king the same thing as G.W. Bush kissing one? This pesky customs! Edited May 26, 2016 by msj Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
August1991 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Is kneeling before a king the same thing as G.W. Bush kissing one? This pesky customs! Whatever. I have no partison dog in this US debate. ==== I simply think that we now live in a civilised world because we (enlightened people) showed idiots that we are stronger, smarter, civilized. And with idiots, you often have to show them that they are idiots. Edited May 26, 2016 by August1991 Quote
msj Posted May 26, 2016 Report Posted May 26, 2016 And with idiots, you often have to show them that they are idiots. Or prove it by starting threads without any veracity.... Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
August1991 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Or prove it by starting threads without any veracity....msj, the Western world (the Enlightenment) is worth defending. We in the West have no reason to apologize until the idiots admit their idiocy. Edited May 26, 2016 by August1991 Quote
msj Posted May 26, 2016 Report Posted May 26, 2016 msj, the Western world (the Enlightenment) is worth defending.We in the West have no reason to apologize until the idiots admit their idiocy. "We" are not apologizing. "We" should apologize for starting a speculative thread based on nothing than a lie that "we" are apologizing when Obama has clearly stated that he ain't. Admitting one is wrong is a sign of honesty and strength. Making stuff up is a sign of idiocy. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
msj Posted May 27, 2016 Report Posted May 27, 2016 Oh look! A speech: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/asia/text-of-president-obamas-speech-in-hiroshima-japan.html?_r=0 With no apology to be found. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
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