Iraq Thanksgiving Prayer

[MapleBear]

Millions of Americans will feast on turkey on Thanksgiving, as usual. But the thoughts of millions will be elsewhere - notably in Iraq. They'll be thinking of people who are risking - and often losing - their lives in a struggle that often seems hopeless. They fight for honor, dignity and essential freedoms.

Life has never been the same since foreign terrorists first drew blood on their soil. Can they ever be safe from religious extremists who possess weapons of mass destruction?

I, too, will be thinking of the Iraqi patriots who have made Fallujah a better symbol of valor than the Alamo. God bless them.

[August1991]

I had my Thanksgiving dinner several weeks ago, MB. You are welcome to post here but it would be appreciated if you would at least show some awareness of the fact that it's a Canadian political forum.

They fight for honor, dignity and essential freedoms.

What essential freedoms are the Iraqi patriots fighting for?

I suspect you take their side not because you favour it but as a way to express your anti-Americanism. It's always all about the United States. Talk about being self-centred.

[MapleBear]

I had my Thanksgiving dinner several weeks ago, MB. You are welcome to post here but it would be appreciated if you would at least show some awareness of the fact that it's a Canadian political forum.

I'm perfectly aware that this forum is Canadian; that's why it interested me at first; I thought it might be a little better than most American forums - assuming it isn't an "operative" or hasn't been taken over by conservatives.

But U.S. politics is a big topic on this forum, and there are obviously Americans who post here. Moreover, I posted this particular thread in the international section, so I don't know what you're complaining about.

They fight for honor, dignity and essential freedoms.

What essential freedoms are the Iraqi patriots fighting for?

National sovereignty. The right to control their natural resources (particularly oil). The right to go to bed knowing their homes won't be blown up in the middle of the night.

I suspect you take their side not because you favour it but as a way to express your anti-Americanism.

That's the icing on the cake.

It's always all about the United States. Talk about being self-centred.

Supporting Iraqi patriots is self-centered???

[Argus]

What essential freedoms are the Iraqi patriots fighting for?

National sovereignty. The right to control their natural resources (particularly oil). The right to go to bed knowing their homes won't be blown up in the middle of the night.

Uhm, maybe you haven't heard, but there's an election there soon. All they have to do is vote, and once the bombs stop exploding the Americans will be delighted to leave.

But no, they're not fighting for democracy, and not for national sovereignty. They're fighting for the right to burn their neighbours to death for not believing in the same God as them. They're fighting for the right to torture and execute anyone who fails to wear their beard to the prescribed length. They're fighting for the right to beat women to death for showing their faces or hair. They're fighting for the right to keep their society in tenth century ignorance. They're fighting, for the most part, on behalf of a book most have never read - being largely illiterate - and will never understand. And because they've been told that dying in "holy war" will get them 72 virgins in paradise.

They're ignorant, unsophisticated religious fanatics and criminal rabble.

[Black Dog]

Uhm, maybe you haven't heard, but there's an election there soon. All they have to do is vote, and once the bombs stop exploding the Americans will be delighted to leave.

Uhm...maybe you haven't heard, but there's a significant portion of Iraqi society who are boycotting the elections because they believe (with good reason) that they will be a sham. Furthermore, maybe you haven't heard, but the U.S. is building fourteen permenant military bases in Iraq. they aren't leaving. Ever.

But no, they're not fighting for democracy, and not for national sovereignty. They're fighting for the right to burn their neighbours to death for not believing in the same God as them. They're fighting for the right to torture and execute anyone who fails to wear their beard to the prescribed length. They're fighting for the right to beat women to death for showing their faces or hair. They're fighting for the right to keep their society in tenth century ignorance. They're fighting, for the most part, on behalf of a book most have never read - being largely illiterate - and will never understand. And because they've been told that dying in "holy war" will get them 72 virgins in paradise.

And you are basing this on...what, exactly?

The reality is the insurgency is not homogenous, but quite diverse as this inventory of Iraqi resistance groups (by Iraqis) shows.

They're ignorant, unsophisticated religious fanatics and criminal rabble.

As apt a description for the U.S. troops as any I've yet read.

[Argus]

Uhm, maybe you haven't heard, but there's an election there soon. All they have to do is vote, and once the bombs stop exploding the Americans will be delighted to leave.

Uhm...maybe you haven't heard, but there's a significant portion of Iraqi society who are boycotting the elections because they believe (with good reason) that they will be a sham.

Sure, with a bazillion international observers there all just salivating at the chance to call them unfair. I guarantee you they will be more fair than any other elections ever held in the middle east - outside Israel. The time to bitch about an election is AFTER the election is held if there is evidence of unfairness. You don't boycott an election on the suspicion they might be.

Furthermore, maybe you haven't heard, but the U.S. is building fourteen permenant military bases in Iraq. they aren't leaving. Ever.

Oh bullshit. The US is spending a mint keeping those troops in Iraq, and the public's patience is wearing thin. If there aren't significant troop reductions shortly after an Iraq government is installed the Republicans will be creamed at the mid-term elections.

But no, they're not fighting for democracy, and not for national sovereignty. They're fighting for the right to burn their neighbours to death for not believing in the same God as them. They're fighting for the right to torture and execute anyone who fails to wear their beard to the prescribed length. They're fighting for the right to beat women to death for showing their faces or hair. They're fighting for the right to keep their society in tenth century ignorance. They're fighting, for the most part, on behalf of a book most have never read - being largely illiterate - and will never understand. And because they've been told that dying in "holy war" will get them 72 virgins in paradise.

And you are basing this on...what, exactly?

Gee, their behaviour, their words, the harrangues of their leaders?

[MapleBear]

Oh bullshit. The US is spending a mint keeping those troops in Iraq, and the public's patience is wearing thin. If there aren't significant troop reductions shortly after an Iraq government is installed the Republicans will be creamed at the mid-term elections.

The Republicans control Congress, the Supreme Court and, apparently, the CIA. Corporations control the media - including most of the so-called liberal media. The Republicans have voting machines in their corner. Have you heard of "redistricting"?

The only party that can challenge the Republicans is the Democratic Party, which is also corrupt. Look at the lame campaigns ran by Al Gore and John Kerry, both of whom may have very well been working for the Republicans. One of the classiest Democrats was Paul Wellstone, and look what happened to him.

Frankly, I don't think the Republicans have to worry about elections ever again. Elections are now nothing more than a formality, similar to those fur hats British royal guards wear.

[Black Dog]

Sure, with a bazillion international observers there all just salivating at the chance to call them unfair. I guarantee you they will be more fair than any other elections ever held in the middle east - outside Israel. The time to bitch about an election is AFTER the election is held if there is evidence of unfairness. You don't boycott an election on the suspicion they might be

Nor is the an election in any way meaningful simply by the fact of its occurance.

I wouldn't expect you to be aware of, or even interested in, the changes made by the CPA and the interim government which permenantly keep important decisions about Iraq's economic, and political future out of the hands of future Iraqi governments.

Oh bullshit. The US is spending a mint keeping those troops in Iraq, and the public's patience is wearing thin. If there aren't significant troop reductions shortly after an Iraq government is installed the Republicans will be creamed at the mid-term elections.

Well, there's no way they'll be maintaing 180,000 troop sin Iraq after the "elections". But they are most definitely staying.

Long-term military presence planned

Gee, their behaviour, their words, the harrangues of their leaders?

Or perhaps your own predjudices and appetite for right-wing rhetoric?

[Argus]

I wouldn't expect you to be aware of, or even interested in, the changes made by the CPA and the interim government which permenantly keep important decisions about Iraq's economic, and political future out of the hands of future Iraqi governments.

Suppose you tell me, then.

Well, there's no way they'll be maintaing 180,000 troop sin Iraq after the "elections". But they are most definitely staying.

Long-term military presence planned

Uhm, yeah, for 2 years.

Gee, their behaviour, their words, the harrangues of their leaders?

Or perhaps your own predjudices and appetite for right-wing rhetoric?

Hey, they'll be just as happy to saw through your neck too, despite your "pro Arab" left wing rhetoric.

[caesar]

But no, they're not fighting for democracy, and not for national sovereignty. They're fighting for the right to burn their neighbours to death for not believing in the same God as them. They're fighting for the right to torture and execute anyone who fails to wear their beard to the prescribed length. They're fighting for the right to beat women to death for showing their faces or hair. They're fighting for the right to keep their society in tenth century ignorance. They're fighting, for the most part, on behalf of a book most have never read - being largely illiterate - and will never understand. And because they've been told that dying in "holy war" will get them 72 virgins in paradise.

They're ignorant, unsophisticated religious fanatics and criminal rabble.

That is the worst racist bigotted statement that I have seen on any forum. You are unbelievable

The Americans are invading a foreign country without ANY just cause.

[caesar]

Maple bear, you are, I presume an American. Welcome. I know there are many more Americans who believe the same as you.

[Argus]

But no, they're not fighting for democracy, and not for national sovereignty. They're fighting for the right to burn their neighbours to death for not believing in the same God as them. They're fighting for the right to torture and execute anyone who fails to wear their beard to the prescribed length. They're fighting for the right to beat women to death for showing their faces or hair. They're fighting for the right to keep their society in tenth century ignorance. They're fighting, for the most part, on behalf of a book most have never read - being largely illiterate - and will never understand. And because they've been told that dying in "holy war" will get them 72 virgins in paradise.

They're ignorant, unsophisticated religious fanatics and criminal rabble.

That is the worst racist bigotted statement that I have seen on any forum. You are unbelievable

All you are demonstrating is that you are ignorant of the definitions of the terms you use - as you are fairly clearly ignorant in virtually everything else you write.

[Argus]

Maple bear, you are, I presume an American. Welcome. I know there are many more Americans who believe the same as you.

Yes, there are a lot of Americans who believe Elvis is still alive, too. Their conspiracy theories to explain this tend to be more believable than Maple Bear's, though.

[MapleBear]

Maple bear, you are, I presume an American.  Welcome.  I know there are many more Americans who believe the same as you.

Caesae...

Maple bear, you are, I presume an American. Welcome. I know there are many more Americans who believe the same as you.

Thanks. Yes, there are reportedly many Americans who believe as I do. I just wish they were more outspoken, and I wish they gave a damn about local elections! Most U.S. citizens like to talk about the problems without lifting a finger to solve them. They sit on their hands for four years, vote for their favorite presidential candidate, then wait four more years to get involved again.

Yes, there are a lot of Americans who believe Elvis is still alive, too. Their conspiracy theories to explain this tend to be more believable than Maple Bear's, though.

So you see conspiracy theories on this thread, do you? Interesting...

[Stoker]

Yes, there are a lot of Americans who believe Elvis is still alive, too. Their conspiracy theories to explain this tend to be more believable than Maple Bear's, though.

He isn't? What about Jim Morrison?

So you see conspiracy theories on this thread, do you? Interesting...

Don't you? The majoirty of your posts appear to have a (un)healthy portion of "Brain Gravy" laced with in them....

I like the Kutcher........

[caesar]

Unfortunately, we have a lot of blood thirsty racist bigots here in Canada. too. If you are not Christian of Jewish; you don't matter Or that we must lick the boots of the USA whatever actions they take. When they are wrong they are wrong. Fortunately, I am on the side of the majority that do not advocate violence, wars and invasion except as a last step.

As for Argus and Stoker they have closed minds and refuse to listen to common sense; ignore when they or Bush have been proven wrong. Not worth worrying about.

Killing innocent Iraqis on bogus reasoning with no just cause is just as bad as killing innocent Americans or Canadian. We are all just people.

[August1991]

Yes, there are a lot of Americans who believe Elvis is still alive, too. Their conspiracy theories to explain this tend to be more believable than Maple Bear's, though.

He isn't? What about Jim Morrison?

Elvis is dead. And so is Michael Jackson.

I have proof that there is a large conspiracy to make it look as if Jacko is still a live. He's not. He died two years ago and we are now seeing virtual images created by computer. (The Clintons know all about this but they are keeping quiet because Hillary wants Jackson to endorse her in 2008.)

Check out my website www.whacko.com for the proof. BTW, I also explain there how Jackson's death, and the cover-up, are connected to Seattle's education system.

[MapleBear]

Elvis is dead. And so is Michael Jackson.

Too bad. I thought Michael Jackson would make a good running mate for George W. Bush in 2008, especially since Dick Cheney may not be alive.

[Argus]

Unfortunately, we have a lot of blood thirsty racist bigots here in Canada. too.  If you are not Christian of Jewish; you don't matter  Or that we must lick the boots of the USA whatever actions they take.  When they are wrong they are wrong.

What an unfortunate and cliche'd view of those who disagree with your opinions.

  Fortunately, I am on the side of the majority that do not advocate violence, wars and invasion except as a last step.

Yes, you are so very noble. I am in awe.

As for Argus and Stoker they have closed minds and refuse to listen to common sense;

So to you anyone who disagrees with your simplistic and poorly thought-out policial beliefs has a "closed mind". I wonder if you have ever considered the possibility that people who disagree with you do so because they simply are smarter than you and/or have more knowledge and wisdom than you.

[Black Dog]

QUOTE 

Well, there's no way they'll be maintaing 180,000 troop sin Iraq after the "elections". But they are most definitely staying.

Long-term military presence planned

Uhm, yeah, for 2 years.

Uh. No. The troops stationed there would be there for two years. The bases would be there in perpetuity.

Gee, their behaviour, their words, the harrangues of their leaders?

Or perhaps your own predjudices and appetite for right-wing rhetoric?

Hey, they'll be just as happy to saw through your neck too, despite your "pro Arab" left wing rhetoric.

Then I guess i better not invade thier counties then.

Of course you've completely diregarded the FACT that large portions of the insurgency have rejected kidnaping and execution of noncombatants as a tactic. But I suppose you're consistent in rejecting any information taht doesn't conform to your pre-existing beliefs.

I wonder if you have ever considered the possibility that people who disagree with you do so because they simply are smarter than you and/or have more knowledge and wisdom than you.

I haven't seen any evidence of this here.