The Budget

[Smallc]

I'm sure they would have found something to complain about, but balancing the budget and cutting spending was specifically what the CPC was calling for prior to the budget's release.

Canadians didn't vote for that.

[dre]

I'm sure they would have found something to complain about, but balancing the budget and cutting spending was specifically what the CPC was calling for prior to the budget's release. They wouldn't complain if it happened, but they probably would claim to have influenced the about-face.

Yeah but implementing austerity policies in a soft economy probably would have been a short term economic disaster and caused a deep recession. Once that happened conservatives would set apon this government like flies on a rotting corpse and howled from the rooftop that every single thing he did was wrong.

[Cl Le]

Canadians didn't vote for that.

Canadians didn't vote for a 30 billion dollar deficit , the Liberals said 3 years at 10 billion per . The Liberals lied and will be shown the exit in 2019 . Canadian tax payers are not impressed but we also hold the 38 % who have sold our kids out as well . I would advise any who voted Liberal to keep it to yourself , especially in the West .

[dre]

Yep just spend money you don't have now, decide if it was a good idea later.

For better or worse that's how the west was built. And even based on current projections (117 billion, which is wrong and way too high), Canada will still come out the other end of that with one of the best national debt positions in the industrial world and a lower debt/gdp ratio than when they took over.

This is a relatively unremarkable and centrist budget. They are spending LESS than they were elected to spend.

[Smallc]

Canadians didn't vote for a 30 billion dollar deficit , the Liberals said 3 years at 10 billion per .

Canadians will understand that the situation is worse than originally thought...plus, there's probably about $10B worth of caution built into that number.

[Cl Le]

For better or worse that's how the west was built. And even based on current projections (117 billion, which is wrong and way too high), Canada will still come out the other end of that with one of the best national debt positions in the industrial world and a lower debt/gdp ratio than when they took over.

This is a relatively unremarkable and centrist budget. They are spending LESS than they were elected to spend.

Comparing Canada to a bunch of other sick countries and say well we aren't on life support yet is little consolation . Canadian tax payers need to hold all level of governments accountable , in particular Eastern Canada where there is more of a tendency to accept big government and all their trappings .

[dre]

Canadians will understand that the situation is worse than originally thought...plus, there's probably about $10B worth of caution built into that number.

6 billion actually.

That's actually the one problem I have with this budget... The liberals projections are based on a very pessimistic view of our economy over the next few years. And to paint such a gloomy picture at a time when Canadians already have the lowest level of economic confidence in more than 20 years, seems a bit irresponsible. It could actually have a negative impact on the economy by reinforcing the view held by most Canadians that we are in for tough economic times.

You're supposed to put on a brave face and lie if you think things are going to be bad. The markets don't like gloomy public statements.

[Smallc]

6 billion actually.

Yes, there's a $6B contingency, but even taking that out, the numbers are based on the most pessimistic growth forecasts. I really don't think they should be lowballing as much as they are.

[BC_chick]

The deficit is THREE TIMES bigger than what was promised.

Agreed, completely unacceptable.

[cybercoma]

Yes, there's a $6B contingency, but even taking that out, the numbers are based on the most pessimistic growth forecasts. I really don't think they should be lowballing as much as they are.

1% is about right.

[Cl Le]

2019 can't come fast enough . The most misguided and short sighted budget I have seen in my lifetime. I wonder what Trudeau and Morneau will do for a living when Canadian tax payers show them the exit in 2019 . One thing is for sure , they won't find work in the private sector and if they did I doubt the company would survive long with hires like that.

[dre]

Yes, there's a $6B contingency, but even taking that out, the numbers are based on the most pessimistic growth forecasts. I really don't think they should be lowballing as much as they are.

That's what I meant yeah... the pessimistic forecasts. Private sector economists are predicting 6B less per year for the deficits than the government projects.

As I said... it seems a little dangerous to be so pessimistic. Usually central economic planners use the "never let them see you sweat" approach. If you scare people you can actually make things worse.

[TimG]

The G&M summarizes why this budget is a disaster in the making:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/budget-2016-wait-wasnt-this-supposed-to-be-about-infrastructure/article29350701/

The vast majority of the planned new spending is not investment. It’s not building roads or bridges or public transit. It’s ongoing program spending, locked-in and permanent. And it’s mostly about writing cheques to seniors, parents, aboriginal Canadians, the unemployed and provincial governments.

By expanding the entitlement state with no exit plan Justin is undoing all of the work that Chretien did in the 90s. And we will eventually hit a debt wall as we did before and people will be whining about about the much larger cuts to programs that will be necessary. It is an irresponsible binge that is not justified give the current economic climate. Edited March 23, 2016 by TimG

[Martin Chriton]

This budget is - hugely - good for me personally, so, thumbs up.

It's bleak for me. I emigrated from Canada to the US but like the idea of moving back eventually. Through a combination of less friendly tax code, exchange rate and lower salaries my net income would be reduced by half.

I'm in the top 1% earners in the US and 0.01% in Canada. Canadian tax code competitiveness shortfalls includes missing incoming splitting, mortgage income deduction, tax rates are higher, and missing child support deductions.

For those in tech, the valley is booming. It's an EXCELLENT time relocate from Canada to US.

[Smallc]

That's what I meant yeah... the pessimistic forecasts. Private sector economists are predicting 6B less per year for the deficits than the government projects.

I guess I'm saying that even private sector economists are being somewhat pessimistic.

[Topaz]

Bonam, what I'm saying is the media is saying its really bad deficit and can't see a way out yet, I heard one media person say there is a chance they could pull out a surplus if oil picks up and the economy and since we don't know the future holds I'm waiting for the next election to see the out come of their plan.

[PIK]

What burns me is the money going to the natives ,can be spent any why the want. And in 4 yrs I will bet we will see no changes except the chiefs be living in bigger homes and newer cars. Single people get no help what so ever and the middle class which IMO does not suffer in this country gets most of it. And now the poor cant even get help with sports for their kids. But lets remember budgets balance themselves.

Edited March 23, 2016 by PIK

[Argus]

The budgets is about what everyone expected. One thing that's interesting is that the targets are so conservative. The deficit numbers are based on the governments growth forecasts which are much lower than forecasts by private sector economists. Seems like they are intentionally setting the bar really low. Likely deficits over the next 6 years are more likely to 80-90 billion.

The growth forecasts for years 5 and 6 are so high, as Jeffrey Simpson describes them, achieving that level would be 'miraculous'.

Of course, those come AFTER the next election, so it really doesn't matter if we don't meet them.

[Argus]

Well, that's a relief. For a minute there I thought the Liberals were spending more than taxpayers could afford.

We currently spend just under $25 billion a year on interest on the debt. Current Liberal plans will increase that by another $10 billion.

[Argus]

This budget is - hugely - good for me personally, so, thumbs up.

And there you have the mentality of the Liberal supporter.

[Argus]

I remember a government that ran $130B in deficits within the last decade. I didn't complain about them, because it made sense then, just like now.

As Trudeau and his father before him have demonstrated, rapidly increasing the deficit is easy and takes no time at all. Eliminating deficits takes considerably more time and effort. It took Chretien over 5 years to get back to a balance, with much bloodletting. It took Harper several years to get back to a balanced budget after the massive deficits forced on him by the opposition. There is no sign of even an interest in balancing the budget here, so we can expect that, like his father, Trudeau will have much more interest in spending than in cutting spending.

Harper should have let the opposition take over back in 2008/9. In retrospect, it was a huge mistake to let them pressure him into huge budget deficits. That has given the progressive types something of a free pass to be as spendthrift as they want, while sneering at anyone who complains by pointing out the deficits under Harper (which of course, they take zero responsibility for).

Edited March 23, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

So.... who amassed most of Canada's debt?

Pierre Trudeau, who doubled spending in his first term of office, then doubled it again in his second term. Like his sun, it was all "Sunny ways" and free money. "Don't worry1 It's free! You won't have to pay for any of it!"

Then along came double digit inflation. Whoops! Interest payments on the debt skyrocketed, which required more borrowing in the midst of a new recession. Mulroney had to spend $40 billion a year just on interest on the debt, which is the equivalent of something like $60 billion today. Little wonder he couldn't balance a budget. It wasn't until 5 years into the Chretien mandate, a booming US economy, and major bloodletting, that we got back to balance.

[Argus]

Why is there so much crying and whining about a budget and spending that was promised during the campaign and now has been delivered?

They promised two years of $10 billion deficits, not $113 billion deficit over four years, with no return to balance.

[waldo]

What burns me is the money going to the natives ,can be spent any why the want.

no - increased funding for First Nations is directed toward education, housing, child welfare and water quality... quit making shyte up!

.

[Argus]

Not only that but the forecast is based on much lower growth than we will probably see... at least according to most economists. So the deficit projections are 6 billion per year lower than we will probably see.

Unlikely. All this means is they're giving themselves room to spend even more if the projections are lower. They still need to fund every single recommendation from the native commission, remember, plus carbon emissions reductions.