Criticizing religion.

[Guest]

The problem is what is it that "is"? The Donald is trying to tell people that he is telling it like it is. David Duke is telling people that he is telling it like it is. Ayman al-Zawahiri and Bin Laden both told people that they were telling it like it is.

All these folks are happy to tell it like it is and let others decide if they want to hate or not.

Yes, so are you, Justin Trudeau and the Dalai Lama. At least I usually have a link. Sometimes.

Should people be banned from free speech because people might be offended? I would say no, and I'm sure there aren't many who would disagree.

The question is, where does the incitement to hate come in? If I tell you about some awful people, I don't care if you hate them. If you decide to hate their cousins, and their cousin's tennis partners as well, that's not my fault, and I'm not going to shut up because it might happen.

Of course, if it can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt that that was my intention, that would be different.

[Big Guy]

I agree with you. That is why statements that are racist, misogynist, prejudicial, xenophobic are not against the law.

I have a question for you - If a person denies that the Second World War never took place or that those buildings were not knocked down during 9/11 or that the earth revolves around the moon we consider them ill informed and move on. But if a person denies that an event like the Holocaust ever took place we can put him in Jail?

[Guest]

I agree with you. That is why statements that are racist, misogynist, prejudicial, xenophobic are not against the law.

I have a question for you - If a person denies that the Second World War never took place or that those buildings were not knocked down during 9/11 or that the earth revolves around the moon we consider them ill informed and move on. But if a person denies that an event like the Holocaust ever took place we can put him in Jail?

We shouldn't. I've never been able to understand that position on Holocaust denial. Just show them a picture.

[Argus]

First of all this is not a Christian country but belongs to all religions and races who are citizens of this country equally.

Our work week, our holidays, and most of our laws are based on Judeo-Christian religious principals. Our culture has developed from those same principals.

Now considering the civilized fact that respect for individuals and fellow citizens is necessary and disrespect should and is against the law

Respect is neither necessary in all cases, nor is disrespect against the law, in any cases.

then there is a limit to what can be said or acted upon in any advanced society.

The limit on what can be said is what might tend to cause violence. Period. Hurt feelings don't count.

[kimmy]

A key point that many seem to have difficulty is that there's a difference between "criticism" and "willful promotion of hatred."

-k

[taxme]

I would say that when Canada started up it was mainly a Christian, straight, and Caucasian country. That was all changed thanks to our present day Liberal immigration policy, and of the promotion of multiculturalism and it becoming the law of the land, and having been forced on those people mentioned above. Thanks to those two programs and agendas, Canada has been turned into the world. A country cannot continue to drown itself in all the different cultures and languages and religions and expect unity. Multiculturalism will promote division. I see it happening today.

A country has to be unique. When one visits Japan or China or India or Germany they are visiting a country with a heritage, a culture, traditions, it has a main religion and a main language. Canada does not have this uniqueness that it once had anymore. We now have dozens of different traditions, cultures, heritages, religions and languages, and all are starting to build up their own turf. We have China towns, we have Punjabi towns, we have Korean towns, we have so many third world towns popping up that tourists are going to ask one day, what is unique about Canada? Canada is now unique alright. It may look Christian, straight and Caucasian for now but that is changing fast. When I read stories about how the Caucasian people, in all Caucasian countries will soon be heading for minority status, I think that it is time to start giving this some thought, and start doing something about it fast otherwise we are doomed as a people. And when someone or some group tries to do something about it, the media and politicians go into attack mode. They are labelled everything under the sun to try and make them look nasty and racist, and of course the people will believe the lies being spread.

Canada is just not the country that I once grew up in anymore. Just my opinion, of course.

[kimmy]

I would say that when Canada started up it was mainly a Christian, straight, and Caucasian country. That was all changed thanks to our present day Liberal immigration policy, and of the promotion of multiculturalism and it becoming the law of the land, and having been forced on those people mentioned above.

What's being forced on straight white Christians?

Are they being forced to turn gay? Turn brown? Abandon religion?

-k

[Big Guy]

I would say that when Canada started up it was mainly a Christian, straight, and Caucasian country. That was all changed thanks to our present day Liberal immigration policy, and of the promotion of multiculturalism and it becoming the law of the land, and having been forced on those people mentioned above. Thanks to those two programs and agendas, Canada has been turned into the world. A country cannot continue to drown itself in all the different cultures and languages and religions and expect unity. Multiculturalism will promote division. I see it happening today.

A country has to be unique. When one visits Japan or China or India or Germany they are visiting a country with a heritage, a culture, traditions, it has a main religion and a main language. Canada does not have this uniqueness that it once had anymore. We now have dozens of different traditions, cultures, heritages, religions and languages, and all are starting to build up their own turf. We have China towns, we have Punjabi towns, we have Korean towns, we have so many third world towns popping up that tourists are going to ask one day, what is unique about Canada? Canada is now unique alright. It may look Christian, straight and Caucasian for now but that is changing fast. When I read stories about how the Caucasian people, in all Caucasian countries will soon be heading for minority status, I think that it is time to start giving this some thought, and start doing something about it fast otherwise we are doomed as a people. And when someone or some group tries to do something about it, the media and politicians go into attack mode. They are labelled everything under the sun to try and make them look nasty and racist, and of course the people will believe the lies being spread.

Canada is just not the country that I once grew up in anymore. Just my opinion, of course.

Nor will it be in the future what it is to-day.

In the Canada I remember, white and black never dated much less get married. Being gay was to be shunned, ridiculed and often assaulted. Aboriginals were savage Indians who were killed by the cavalry which rode in at the last minute. Every good sized town had an Orangemen's Day parade to stick it to the Catholics. If you dared to not stand and sing to God Save the Queen you would bullied and possibly assaulted. When the odd immigrants would try to fit into our Canadian culture they were called "Dirty DP's" and told to go home to where they came from.

I see my Canada to-day. It is a melting pot of people from all parts of the world living in proximity and friendship while celebrating the uniqueness of their own culture and the shared Canadian culture which they all share. Aboriginals are respected in their heritage and culture. Gays and minorities have all the same rights and respect as do the old white Canadians.

I like my Canada of to-day better.

[CITIZEN_2015]

It appears to me that as usual a few anti-immigrants who by the way are in a tiny minority in Canada have comments to forward their agenda. They are called reactionary in my book. Those who always look back and not forward. Those who wish to go back in time and are against social progress and justice (for the minority) and most importantly against change. They wish to see a White Christian based (or Christian dominated) Canada. Wake up people whether you like it or not the clock is moving forward. Unless you can invent a time machine and go back in time Canada will never go back to 1800's and 1900's. The world is multicultural and so is and will be Canada since Canada is on this planet. What we can do is may be to change our immigration policy so that we can SELECT the best of people from all regions of the world who can contribute to better Canada but regardless of race, color, nationality but with progressive minds and skillful hands and educated brains. There are many hard working skillful highly educated progressive people in many countries and that includes middle east. Lets give them a chance rather than exclude them.

As for criticizing any religion again I stand by what I said. There is a limit to freedom of speech in every democracy and the logical limit is not to incite violence or hate against any group of people, If offending other people is not against the law (like throwing a four letter word on a passerby which one may not like or the other F word on apparent gays and lesbians) then it should be.

Edited March 5, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Guest]

Sure, I would definitely be against inciting violence against anyone. Hate? I don't know. What about loathing, contempt and disgust?

[taxme]

What's being forced on straight white Christians?

Are they being forced to turn gay? Turn brown? Abandon religion?

-k

They are being forced into not being able to express their opinions and points of view about anything that is not straight, not Christian and not white. And when they try to express their opinions and points of view they are attacked and labelled as racists, bigots, anti-immigrant and gay bashers. In the new Canada of today, they have no rights to speak freely anymore. They are the ones that are on the receiving end of government programs and agendas, and special interest groups that want to shut them down. Political incorrectness will not be tolerated in Canada anymore. And yet we are told that Canada is a tolerant and equal country for all. Not anymore. For some yes, but not for all. When one group is denied their right to their opinions and points of view that is not tolerance anymore but dictatorship and censorship. Straight,white and Christian have fallen into that catagory of hate.

[Big Guy]

Sure, I would definitely be against inciting violence against anyone. Hate? I don't know. What about loathing, contempt and disgust?

Why would anyone want to incite loathing, contempt and disgust against anyone?

[Guest]

Why would anyone want to incite loathing, contempt and disgust against anyone?

One doesn't do it on purpose. One expresses loathing, contempt and disgust, and it just happens.

[Big Guy]

One doesn't do it on purpose. One expresses loathing, contempt and disgust, and it just happens.

I did not try to imply that you do that. If it sounded that way then I apologize.

[kimmy]

They are being forced into not being able to express their opinions and points of view about anything that is not straight, not Christian and not white. And when they try to express their opinions and points of view they are attacked and labelled as racists, bigots, anti-immigrant and gay bashers. In the new Canada of today, they have no rights to speak freely anymore. They are the ones that are on the receiving end of government programs and agendas, and special interest groups that want to shut them down. Political incorrectness will not be tolerated in Canada anymore. And yet we are told that Canada is a tolerant and equal country for all. Not anymore. For some yes, but not for all. When one group is denied their right to their opinions and points of view that is not tolerance anymore but dictatorship and censorship. Straight,white and Christian have fallen into that catagory of hate.

None of that is true. People can express their views, up to the limit of "willful promotion of hatred", which is a high legal bar to reach.

People aren't hiding their views because they're afraid of the hate-speech law in Canada. The reason the bigots and racists are keeping their thoughts to themselves is that they don't want to advertise that they're bigots and racists.

You are free to say just about anything you want... but other people are free to criticize what you say. That's how this thing works.

-k

[Guest]

I did not try to imply that you do that. If it sounded that way then I apologize.

Oh, not at all. I just think that one cannot limit their commentary based on what others might do about it.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Why would anyone want to incite loathing, contempt and disgust against anyone?

One word. Losers.

First kind Those who have achieved less or achieved nothing in most part out of their own fault either not working hard enough or not having the brain, then blame others for their loss (anti-immigrants)

Second Kind Those who need desperately to Feel good about themselves by putting down others. These are true losers that they need to find an excuse to not feel bad about themselves or hide their weaknesses by revealing likely weaknesses in others (this type usually goes against gays and colored people) - Gay bashing and racists.

Third - Those who see themselves (falsely) as perfect and born to rule and others as inferiors (I classify them as psychos)

[Guest]

One word. Losers.

First kind Those who have achieved less or achieved nothing in most part out of their own fault either not working hard enough or not having the brain, then blame others for their loss (anti-immigrants)

Second Kind Those who need desperately to Feel good about themselves by putting down others. These are true losers that they need to find an excuse to not feel bad about themselves or hide their weaknesses by revealing likely weaknesses in others (this type usually goes against gays and colored people) - Gay bashing and racists.

Third - Those who see themselves (falsely) as perfect and born to rule and others as inferiors (I classify them as psychos)

Talking about gay bashing, what do you say to those who view countries that have laws against homosexuality with loathing, contempt and disgust?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Talking about gay bashing, what do you say to those who view countries that have laws against homosexuality with loathing, contempt and disgust?

Backwards, hateful, disgusting and remember Europe (still some European countries like Russia do) and Canada had such laws not long ago. So hopefully the rest will catch up.

[Guest]

Backwards, hateful, disgusting and remember Europe (still some European countries like Russia do) and Canada had such laws not long ago. So hopefully the rest will catch up.

I assume you mean the laws, not the people with the views?

[cybercoma]

They are being forced into not being able to express their opinions and points of view

Being criticized for your views is not censoring you from expressing them. It's called having a free and open dialog. If you feel bad about your views after having them criticized, then that's your problem.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Backwards, hateful, disgusting and remember Europe (still some European countries like Russia do) and Canada had such laws not long ago. So hopefully the rest will catch up.

Yes the laws and the people who carry out the discussing acts.

[Argus]

Why would anyone want to incite loathing, contempt and disgust against anyone?

uh... Does the phrase "The Zionist cancer spreads" sound familiar to you? You wrote it on Friday, in yet another demand we 'wash our hands' of the state of Israel.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

You are free to say just about anything you want... but other people are free to criticize what you say. That's how this thing works.

What's bigoted? What's racist? I was watching this guy on FOX this morning (yes, yes, I know, but I channel surf) and he was talking about how wildly divorced the Republican leadership is from the mainstream, which is how Trump arose. Trump says the stuff people say, the stuff no politician will say, that no media will speak of. He pointed out that while every Republican candidate wanted to increase legal immigration only 7% of the base did. Most of the base wants it cut back. But the Washington elites, including the mainstream media, don't pay any attention to such views, and certainly don't echo them.

It's the same, to some degree, in Canada. There is a lot of anti-immigration and anti-immigrant sentiment around. I run into it everywhere, including from people who are fairly centrist or even left of centre, from people who have dated or even lived with minority members, and aren't particularly racist. I've never met anyone who is happy with our current immigration system. I've never met anyone, even Liberal voters, who support Trudeau's relaxation of the standards. Yet anyone who speaks against immigration - for any reason, is labelled as a racist or bigot by the ignorant mouth-breathers of the Left.

[Argus]

Yes the laws and the people who carry out the discussing acts.

What about a religion which demands harsh penalties and treatment for people of other religions, which demands death for homosexuals and codifies, in law, the second class treatment of women, and the ability of men to beat their wives?