Bogus Refugees: Trudeau reinstates full benefits, enhanced for others

[Keepitsimple]

There is nothing gold plated about the basic health care provided.

According to you they should just die in the streets?

In Canada?

Well ... it's over. You lost.

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"I" didn't lose. Canada voted for the Liberals and now we have to examine their policies. I do not agree with refugees getting access to vision care and dental care benefits that full-fledged citizens do not. Makes no sense to me. Do you think that's fair?

I also do not agree with failed and bogus refugees (especially those from safe countries) continuing to get full and complete benefits. Perhaps the Conservative approach of providing no coverage unless it affected public heath was too harsh - maybe not.....but the idea of restricting Healthcare benefits in some fashion makes sense - both to save money AND to prevent bogus refugees from coming to Canada specifically to get medical care for free. Do you not see some room for policy here?

In summation - I fully support standard Healthcare benefits for genuine refugees - to the same level as regular Canadians.

[ToadBrother]

"I" didn't lose. Canada voted for the Liberals and now we have to examine their policies. I do not agree with refugees getting access to vision care and dental care benefits that full-fledged citizens do not. Makes no sense to me. Do you think that's fair?

I can't speak for other provinces, but here in BC, people on Income Assistance get vision and dental care, and presuming that a refugee is every bit as disadvantaged as someone on welfare, I'd say that equivalency justifies the extra expenditure.

[Argus]

I'm glad they lost, and I hope electoral reform finally separates the more strident partisans from whatever the Tories need to become to be competitive. They can go form their own party. Maybe they can call it that Anti-progressive Conservatives, and tell us all from a position of irrelevance and impotence how poor people and refugees are to blame and how, if they got power, they'd make them all pay.

You can sure see the rage of the progressive in the above, when some taxpayer complains about not wanting his money taken away for the progressive's pet causes. How DARE those evil, backward, barbaric conservative types refuse to give money to the causes that will make me feel good inside! Damn them all! How dare they think their money is in any way theirs!?

There is so much rage, hate and intolerance in the progressives.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Argus

[Big Guy]

I can't speak for other provinces, but here in BC, people on Income Assistance get vision and dental care, and presuming that a refugee is every bit as disadvantaged as someone on welfare, I'd say that equivalency justifies the extra expenditure.

I find it interesting that some posters see health care and welfare as some kind of a gift. It is a protection for the rest of us.

If there is someone in our society who has no money and they (and their families) cannot survive then they will not go into some corner and die - they will take from those who have. So we catch them and put them into jail - at the cost of about $90,000 a year to us.

People not getting proper heath care get sicker. The sicker they get, the better the chance that they give it to others and the more expensive it becomes for everybody.

Providing health care and a guaranteed minimal income is cost savings in the long run.

[angrypenguin]

Why on earth would you argue that?

NDP is made up of people who are primarily white who believe in protectionism. The CPC got a majority on 2011 largely due to the minority vote.

[Argus]

NDP is made up of people who are primarily white who believe in protectionism. The CPC got a majority on 2011 largely due to the minority vote.

The NDP is made up of progressives whose belief in the importance of people starts with what colour those people are. Since refugees are mostly non-White, the NDP believes everything they need or want is far and away more important than anything ordinary (ie, white) people need or want.

[angrypenguin]

We should pay for everyone's healthcare because it's just taxes right?

Paying for terrorists' healthcare should also be on the table because a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

[Smallc]

We should pay for everyone's healthcare because it's just taxes right?

Paying for terrorists' healthcare should also be on the table because a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

If they're in process in our system you're damned right we should pay for their healthcare.

[Keepitsimple]

I can't speak for other provinces, but here in BC, people on Income Assistance get vision and dental care, and presuming that a refugee is every bit as disadvantaged as someone on welfare, I'd say that equivalency justifies the extra expenditure.

As has been pointed out in the media - the vast, vast majority of refugees are sponsored by the private sector.....is it too much to ask that they also pick up the cost for a pair of glasses or get a tooth filled? As the "progressives" constantly point out, there are millions of Canadians who are living in poverty (below the LICO) who are not on any form of income assistance - and they do not get Vision and Dental coverage. So I don't buy your equivalency argument. It would be a lovely world if everybody had free health, vision and dental care.......but we can't afford it so the dollars have to be rationed out. That's not cruel - it's just a fact.

[Wilber]

If they're in process in our system you're damned right we should pay for their healthcare.

If you don't pay your monthly MSP premiums in BC they send it to a collection agency. About $1600 a year for the two of us.

[angrypenguin]

If they're in process in our system you're damned right we should pay for their healthcare.

You would pay for healthcare for a convicted terrorist?

[Smallc]

You would pay for healthcare for a convicted terrorist?

Well, seeing as they'd be in jail, yeah, we'd be doing that.

[ToadBrother]

As has been pointed out in the media - the vast, vast majority of refugees are sponsored by the private sector.....is it too much to ask that they also pick up the cost for a pair of glasses or get a tooth filled? As the "progressives" constantly point out, there are millions of Canadians who are living in poverty (below the LICO) who are not on any form of income assistance - and they do not get Vision and Dental coverage. So I don't buy your equivalency argument. It would be a lovely world if everybody had free health, vision and dental care.......but we can't afford it so the dollars have to be rationed out. That's not cruel - it's just a fact.

I see. So you're notion is that we bring people in who are the victims of political unrest or persecution, and you think someone else should pay their vision and dental?

Have you ever considered the generally heartless and utterly un-generous attitude of Tories is part of the reason they're stuck in opposition for the next four years? Kicking people when they're down may play well with you, but I would suggest the majority of Canadians don't like mean and nasty governments.

[jacee]

"I" didn't lose. Canada voted for the Liberals and now we have to examine their policies. I do not agree with refugees getting access to vision care and dental care benefits that full-fledged citizens do not. Makes no sense to me. Do you think that's fair?

They get the same benefits that people on welfare get, including emergency vision and dental, that's all.

I also do not agree with failed and bogus refugees (especially those from safe countries) continuing to get full and complete benefits. Perhaps the Conservative approach of providing no coverage unless it affected public heath was too harsh - maybe not.....but the idea of restricting Healthcare benefits in some fashion makes sense - both to save money AND to prevent bogus refugees from coming to Canada specifically to get medical care for free. Do you not see some room for policy here?

In summation - I fully support standard Healthcare benefits for genuine refugees - to the same level as regular Canadians.

That's what they get ... like regular Canadians ... on welfare.

And if they don't get those benefits they end up in emergency departments, costing more.

Apparently Liberals can do the Math while Harper couldn't.

Too busy blowing his dog whistles?

.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jacee

[jacee]

Argus has already started blaming McGuinty and Wynn. The Tories are utterly incapable of admitting their falws. In the eyes of partisan even the most loathsome attack on the vulnerable can be justified because "taxes!"

Ya and they probably cheat on their taxes anyway.

And yet they'll blame everyone else for the Tories' loss. It's the media's fault. It's stupid voters. It's everything but the jerks who ran the Harper government like it was a personal vendetta machine.

I'm glad they lost, and I hope electoral reform finally separates the more strident partisans from whatever the Tories need to become to be competitive. They can go form their own party. Maybe they can call it that Anti-progressive Conservatives, and tell us all from a position of irrelevance and impotence how poor people and refugees are to blame and how, if they got power, they'd make them all pay.

Harper had some ugly dogs that frothed when he whistled, it's true.

Maybe they'll all move south so they can vote for the Donald.

Lol

[Argus]

Have you ever considered the generally heartless and utterly un-generous attitude of Tories is part of the reason they're stuck in opposition

Have you ever considered the likelihood that the Tories are 'heartless and un-generous' because it's mostly their money being taken away to fund this stuff, while progressives are 'generous and full of giving' because they know the money is mostly coming form someone else?

[eyeball]

I have to say the thought of hard-core conservatives squirming in indignation due to this sentiment cheers me up. Have regressives considered the likelihood their vile stance towards the world is the reason so much of it is a mess?

[Argus]

I have to say the thought of hard-core conservatives squirming in indignation due to this sentiment cheers me up. Have regressives considered the likelihood their vile stance towards the world is the reason so much of it is a mess?

No. The world is a mess because of the ignorance, backwardness, stupidity, religious fanaticism, corruption and barbarity of most of the rest of the people who live in it. If all the western countries were magically transported to another dimension what remains would quickly degenerate into hunter gatherer groups and religious empires that sacrifice virgins to their plethora of gods.

[jacee]

As the "progressives" constantly point out, there are millions of Canadians who are living in poverty (below the LICO) who are not on any form of income assistance - and they do not get Vision and Dental coverage. So I don't buy your equivalency argument. It would be a lovely world if everybody had free health, vision and dental care.......but we can't afford it so the dollars have to be rationed out. That's not cruel - it's just a fact.

I think it's obvious that instead of picking favourites, we could be lobbying to ensure that all Canadians get basic health, dental and vision care. For those working without those benefits, perhaps the cost of reasonable coverage could be a deduction from tax payable.

A much better investment than corporate subsidies that get dispersed to wealthy stockholders as profits.

.

[Argus]

I think it's obvious that instead of picking favourites, we could be lobbying to ensure that all Canadians get basic health, dental and vision care. For those working without those benefits, perhaps the cost of reasonable coverage could be a deduction from tax payable.

A much better investment than corporate subsidies that get dispersed to wealthy stockholders as profits.

.

When you talk about 'wealthy stockholders' you mean 'people trying to save for their pensions who don't get fat cheques from the government', right?

[jacee]

When you talk about 'wealthy stockholders' you mean 'people trying to save for their pensions who don't get fat cheques from the government', right?

Oh come on Argus!

Everybody knows that corporate subsidies are carefully designed as political payoffs!

.

[eyeball]

No. The world is a mess because of the ignorance, backwardness, stupidity, religious fanaticism, corruption and barbarity of most of the rest of the people who live in it.

There's no doubt plenty of this exists alright and virtually everywhere it does exist the usual suspects, good olde tyme conservatives, can be found vilifying, dispossessing, subjugating and slaughtering any liberal and progressive threats to their good olde tyme establishment that they can get their hands on. You figure you're the only one who can't stand an uppity lefty? You hard-boiled conservatives are like peas in a pod.

If all the western countries were magically transported to another dimension what remains would quickly degenerate into hunter gatherer groups and religious empires that sacrifice virgins to their plethora of gods.

Well, unless we could somehow filter out folks like yourself and leave you behind I'm pretty sure you'd have us regressing to the same fundamental state in no time at all.

[ToadBrother]

No. The world is a mess because of the ignorance, backwardness, stupidity, religious fanaticism, corruption and barbarity of most of the rest of the people who live in it. If all the western countries were magically transported to another dimension what remains would quickly degenerate into hunter gatherer groups and religious empires that sacrifice virgins to their plethora of gods.

Or maybe they wouldn't. The West hardly has a monopoly on civilization, and it's only in the last five or six hundred years that it has pulled ahead. While some of these people you consider "barbarians" were building cities and irrigation systems and essentially inventing the core technologies of civilization, the "West" was occupied by a pack of barbarians still stuck in the Neolithic.

[Argus]

Oh come on Argus!

Everybody knows that corporate subsidies are carefully designed as political payoffs!

.

Uhm, no, in the absence of political donations to the parties (which always went mostly to the Liberals anyway) I don't see this political payoff happening.

[Argus]

Or maybe they wouldn't. The West hardly has a monopoly on civilization, and it's only in the last five or six hundred years that it has pulled ahead. While some of these people you consider "barbarians" were building cities and irrigation systems and essentially inventing the core technologies of civilization, the "West" was occupied by a pack of barbarians still stuck in the Neolithic.

So Western civilization progressed and everyone else regressed. I know all about the glories of ancient India and Persia, thanks. But they were more advanced than European cultures because of their leadership and the culture and values of their people. Those cultures, values and leaders now leave an awful lot to be desired. Corruption is endemic in much of the world, not just among leaders but throughout societies where any sense of "that man is my brother" has long given way to "How can I screw that man over?". Meanwhile, religious fanaticism (which doomed the countries which are now predominantly Muslim to centuries of ignorance) continues to rise.