Michael Hardner Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 If so, you will be paying a lot more for bread, beef, seafood and wood in order to get a cheaper quart of milk. And this sounds like a win for the Canadian consumer to you? I don't think it follows that I will be paying more for Canadian products. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Is it true that the 4pm EST announcement has been delayed to 6pm? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I don't think it follows that I will be paying more for Canadian products. You don't? If the Japanese are willing to pay twice as much for a steak as you, who do you think the farmer will sell to? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You don't? If the Japanese are willing to pay twice as much for a steak as you, who do you think the farmer will sell to? But they won't be willing to pay twice as much steak. What incentive do they have to not pay the least for whatever they want to buy. Same as for us. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) But they won't be willing to pay twice as much steak. What incentive do they have to not pay the least for whatever they want to buy. Same as for us. You will be in competition with Japanese consumers. Go tell that to them. On edit. When New Zealand was enjoying its dairy boom because of the Chinese market, milk prices in New Zealand were so high there was a parliamentary inquiry as to why. Edited October 4, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You will be in competition with Japanese consumers. Go tell that to them. This makes absolutely no sense at all. If I can buy a rib eye from an American producer at $10/oz, and I can buy rib eye from a Japanese exporter for $8/oz, I'll buy from the Japanese exporter. How is this so difficult to understand? Or are you crying foul because the American producer can only product it at $2/oz more? Screw the American producer. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) This makes absolutely no sense at all. If I can buy a rib eye from an American producer at $10/oz, and I can buy rib eye from a Japanese exporter for $8/oz, I'll buy from the Japanese exporter. How is this so difficult to understand? Or are you crying foul because the American producer can only product it at $2/oz more? Screw the American producer. That makes absolutely no sense. http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/about/media/00SCCO_MediaRelease20110817_1/inquiry-into-the-price-of-milk Edited October 4, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 That makes absolutely no sense. http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/about/media/00SCCO_MediaRelease20110817_1/inquiry-into-the-price-of-milk So that was back in 2011. What was the result? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You ignore a So that was back in 2011. What was the result? Well the market eventually fell on its ass and New Zealand's biggest export industry is in crisis. You ignore a basic principal of a free market. The consumer who is willing to pay the most, sets the price, not the consumer who wants to pay the least. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You ignore a Well the market eventually fell on its ass and New Zealand's biggest export industry is in crisis. You ignore a basic principal of a free market. The consumer who is willing to pay the most, sets the price, not the consumer who wants to pay the least. You're ignoring the fact that every consumer wants to pay the least. How else do you think places like Walmart became so successful? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Michael Hardner Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You don't? If the Japanese are willing to pay twice as much for a steak as you, who do you think the farmer will sell to? They can sell to both of us. I don't think it works that way. Canadians won't spend much more for beef, but Japanese will be able to get beef much cheaper. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Can we have a link that fully explains the New Zealand dairy trade example ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
ToadBrother Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 They can sell to both of us. I don't think it works that way. Canadians won't spend much more for beef, but Japanese will be able to get beef much cheaper. There are lots of examples of variable pricing. One of the most frustrating is computer software, where, even where exchange rates do not justify it, Americans get the lower pricing, and some countries, like Australia for instance, see much higher prices. Even commodity pricing can behave that way. That Canadian producers might get more money for selling beef to Japan doesn't mean beef in Canada goes up, unless the Japanese buy so much Canadian beef that that pushes the prices up. In fact, if a market opens up, it is often a means by which new capacity is built. Quote
Topaz Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 A very minutes ago, TV news said that New Zealand and the USA are going after the dairy and the rest of the Asia, is going after the auto sector, so it looks like may just give in and use tax dollars to get what HE wants. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 A very minutes ago, TV news said that New Zealand and the USA are going after the dairy and the rest of the Asia, is going after the auto sector, so it looks like may just give in and use tax dollars to get what HE wants. It's more complex than that. Australia is also pushing the US for much shorter periods in which drug manufacturers can hold monopolies on manufacture of drugs, with the Aussies wanting five years in the Americans fifteen, and with a compromise of eight years in the cards. You act as if every aspect of the TPP is about screwing Canada over. Quote
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Posted October 4, 2015 Are you going to answer my question? Are Canadian dairy farmers capable of selling in TPP markets? If those markets are equal, that is, others are not able to subsidize their dairy farmers beyond a certain level they ought to be able to. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Posted October 4, 2015 If so, you will be paying a lot more for bread, beef, seafood and wood in order to get a cheaper quart of milk. And this sounds like a win for the Canadian consumer to you? Why would we be paying more for any of that? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Posted October 4, 2015 You don't? If the Japanese are willing to pay twice as much for a steak as you, who do you think the farmer will sell to? Supply and demand. If there is a higher demand, prices go up, and then farmers start producing more, so prices go back down. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 6pm now delayed until 10pm. Sigh Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
waldo Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 6pm now delayed until 10pm. Sigh why the baited breath? Are you expecting some kind of a "TPP bounce" for your favoured party? Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 why the baited breath? Are you expecting some kind of a "TPP bounce" for your favoured party? Yes, and also because I really do think this is an awesome thing for my favorite country! Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
ToadBrother Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Yes, and also because I really do think this is an awesome thing for my favorite country! I'm not a fan of some of the rumored intellectual property protection rules apparently being negotiated, particularly to greatly extending copyright terms. Quote
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 You're ignoring the fact that every consumer wants to pay the least. How else do you think places like Walmart became so successful? Do you really think our producers will be after Walmarts? Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Saks are also successful. Japanese are affluent, sophisticated consumers used to paying top dollar for good quality products. That's why their products are so good. When our producers go shopping for overseas markets like Japan, they will be after Nordstrom customers, not Walmartians. That's where the money is. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Do you really think our producers will be after Walmarts? Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Saks are also successful. Japanese are affluent, sophisticated consumers used to paying top dollar for good quality products. That's why their products are so good. When our producers go shopping for overseas markets like Japan, they will be after Nordstrom customers, not Walmartians. That's where the money is. You're comparing apples to oranges here. Yes, of course Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Saks are successful. They provide premium products. But if I take the exact same handbag and put it at Nordstrom, and charge $500USD, and if I put it at NM for $800, provided it's the same item people will go to Nordstrom to buy it. If the Japanese can spend more on beef, if the two beefs are the same, why would the Japanese pay for vendor X's beef instead of vendor Y? e.g. they wouldn't. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) You're comparing apples to oranges here. Yes, of course Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Saks are successful. They provide premium products. But if I take the exact same handbag and put it at Nordstrom, and charge $500USD, and if I put it at NM for $800, provided it's the same item people will go to Nordstrom to buy it. If the Japanese can spend more on beef, if the two beefs are the same, why would the Japanese pay for vendor X's beef instead of vendor Y? e.g. they wouldn't. Supply and demand. When world demand for oil goes up, so does the price in Canada. Food is another commodity, why do you think it would be different. Our producers will not invest in ramping up production for foreign markets if it is not worth their while. If it is, you will pay the same price as their other customers. You should go to Japan sometime. They are very picky consumers, they don't shop price as much as quality. Edited October 5, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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