G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) The Official Party Status has to do with internal in the house politics and has nothing to do with the process of fair elections. In fact one could argue that it was a partisan piece of legislation drafted in the 70s in order to benefit the political elite and to ensure their unfair domination of politics, not to mention gain public funding for their parties. Edited September 20, 2015 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Nonsense. The votes are counted and registered. Every political system requires that fringe parties meet a minimum threshold before they get official representation. The only difference between Canada and other countries is the fringe view must reach a higher threshold. The votes are counted, but they aren't represented and that's the difference. In a democracy voters are represented. In a place like Sweden the Pirate Party are a mainstream party, because the votes that go towards them aren't simply thrown in a gutter afterward like they would be in Canada. Edited September 20, 2015 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Protest votes are still votes. In Sweden they count, whereas in Canada the protest votes are thrown in the gutter so no protest is really registered. That's what makes Sweden's system more democratic. People who protest shouldn't be deemed fringe and sidelined. Democracy needs protest and needs to take it seriously. Without dissent and differing views there is no democracy. Everyone's vote is worth the same in Canada. One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 No they aren't worth the same, because they don't necessarily translate into representation, while in a place like Sweden they are virtually guaranteed to transfer into representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 No they aren't worth the same, because they don't necessarily translate into representation, while in a place like Sweden they are virtually guaranteed to transfer into representation.Yes they are. Everyone's vote is worth one. Are you arguing that your vote us worth more or less than one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 The votes are counted, but they aren't represented and that's the difference. In a democracy voters are represented. Canada is a democracy. So, there goes that theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 In a place like Sweden the Pirate Party are a mainstream party, because the votes that go towards them aren't simply thrown in a gutter afterward like they would be in Canada.WRONG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_threshold In Sweden, there is a nationwide threshold of 4%, but if a party reaches 12% in one election district, it will take part in the seat allocation for that district.In Canada the threshold works out to be about 10% so the difference is a just a question of where the cut off occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Yet Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Nobody from a major party should be excluded IMO. It presumes they are not part of the democratic process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Nobody from a major party should be excluded IMO. It presumes they are not part of the democratic process What's a major party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 WRONG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_threshold In Canada the threshold works out to be about 10% so the difference is a just a question of where the cut off occurs. You are comparing apples to oranges. Sweden has proportional representation, while Canada doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Canada is a democracy. So, there goes that theory. No it isn't. It's a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Yes they are. Everyone's vote is worth one. Are you arguing that your vote us worth more or less than one? Of course. My vote has only transferred into representation once in all the times I've voted so on average it's worth something like a .1 of a vote. Edited September 20, 2015 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 No it isn't. It's a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. Constitutional monarchy is a form of democracy. Nice play for the literal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) No it isn't. Democracy is rule by the people. If the head of State is a monarch it's simply not a democracy. Also minority governments without forming a coalition in a parliamentary system would be an Oligarchy rather than a Democracy. Edited September 20, 2015 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 The debate organizers are private concerns. Actually, it's their charity that organizes it. That's why the Green Party is suing on these grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Fiorina went from happy hour status to 2nd place based purely on the debates. That's for the primaries. A very different thing from a federal election. We don't have an equivalent here, unless you call party leadership conventions the same (they're not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 That's for the primaries. A very different thing from a federal election. We don't have an equivalent here, unless you call party leadership conventions the same (they're not). Yes but the point is the same that exposure translates into votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 I have no problem with 6. I can keep up. If only the leaders spoke for the entire hour of the debate, they would each have 10 minutes to present and defend their positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) It goes against their claim to be a non partisan organization however. That's the argument, but it's far from sure that the Greens can prove that. Edited September 20, 2015 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 According to Nanos, you're wrong. I'll await your apology. 29% < 33% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Of course. My vote has only transferred into representation once in all the times I've voted so on average it's worth something like a .1 of a vote.When they tally the votes. Your vote is worth one and so us mine. Not everyone wins elections. Why is today's generation a generation where everyone must win? You don't always get your own way. Doesn't mean your vote is worth any less then the next guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 29% < 33% I was speaking specifically to the original claim that he made. I wasn't responding to the new claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Who said she has to be in a position to lead a coalition? This isn't winner takes all politics. This is supposed to be a democracy. Theoretically anyone can win. The votes are decided on election day not in advance. She certainly has enough candidates running to win. The probability of Elizabeth May being Prime Minister on Oct. 20 is virtually 0%, despite her actually being the best person for the job. Edited September 20, 2015 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 You are comparing apples to oranges. Sweden has proportional representation, while Canada doesn't.Irrelevant to your argument about fringe parties getting representation. Sweden has a threshold so some fringe parties do not get representation even if that threshold is lower than what it is in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Head of government (totally different position - that explains your earlier lack of understanding). Elizabeth may doesn't belong in a debate between potential prime ministers, your mistaken inferences non withstanding. Fair enough - head of government. My mistake and yes, I do understand the difference. In our system of government, head of state is a powerless, pointless drone. Head of government is effectively a dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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