National Child Care Going Ahead

[maplesyrup]

For the children

It's time for provinces to "stop the blame game" and start working with the federal government to establish a national system of early childhood development, says Premier Gary Doer. "It makes a lot of sense to work with the federal government," said Doer, minutes after federal Social Development Minister Ken Dryden reiterated a Liberal pledge to provide $5 billion dollars over five years to fund a national child-care system.

Doer said he's more optimistic than he's ever been about a national system after meeting with Dryden, who was in Winnipeg yesterday to speak at the Canadian Council on Social Development conference.

Quebec has a great child care program, and has had one for years now. So what's up with the rest of Canada's premiers? Why are they stonewalling this program that can only be good for Canada's children and their financially strapped parents?

[caesar]

Quebec has a great child care program, and has had one for years now. So what's up with the rest of Canada's premiers

We can't afford it; been sending all that financial help to Quebec

[Big Blue Machine]

Becuase the Quebecers are bitching about fiscal imbalance.

[maplesyrup]

caesar....you have a one-track mind.

Thank goodness for Quebec and its joie de vive.

Don't worry, the politicians in Quebec don't really represent the ordinary Quebeckers, anymore than they do in the rest of Canada.

[Big Blue Machine]

Some provinces don't have the money for a child care program. That's why the feds should pay for it.

[maplesyrup]

Right. They just have tax breaks for the wealthy which is why they have no money for ordinary Canadians. :angry:

[Big Blue Machine]

They have to put in tax breaks now, because they are in a minority to get some Conservative support.

[Guest eureka]

I don't know that Quebec does have a "great" child care program. From what I have read, the scheme is underfunded; has long waiting lists and only reaches a portion of the population that is in need of the service.

Quebec needs federal funding as much as any province in order to esrablish a truly beneficial service. This may become another sticky point in federal-provincial relations when Quebec demands funds without accountability.

[Bakunin]

I think its a great childcare program but there are some serious problems too, and i doubt the federal will be able to make a good program.

Its a good idea because it assure that the child doesnt just get parked and learn nothing.

The goal is to assure a quality service and an educationnal service for the child.

And it help alot the poorest part of the population, monoparental women. it cost 7$ a day.

But as always the government doesn't have enough money to pay for those service for evryone so there is a waiting list of years...

I don't remember the cost but its around 1.5 billions per years i think wich is clearly not enough. But i think that the money spent for children is never lost money. we just have to rework the program to reduce waiting time.

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But how i see this is that the federal wich is swimming in surplus money, try to justify the fiscal imbalance between the federal and the province by spending the surplus on social program....

Maybe to save money they could use the 10 000 bureaucrat for healthcare with imaginary work...

lets face it, the federal was made to operate stuff like the army and the rcmp not to control childcare... we dont need bureaucrat to tell the province what to do... they just have to send back their surplus and let the province deal with it... else the money will never get through all the federal bureaucracy and it will be wasted money...

[Bakunin]

I don't know that Quebec does have a "great" child care program. From what I have read, the scheme is underfunded; has long waiting lists and only reaches a portion of the population that is in need of the service.

Quebec needs federal funding as much as any province in order to esrablish a truly beneficial service. This may become another sticky point in federal-provincial relations when Quebec demands funds without accountability.

This is clear that quebec will never accept rules from the federal about childcare program...

its just unthinkable...

[August1991]

I don't know that Quebec does have a "great" child care program. From what I have read, the scheme is underfunded; has long waiting lists and only reaches a portion of the population that is in need of the service.

There are horror stories but in fact the system works reasonably well.

The problems arise elsewhere:

First, Quebec had to take all money previously given to families with children and put it into this child care system. In effect, the State has now taken over the role of raising young children. There is a strong incentive to send children to day care. IOW, families with stay at home kids pay taxes but get no benefit.

Second, child care workers are in the process of developing a union and negotiating salary increases. They are a monopolist with access to their clients' bank accounts.

The child care system mirrors the health and education system. The difference may be that only children can go to day care and schools. The clientele is limited. In the case of health, the clientele is limitless. Anyone can go to the doctor for anything.

Lastly, the evidence is not good for countries where the state raises yound children. Birth rates tend to fall and this is another issue in Quebec.

[Bakunin]

Lastly, the evidence is not good for countries where the state raises yound children. Birth rates tend to fall and this is another issue in Quebec.

hehe, how is it reliate ?

My sister works in a childcare center and she told me sad stories, there are children that are not educate or badly educate by there parent, even very basic stuff..., there are also children in childcare center from parent that have no jobs and that could take care of there children... But what can we do when children are not well raised... If thei can access to high quality childcare service and the people who work there will have no problem with the child but if the children makes trouble, then its clear the people will make what they can to try to educate him better, i don't think that we can call that "the state's is raising our children", its just the people who work there try to prepare children for the future and thats a good thing.

We can say it deresponsabilize the parent but don't see it this way, i guess there about the same amount of bad parent in quebec than other society, if they get access to better childcare system then its just better for the child.

IOW, families with stay at home kids pay taxes but get no benefit.

Yeah thats another very big problem.

[caesar]

Everything about Quebec is wonderful; why not just go back there. I am tired of a fellow British Columbian bragging about how wonderful Quebec is; and whining and dramatizing everything else except thinking it is okay for a teacher to have sex with a student.

[caesar]

First, Quebec had to take all money previously given to families with children and put it into this child care system. In effect, the State has now taken over the role of raising young children. There is a strong incentive to send children to day care. IOW, families with stay at home kids pay taxes but get no benefit.

That is what ticks me off; why should I pay for your day care; I would prefer that we enable one parent to stay home and raise their own children. I don't mind helping single parent get back on their feet but if you are going to have children; raise them yourselves. They will be much nicer better people and will have better bonding with their parents.

[Bakunin]

First, Quebec had to take all money previously given to families with children and put it into this child care system. In effect, the State has now taken over the role of raising young children. There is a strong incentive to send children to day care. IOW, families with stay at home kids pay taxes but get no benefit.

That is what ticks me off; why should I pay for your day care; I would prefer that we enable one parent to stay home and raise their own children. I don't mind helping single parent get back on their feet but if you are going to have children; raise them yourselves. They will be much nicer better people and will have better bonding with their parents.

you are not paying for quebec childcare program, the quebecers are....

[maplesyrup]

Some people will whine about anything.

SFU has a fabulous child care system - I think there are 14-15 separate units with very high standards.

Hopefully this national child care funding program will augment their meagre resources. The major problem I think are the wages - who is going to stay for low wages? Strange lack of support for children. Sometimes I think our society is anti-children.

[Cartman]

I don't know how anyone can argue against a national day care program these days. MS is 110% right (I mean correct...sorry Maple ) on this issue. Many families require women's incomes to make ends meet. That is the reality folks.

Most career minded women can:

A. Rely upon their husbands/partners to take 50% of the responsibility (time and $$) to raise children (not gonna happen guys/partners because we generally "help out" as well as work as breadwinners);

B. Pay privately for child care which is now terribly expensive especially for single-parent families;

C. Give up any ideas of competing with others in the marketplace; or,

D. Not have children at all.

Really, what would you decide given these choices? Seems to me that most career minded women have "chosen" the latter and I do not think that it is an accident that so many have made similar choices.

So, let's not pussyfoot around like our politicians do (especially Liberals) on this issue. Make the choice. Either we rely upon immigration with its ebbs and flows as a permanent source of population sustenance or we support pro-natalist policies. I prefer the latter. I am a nationalist and a statist and I believe that we should rely upon internal growth (all forms) as much as possible. It seems odd to me that we require 200,000 to 300,000 new Canadians each year, but have not yet put in place institutions to allow everyone to sustain our numbers.

And I am getting real tired of saying over and over that we CAN pay for our welfare state. Right now the federal government does not even know how to spend the surplus that exists. They act as though it is their money. Think independently; the government has charged you too much for services rendered and now wonders what it should/will do with the extra money! Either demand an in-store credit (my preference) or a refund, but at least make a choice. Both alternatives have ramifications.

[Guest eureka]

There may be another complocation to a publicly funded child care program that I had not thought of.

The Toronto Star this morning has a piece that notes that if the public funds are given to privately operated concerns, there will be a development of large corporate providers as has happened in the USA and Australia.

Under NAFTA, we will not be able to exclude latge American corporations and could lose control of another area of public policy.

[Cartman]

Do you have a link Eureka? I would like to see the article.

Perhaps there are alternatives to a specific national day care program, but the main point is that the government should do something about it. I am not sure if the Quebec system is nec. the way to go. At least the feds. altered mat. leave for the better.

[Bakunin]

The best way is problably to apply a childcare program but not to fix an universal price. the states must let decide the parent how they want to be helped.

[maplesyrup]

The only way for this child care program to work properly is for it to be non-profit, otherwise large corporations will take over. We need to get out of these trade agreements that are impacting on our sovereignty.

Large corporations ` will have an incredibly poisonous effect on the evolution of child care.'

Gord Cleveland, U of T economist

-from that same Toronto Star article.

[Pateris]

A Quebec-style child care system will be a disaster for Canada...

Why the push to have the state raise the children instead of giving parents the power to choose whether they do it themselves? Shouldn't we create a system by which people can afford to have a parent stay home and raise this kids? And for single parents create a system for those who REALLY need help.

If you support state-run childcare for every child, why don't we set up residential schools so that no parent has to raise their children. Worked for the natives right?

[playfullfellow]

Strange lack of support for children. Sometimes I think our society is anti-children.

Strange as it may seem, I have to agree with MS here. Though I may not fully agree with 100% government funded childcare, I prefer to see stay at home moms/dads get a tax break so they can chose to saty home and raise their kids. Under the current system, it is the kids that suffer no matter what choice parents make unless they make a whack of money each year and can shop around for the higher class childcare. Institutional childcare does not work, Denmark tries this in the 70's and it did not go over very well. Now they have in home childcare where people, generally women can apply to be a childcare giver, get certified and then get paid by the government to look after other peoples kids. The limit is 5 kids per home (not certain about this number) nad their are time limits that a kid is allowed to be left in childcare each day. Though not a perfect system, this system does basically eliminate the potential for corporate take over of the childcare institution and it allows women who's kids are grown to earn money without leaving the home. This also allows people to have their kids in a home enviroment childcare system.

I would still prefer to see a situation where people can benefit from keeping their kids at home and raise them to school age. This can be easily be done through tax rebates but alas, as MS says, this country is largely anti child these days.

[Guest eureka]

I don't think tax rebates are an answer. Any amount of rebate would not cover the "need" in today's world for income. There is a reality that cost of living is far higher today -cost not in the sense of inflation but in more expensive housing through conveniences and size, and in many areas such as computers and whatever - while incomes are little more than when demands were much more modest.

A lowering of the sights would be needed for a return to stay-at-home parents. It won't happen unless there is a major depression to force it.

[Big Blue Machine]

The Conservative child care program is good.