On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 And just what do you think that has to do with what we're doing now? More bombing won't make already failed bombing any better. Kind of like whacking your head against the wall. Especially when it is now revealed we are killing innocents. Boots on the ground training local boots on the ground is the way to go. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 You want substance? That is substance. That is the real world these refugees are living in. And bringing comparatively few of them here isn't going to change that. Quote
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 And bringing comparatively few of them here isn't going to change that. That's why the UN has a system where many countries take a share of them. You know this, so I don't know why you're pretending like doing our part is meaningless. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 More bombing won't make already failed bombing any better. This isn't an analogous situation to the first one. We didn't create the mess, but we do need a multifaceted approach to help clean it up if we want to do that. Kind of like whacking your head against the wall. Especially when it is now revealed we are killing innocents. Boots on the ground training local boots on the ground is the way to go. And we're doing both of those things and more. That's what you have to do. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 That's why the UN has a system where many countries take a share of them. You know this, so I don't know why you're pretending like doing our part is meaningless. And still the majority of people live in terrible conditions. It does nothing to fix the problems at their root, and is like putting a bandaid on a broken arm. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 This isn't an analogous situation to the first one. We didn't create the mess, but we do need a multifaceted approach to help clean it up if we want to do that. And we're doing both of those things and more. That's what you have to do. No, if you're smart you don't do both. Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 More bombing won't make already failed bombing any better. Kind of like whacking your head against the wall. Especially when it is now revealed we are killing innocents. Boots on the ground training local boots on the ground is the way to go. Are you saying we are not training locals....our military mission has more than 6 cf-18's it also has teams of CSOR training locals, it is just not enough.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 I din't realise how important list where to you waldo....I asked you how is that a failed policy....i know you don't have time to answer questions....just one linners, you have this need to control the conversation, with your own questions, but no time in answering anyone elses..... to you... how is the Harper Conservatives dropping from 5th to 15th place a reflection on "good policy"? How is Harper Conservatives failing to meet commitments a reflection on "good policy"? We had this lame-azzed "fiscal restraint" excuse floated to attempt to rationalize apologize for Harper Conservatives... apparently, all those other countries that maintained or bettered their positioning didn't place PRESUMED fiscal restraint above humanitarianism! . Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 No, if you're smart you don't do both. Ya because taking in all the refugees will solve everything.....until they make more that is..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Are you saying we are not training locals....our military mission has more than 6 cf-18's it also has teams of CSOR training locals, it is just not enough.... Bring the F-18's home, jack up the training mission to a realistic number. Equip the Peshmurga. Then we might see some success. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 No, if you're smart you don't do both. And yet so many countries disagree with you in their approach, and their approach throughout history. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 to you... how is the Harper Conservatives dropping from 5th to 15th place a reflection on "good policy"? How is Harper Conservatives failing to meet commitments a reflection on "good policy"? We had this lame-azzed "fiscal restraint" excuse floated to attempt to rationalize apologize for Harper Conservatives... apparently, all those other countries that maintained or bettered their positioning didn't place PRESUMED fiscal restraint above humanitarianism! . The policy part was already posed to you Waldo......... In 2011, there were approximately 6,300 asylum claims from EU countries – more than from Africa or Asia. Under the new rules, annual asylum claims from Hungary – an EU country and the top source country for asylum claims in Canada over the past three years with already high withdrawal and abandonment rates- have declined by an overwhelming 97 per cent. Asylum claims from the United States have also dropped significantly - down by roughly 80 per cent from the year before. Countries in distress, such as Afghanistan, Congo, Egypt, Somalia and Syria, now rank among the top 10 source countries for asylum claims in Canada Do you think allowing refugees from the EU or the United States to be valid policy? Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 to you... how is the Harper Conservatives dropping from 5th to 15th place a reflection on "good policy"? How is Harper Conservatives failing to meet commitments a reflection on "good policy"? We had this lame-azzed "fiscal restraint" excuse floated to attempt to rationalize apologize for Harper Conservatives... apparently, all those other countries that maintained or bettered their positioning didn't place PRESUMED fiscal restraint above humanitarianism! . I di'nt say it was good policy, i asked you how it was a failed policy.....if your suggesting that there is a problem with meeting goals where is it? i not the one making these claims you are. and i did'nt blame the fiscal restraint as the end all of excuses, i have suggested that it may of played a role....And so what if other countries have better humanitarian skills than us, at the end of the day what does it matter. there are plenty of lists out there in the world that we are not on the top off....spending on our military forces.....does that make us a bad nation..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Bring the F-18's home, jack up the training mission to a realistic number. It's unclear that there are facilities to absorb more trainers. Equip the Peshmurga. Then we might see some success. We do some of that, but you have to be careful with that, as history has taught us. Edited September 5, 2015 by Smallc Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 And yet so many countries disagree with you in their approach, and their approach throughout history. What I am saying is it's not real smart to create a problem ad the have to go clean it up. Seems obvious to me. Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Bring the F-18's home, jack up the training mission to a realistic number. Equip the Peshmurga. Then we might see some success. your aware that those training troops have engaged the enemy....and they have been used to call in airstrikes right....i thought you were again'st putting boots on the ground, to increase our training foot print there needs to be more security forces, which mean contact with enemy forces.... Why equip anyone you've stated that your against that to, please explain.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 It's unclear that there are facilities to absorb more trainers. We do some of that, but you have to be careful with that, as history has taught us. What? We have about 60 trainers there. C'mon give your head a shake. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 your aware that those training troops have engaged the enemy....and they have been used to call in airstrikes right....i thought you were again'st putting boots on the ground, to increase our training foot print there needs to be more security forces, which mean contact with enemy forces.... Why equip anyone you've stated that your against that to, please explain.... Um...nope. I'm not against putting boots on the ground. And they shouldn't have to engage the enemy, just train/equip the locals and let them do the job. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 What? We have about 60 trainers there. C'mon give your head a shake. We're not the only country with trainers there. There are hundreds of trainers from other countries all working along side us. Quote
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 What I am saying is it's not real smart to create a problem ad the have to go clean it up. We didn't create this problem. To be technical, the problem existed long before the US got involved even. Quote
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 The policy part was already posed to you Waldo......... Do you think allowing refugees from the EU or the United States to be valid policy? perhaps you might be inclined to read the following review on that self-serving Harper Conservative press release you think means something: Canada Fails the Test of a Good Society Human rights reports document human rights abuses in the European Union. There is no inherent evil in the regimes in Africa or Asia, nor is there a pass for governments in Europe. Human rights abuses are not tied to any particular continent. In fact, the origin of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is the Second World War. The refugees from the USA are overwhelmingly children of Latin Americans who were born during their parents' sojourn in the USA. These refugees have also been deterred from coming to Canada. Why? Because they tend to not have status in the USA and given our harsh determination system, prefer to remain there undocumented, work and send their children to school, instead of being subjected to an unfair system in Canada and be deported home. Chris Alexander, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, is attempting to justify the recent changes to the refugee determination system and refugee health care with divisive language and misrepresentation of the facts. As a former diplomat who worked in third-world countries he should know better. Consider, that when the medical community recently challenged the Minister to a debate on the refugee health care issues, he chose not to respond. Instead, his Chief of Staff, Chris Day, in a McCarthyesque move, attacked individual doctors on social media. Neither Day nor Minister Alexander has responded to concerns about their inaccurate statements. This is not a reasonable way to develop public policy that affects some of the most vulnerable people in the world. Our sages tell us that in order for a society to be judged as good and decent we must treat the stranger amongst us with kindness and respect. Sadly it seems, Canada can fails the test as a good society. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 We didn't create this problem. To be technical, the problem existed long before the US got involved even. I was in Iraq before uncle sam came along and you could go anywhere anytime without worry. Don't try that now. So yes, the US certainly had a large hand in creating the problem. Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Um...nope. I'm not against putting boots on the ground. And they shouldn't have to engage the enemy, just train/equip the locals and let them do the job. Like i said they have already engaged the enemy....and they are not just doing training.....they have carried out BDA, and designated targets.....if you increase the boots on the ground, you also have to increase security, logistics, admin, now your talking a good size mission.....with a much higher percentage that some of those troops will engage the enemy..... Thats the problem , not all the locals are up to the fight....see Iraqi soldiers....there not all kurd rebel quality.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 I was in Iraq before uncle sam came along and you could go anywhere anytime without worry. And that was all held together by a brutal dictator. When he left, no matter how he left, chaos did/would ensue. Quote
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 I di'nt say it was good policy, i asked you how it was a failed policy.....if your suggesting that there is a problem with meeting goals where is it? i not the one making these claims you are. and i did'nt blame the fiscal restraint as the end all of excuses, i have suggested that it may of played a role....And so what if other countries have better humanitarian skills than us, at the end of the day what does it matter. there are plenty of lists out there in the world that we are not on the top off....spending on our military forces.....does that make us a bad nation..... what claims have I made? Specifically - name them. Other than providing my opinion, centered around provided cites, I've simply stated a case for the failed refugee policy/commitments of Harper Conservatives. I appreciate your only comeback to showcasing a significantly reduced comparative country ranking and speaking to failed refugee commitment numbers... your only comeback is to distract/deflect. . Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.