The cost of Migrants

[jacee]

What does the Charter have to do with importing mysoginist Jew hating gay hating Muslims to Canada?

Non discrimination against a whole group of people (race, religion, etc).

But I am repeating myself.

You're a smart guy. I am sure you know what discrimination is, in theory at least.

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[jacee]

Some might, others might be young single men who don't have a wife and children waiting for them in the refugee camp.

But isn't the larger message here that the ones most in need of help are the ones waiting in the refugee camps, not the ones trying to swarm into Europe?

-k

The ones in the refugee camps are safely out of Syria, at least. The others trying to cross borders are not yet.

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[jacee]

Not the look but class of people that makes them low class people with no wealth and therefore no value to Canada.

How do you know that by "sight"?

What "sight" 'makes you sick?'

People of no wealth have no value to Canada?

Maybe you are not a smart guy after all.

Maybe that's acceptable thinking where you came from?

But you don't seem to have any grasp of Canadian values.

I think you came to the wrong country.

Obviously we need to tweak our entry criteria a bit.

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Edited September 14, 2015 by jacee

[Scotty]

Non discrimination against a whole group of people (race, religion, etc).

Where is the intelligence in not discriminating against a whole group of people who will come here and discriminate against you?

[jacee]

I thought that immigrants didn't have to assimilate. So which is it. Do immigrants assimilate or not?

I guess you did miss my point.

Canadians and new arrivals are required to respect the laws of Canada, including the Constitution Act and Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Beyond respecting the laws, we are free to be whatever religion we choose, or none, to associate with whom we choose, and to speak freely however we choose.

.

[jacee]

Where is the intelligence in not discriminating against a whole group of people who will come here and discriminate against you?

What evidence can you provide of any group discriminating against me?

To me, you've made a discriminatory statement with no basis in fact.

It's just fearmongering and bigotry.

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Edited September 14, 2015 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

I guess you did miss my point.

Canadians and new arrivals are required to respect the laws of Canada, including the Constitution Act and Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Beyond respecting the laws, we are free to be whatever religion we choose, or none, to associate with whom we choose, and to speak freely however we choose.

.

Why is it so hard to get xenophobes to understand the basics you point out here I wonder?

[jacee]

Why is it so hard to get xenophobes to understand the basics you point out here I wonder?

Because they only have half a brain.

Right hemisphere doesn't work so they can't deal with complexity.

Everything has to be simple, and they live in constant fear of the unknown.

Politicians like Harper take full advantage of that and keep them in constant fear.

Sad, really.

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Edited September 14, 2015 by jacee

[cybercoma]

Why is it so hard to get xenophobes to understand the basics you point out here I wonder?

Well, for one thing, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Constitution are not laws that govern individuals in Canada.

[Canada_First]

Because they only have half a brain.

Right hemisphere doesn't work so they can't deal with complexity.

Everything has to be simple, and they live in constant fear of the unknown.

Politicians like Harper take full advantage of that and keep them in constant fear.

Sad, really.

.

Look what the Muslims in Europe are doing. Is that fear mongering? No. That is reality. Canada will be in the same position in 10 years. Thats what I'd like to avoid while you're happy to drive us off the same cliff.

In Sweden the Muslims are causing a ton of problems. High crime. High unemployment. Non assimilation. Taking over entire towns. See Malmo.

And you want the same for Canada. Why?

Why is it so important that Canada have these same problems?

[On Guard for Thee]

Well, for one thing, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Constitution are not laws that govern individuals in Canada.

They govern the courts which govern individuals in Canada.

[jacee]

Well, for one thing, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Constitution are not laws that govern individuals in Canada.

?

Not sure what you mean by that.

Certainly every individual cop has to uphold the Constitution and Charter, and every landlord, business, service provider.

We can speak bigotry freely, unless it becomes incitement to hatred or violence.

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[cybercoma]

They govern the courts which govern individuals in Canada.

Huh? That's not even close to being right. The Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms are what's used to determine which laws are valid. The laws are what the courts use to make decisions. Until a law is overturned by the Supreme Court, it's the law of the land in Canada. The Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms have nothing to do with governing individuals. They govern our laws and it's the laws that govern individuals. What you're looking for with respect to discrimination and the other things in the charter are the provincial human rights codes. Those are laws that govern individuals and businesses.

[cybercoma]

?

Not sure what you mean by that.

Certainly every individual cop has to uphold the Constitution and Charter,

Cops are agents of the government.

and every landlord, business, service provider.

No. They're not governed by the charter of rights and freedoms. They're governed by the provincial human rights codes.

We can speak bigotry freely, unless it becomes incitement to hatred or violence.

That too is not part of the Constitution or Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's part of the Canadian Human Rights Act as well as sections of the Criminal Code of Canada. Again, the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is only applied to laws in Canada. It's used to determine legal validity. It's not a law itself that individuals have to follow.

[On Guard for Thee]

Huh? That's not even close to being right. The Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms are what's used to determine which laws are valid. The laws are what the courts use to make decisions. Until a law is overturned by the Supreme Court, it's the law of the land in Canada. The Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms have nothing to do with governing individuals. They govern our laws and it's the laws that govern individuals. What you're looking for with respect to discrimination and the other things in the charter are the provincial human rights codes. Those are laws that govern individuals and businesses.

When an individual goes to court with let's say a criminal charge, they are being charged under a law that exists based on it's constitutionality. Can't see how you would say the constitution doesn't affect individuals.

Edited September 14, 2015 by On Guard for Thee

[jacee]

Look what the Muslims in Europe are doing.

Some Muslims are doing ... what exactly?

Not all Muslims. That's bigotry, smearing all because of the actions of some.

Is that fear mongering?

Yes.

No. That is reality. Canada will be in the same position in 10 years. Thats what I'd like to avoid while you're happy to drive us off the same cliff.

In Sweden the Muslims are causing a ton of problems. High crime. High unemployment. Non assimilation. Taking over entire towns. See Malmo.

And you want the same for Canada. Why?

Why is it so important that Canada have these same problems?

We already have a lot of Muslims in Canada.

What problems do we have ?

Fearmongering Harper Conservatives is the problem we have.

And it is only for political gain, taking advantage of weak minds to get their votes.

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Edited September 14, 2015 by jacee

[cybercoma]

When an individual goes to court with let's say a criminal charge, they are being charged under a law that exists based on it's constitutionality. Can't see how you would say the constitution doesn't affect individuals.

I didn't say it doesn't affect individuals. I said they don't govern individuals.

[cybercoma]

Remember, I'm responding to you patting jacee on the back for saying people need to "respect the Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms." When you say someone must "respect the law," that is understood to mean that they have to follow that law. Individuals don't follow the Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms as laws. They have to follow the Criminal Code of Canada. They have to follow a variety of human rights codes across the country. The government when creating laws has to follow the Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's not a law governing individuals, unless you're an agent of the government, acting on its behalf.

Edited September 14, 2015 by cybercoma

[Canada_First]

Some Muslims are doing ... what exactly?

Not all Muslims. That's bigotry, smearing all because of the actions of some.Yes.

We already have a lot of Muslims in Canada.

What problems do we have ?

Fearmongering Harper Conservatives is the problem we have.

And it is only for political gain, taking advantage of weak minds to get their votes.

.

Harper is a socialist. He should join the NDP. He's not a conservative at all.

[Canada_First]

I call Charlie Hebdo a problem.

I call Muslim gangs raping white girls a problem.

I call riots by Muslims in France a problem.

I call the high unemployment,crime and non assimilation by Muslims problems.

You call that progress.

[jacee]

I call Charlie Hebdo a problem.

I call Muslim gangs raping white girls a problem.

I call riots by Muslims in France a problem.

I call the high unemployment,crime and non assimilation by Muslims problems.

You call that progress.

Don't tell me what I think.

I call that problems created by a small proportion of extremist criminals.

It is just bigotry to apply that to all Muslims.

High unemployment among Muslims ... do you think discrimination is at the heart of that, or just weak economies?

http://cnmag.ca/issue-19/786-muslim-community-reaches-out-e08

I'm not sure what you call non assimilation.

Does that also apply to Mennonites ?

I don't have a problem with people choosing to live and associate with whomever they please.

Do you?

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Edited September 14, 2015 by jacee

[marcus]

Some might, others might be young single men who don't have a wife and children waiting for them in the refugee camp.

But isn't the larger message here that the ones most in need of help are the ones waiting in the refugee camps, not the ones trying to swarm into Europe?

-k

Of course. Many of the refugees outside of Iraq and Syria are receiving help through the UN and other agencies. But this is just to keep them alive. If the countries who are willing to help can send large planes to transport these people to their countries, then, I'm sure, you would be seeing something different.

Another boat has capsized with women and children drowning:

Dozens of refugees including babies, children drown as boat capsizes off Greece

[Canada_First]

Of course. Many of the refugees outside of Iraq and Syria are receiving help through the UN and other agencies. But this is just to keep them alive. If the countries who are willing to help can send large planes to transport these people to their countries, then, I'm sure, you would be seeing something different.

Another boat has capsized with women and children drowning:

Dozens of refugees including babies, children drown as boat capsizes off Greece

They should stay home. And not try to invade foreign countries. They're filth. They're Jew and Israel hating Muslims. They're not compatible with the west.

[marcus]

I call Muslim gangs raping white girls a problem.

I'm assuming you're talking about the Pakistani guys in Rotherham, England that bigots and racists reference frequently in order to paint all Muslims as rapists and degenerates.

Did you hear about the latest pedophile case in England, involving these guys - Let me know if they represent white guys:

Clockwise from top left: John Denham, Matthew Stansfield, Adam Toms, Matthew Lisk, Robin Hollyson, Christopher Knight and David Harsley.

UK: Paedophile gang raped babies and toddlers and streamed abuse over Internet

A paedophile gang engaged in the sexual abuse of young children, including a baby, and streamed the acts on the internet, Bristol Crown Court heard. The gang members, convicted of 29 child sex offences, have been described as "sick, depraved, callous and cruel."

The sexual abuse and rape incidents that included multiple rape of a child under 13 were streamed on the internet between 2013 and 2014.

Real time internet instructions were provided to those involved in child abuse and often "date rape" drugs were used on babies, Bristol Crown Court heard.

The youngsters' families were often groomed and in one case, parents were groomed before even the birth of their baby.

"The manner of it is sufficiently disturbing that it would not be capable of being reported by the press in any eventuality," Robert Davies, prosecuting, told the court, reported BBC News.

[Argus]

Oh I don't think a hundred years from now Canada will have Sharia law. I suspect a lot of the people who come here do so because they like the idea of our laws,

You suspect that, huh? I've never met an immigrant or refugee who came here because they knew about, respected or gave a damn about our laws. They came here because we're rich and they want to be rich. The Muslim population is expected to triple by 2020 to over 6%, which is greater than the percentage of aboriginals in Canada. There seems to be a tipping point in most countries that hovers around 9-11%. Once there are that many Muslims you start getting demands for preferential treatment and laws which respect their beliefs, riots and political violence, and more extremism. It won't take long to go from 6% to 9%.