Scientist protest song....its a hit!

[Smallc]

As has been pointed out here already on this thread, if you work for the gov. of Canada, you don't work for the PM.

So you can't explain the difference then, since that isn't one (you don't work for a CEO directly either, but he's still your boss, just like the PM).

[BubberMiley]

So you can't explain the difference then, since that isn't one (you don't work for a CEO directly either, but he's still your boss, just like the PM).

The difference is a civil servant also has rights as a citizen to criticize the government in the capacity of a citizen. There is no comparable right to criticize the CEO of a private company.

[Big Guy]

If you work within an organization in an attempt to change it then you are trying to fix it. If you go public in an attempt to change it then you are doing it harm. ergo - you don't like the way we do things? Then goodbye!

[BubberMiley]

But he was not commenting on his job. It had nothing to do with his job. It was the government that decided to bring his job into it.

[Smallc]

But he was not commenting on his job. It had nothing to do with his job.

He was criticizing science policy, and he was a government scientist.

[BubberMiley]

He was criticizing science policy, and he was a government scientist.

But he did not identify himself or speak as a government scientist. He spoke as a private citizen singer of questionable talent. No one would have known he was a public employee if the government did not consider it necessary to identify individuals who show dissent and silence them however possible.

[Smallc]

But he did not identify himself or speak as a government scientist.

That is irrelevant. That would be the case no matter where he were working.

He spoke as a private citizen singer of questionable talent.

And he's a government scientist. That's simply the way things are.

[BubberMiley]

That is irrelevant. That would be the case no matter where he were working.And he's a government scientist. That's simply the way things are.

That may be the case anywhere else, but private citizens---even civil servants---have the right to engage and express political opinions as private citizens. They're even allowed to join political parties and have lawn signs and vote for their favourite candidate. They're not allowed to exploit their position for political purposes, however, like, oh, say, the government is doing in this instance.

[On Guard for Thee]

He was criticizing science policy, and he was a government scientist.

I think he was criticizing the muzzling of gov. scientists, which is kind of exactly what we are seeing in this incident.

[Evening Star]

That may be the case anywhere else, but private citizens---even civil servants---have the right to engage and express political opinions as private citizens. They're even allowed to join political parties and have lawn signs and vote for their favourite candidate. They're not allowed to exploit their position for political purposes, however, like, oh, say, the government is doing in this instance.

Yeah, I'm curious where the line is for the 'can't badmouth the boss' people. If I work for a music school, I may well lose my job for telling people to buy books somewhere else, even if they are cheaper. But we, even Conservative posters, are generally fine with public servants having signs on their lawn that promote an Opposition party. So we are all accepting of some difference between public servants and private sector workers in this regard. Where is the line, then? At which point is disciplinary action justified? Argus has given his interpretation of where the line is in #10 but that still seems a bit fuzzy and quite open to interpretation. Do others see it the same way? Setting the line at "where it interferes with his ability to do his job" seems clear enough.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Evening Star

[Smallc]

Setting the line at "where it interferes with his ability to do his job" seems clear enough.

By attacking an organization, you undermine its credibility. As an employee, you can't do that, work time or not.

[Smallc]

I think he was criticizing the muzzling of gov. scientists, which is kind of exactly what we are seeing in this incident.

What we're seeing here is an employee being disciplined for attacking the organization that he works for. It happens quite often in the private sector.

[Topaz]

If one bad mouths their boss and the boss is a CEO of a company, then that could affect the business, but how does it affect the senior civil SERVANT, the PM? Canadians have already have their view on Harper and the Tories and what this guy was singing about is what a majority of Canadians already feel only this guy put into a son. Where's the government sense of humor.......Harper was making fun of Justin yesterday and the deficit and I never seen Harper act that way, started to think that maybe he had too many beers before he arrive at the location.

[Evening Star]

By attacking an organization, you undermine its credibility. As an employee, you can't do that, work time or not.

So where is the line? If he had an NDP sign on his lawn, would you object? He would be promoting a competitor to the current government.

What about the scientists who attended this rally?: http://globalnews.ca/news/843344/scientists-across-canada-rally-to-protest-harper-government/Should they have all lost their jobs? What is the difference?

[Smallc]

So where is the line? If he had an NDP sign on his lawn, would you object? He would be promoting a competitor to the current government.

I would say that they shouldn't, but that's much more quiet. Making a video of yourself singing about the guy currently in charge of the organization you work for, in a non flattering way, just isn't a smart career move.

[The Punch Line]

The problems all the conservatives on this thread have is that they keep saying this guy badmouthed the "boss" of the "organization" he works for.

He did no such thing.

The "organization" he works for is Environment Canada. He did not criticize Environment Canada or any of its policies. His "boss" may be considered to be the Minister of the Environment. He did not criticize the Minister. I like to think that his actual bosses are the people paying his salary, the Canadian taxpayers. He did not criticize the Canadian taxpayers.

A citizen of Canada does not abdicate his charter rights by working as a federal civil servant. (There are necessary exceptions to this that might concern departments like the Armed Forces, CSIS, and the Diplomatic Corps). Otherwise, when he is on his own time, the fellow is free to say anything he likes, short of hate speech.

One of the reasons I'll be happy to see the back of Stephen Harper and his minions is that the conservatives of this country will have to take a well deserved back seat for a while. I hope they use that time to study the Charter, and to fully realize that the PM (whatever his or her party) just can't ignore the Law of the Land whenever it suits them.

[Smallc]

The "organization" he works for is Environment Canada.

A department of the Government of Canada.

[On Guard for Thee]

A department of the Government of Canada.

If he sues, he'll win.

[Freddy]

Feminists are fed up with Harper. He's too good for white males. It's time for him to go.

That was the obvious message of this song.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Freddy

[On Guard for Thee]

Feminists are fed up with Harper. He's too good for white males. It's time for him to go.

That was the obvious message of this song.

Tme to go is right.

[Freddy]

Tme to go is right.

I'll switch my vote from liberal to conservative this election.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'll switch my vote from liberal to conservative this election.

And you have every right to.

[Freddy]

And you have every right to.

i think I've just witnessed you being reasonable towards me for the first time.... Thanks I appreciate it. Edited August 30, 2015 by Freddy

[Topaz]

Maybe he should have sang Twisted Sister's....We can't going to take it, anymore!!!

[Argus]

Tme to go is right.

If only there was an alternative which would result in better government.