Horrific Crash On Trans Canada Highway

[maplesyrup]

Mulroney when he was in power, tried his best to desmantle Canada's Railway system.

Now because of that shortsightedness, we constantly have these massive trucks travelling on our highways, much to the danger of Canada's travelling public, our commuters.

A good example of what goes wrong with these brain-dead schemes, happened today in North Vancouver. Watch for it on your evening news!

[Pateris]

What the heck are you talking about? How did Mulroney destroy the rail system?

CP and CN are running near capacity. The problem in a large country is that trucks and roads are cheaper than trains. The government could subsidize trains (or penalize trucks), but that would be interference in the market.

[maplesyrup]

We can and will build up a Northern power

We must reverse the disastrous policy of ripping up our rail lines and selling them for scrap. Countries around the world are taking steps to enhance their rail capacity. Europe runs on trains. For the sake of the environment and for reasons of efficiency we must follow suit.

Under my direction we would enhance our rail capacity, move more goods and people by rail thus cutting down the pollution and congestion in our major cities and highways.

Canada's railways were sold out in favour of the trucking industry a long time ago. We are now paying the price for that folly on our roads and highways. Don't you ever go out for a drive?

[maplesyrup]

Privatization spin and reality don't add up

It was a mess. Instead of fixing it they sold what they could, privatized some of it and wantonly dismantled what wasn't profitable. VIA still staggers along supported by federal funds.

  CN privatized then closed thousands of miles, massacring it's work force, and restoring fiscal balance. It all makes good financial sense if you believe that public interest is best served by discarding anything that can't make a profit.

  Interesting that highways don't make a profit but we spend money like water to widen and repair them. One critic asked: "Why do governments refer to highway money as an investment and railway money as a subsidy?

I thought everyone knew what happened to our railway system.

[Pateris]

maplesyrup,

The difference is that the public uses the roads. Only private companies use rails. Perhaps the real solution is that all highways should be toll roads - the users could therefore pay for them. Additionally, public transport like subways should only get money from fares and advertising. This would make the users pay the full cost.

A profit isn't a dirty word. Profit is what makes the economy grow and improves standards of living. Nothing else can.

[caesar]

You can blame Mulroney for many things, with my blessing. But how do you get a logging truck accident being his fault due to not using trains???? Logging truck have always been used to take logs to the mill or trains.

The large number of cars on the road is due to population increasing and transit cannot satisfy much of our transportation needs,

[maplesyrup]

Any way you wish to slice it, we need to get those big trucks off the roads.

Maybe 20 year jail sentences for the drivers and the owners of those large vehicles/trucking companies that kill people will put a stop to this madness.

[maplesyrup]

No one said profit is a dirty word although there can be excess profits, and that is why we need to repair our tax system. But that is another story.

The automobile industry has been subsidised for years, perhaps since its beginning, with the public money that has been used for our roads. The least that can be done is provide proper and safe roadways, and free public commuter transportation systems.

[maplesyrup]

2 killed in West Vancouver logging truck spill

Two people died and four were injured after a logging truck lost its load on a busy West Vancouver highway Thursday afternoon.

A truck headed west on the Trans-Canada Highway between Capilano Road and Taylor Way lost its load. Logs shot over the centre barrier and impacted five cars travelling in the opposite direction at about 2:30 p.m. Thursday, West Vancouver police told CTV.ca.

Live video footage from CTV-9's news helicopter showed emergency services workers using the jaws of life to cut the roof off a car. They managed to free the trapped woman inside.

Was this truck driver driver speeding?

[playfullfellow]

MS, your distatste for large trucks on the roadways should be directed at the current federal government who spends only approximately 16% of our fuel taxes on our roads while other countries spend closer to 60%.

You ever drive a big rig? I highly doubt it, it doesn't pay more than the monthly cheque from the government. It is not always the fault of the rig driver either. People in small cars drive too close, cut off rigs at an astounding rate, drive in the blind spot continually and cut off trucks on a regular basis. Besides, it is not economical for the rail system to haul everything that large trucks haul. The logistics would be a nightmare.

Before you start laying the blame, spend a few weeks, heck even a week doing long distance hauls and then get back to me and see if you have the same attitude.

I do however agree with you to a certain extent about jail time for truckers that kill in an accident but only if they were driving an unsafe truck. If that is the case, then they should be locked up. But then again, how many people drive a car that is unsafe?

[maplesyrup]

pff.........I know that car drivers do stupid things in car, believe me. But an accident involving a big truck like a logging truck, and a car, is not the same as a couple of cars colliding, it is more like a car and a bicycle, or a car and a pedestrian. I am sure that the truck drivers are much better drivers they have to be.

Maybe big trucks going through residential areas should have to travel at night, after midnight, or something like that. All I know is that we never used to have these huge trucks on the roads so much.

[ceemes]

Any way you wish to slice it, we need to get those big trucks off the roads.

Maybe 20 year jail sentences for the drivers and the owners of those large vehicles/trucking companies that kill people will put a stop to this madness.

As many of you are aware, I have been away from the forum for a bit, started a new job and funnily enough that job is directly related to this thread.

I am the Operation Manager and Driver Supervisor for a trucking firm and I can tell you point blank, you get rid of those big trucks, you will starve and freeze this winter.

Truckers for the most part are professional drivers and trucking companies are except for a small minority I could name extremely safety aware.

This accident is a tragedy and the odds are that the driver of the logging truck was an independant trucker. These guys operate in a highly competitive environment, basically working for piece work money, the more trips they make, the more money they earn...and given the cost of fuel, repairs, insurance and the capital cost of the truck and trailer, they have to work long hours just to make ends meet.

And because they do, you can enjoy relatively cheap goods and products. Rail is good for point to point transport between major centres, but no good for door to door delivery.

[ceemes]

MS, your distatste for large trucks on the roadways should be directed at the current federal government who spends only approximately 16% of our fuel taxes on our roads while other countries spend closer to 60%.

You ever drive a big rig? I highly doubt it, it doesn't pay more than the monthly cheque from the government. It is not always the fault of the rig driver either. People in small cars drive too close, cut off rigs at an astounding rate, drive in the blind spot continually and cut off trucks on a regular basis. Besides, it is not economical for the rail system to haul everything that large trucks haul. The logistics would be a nightmare.

Before you start laying the blame, spend a few weeks, heck even a week doing long distance hauls and then get back to me and see if you have the same attitude.

I do however agree with you to a certain extent about jail time for truckers that kill in an accident but only if they were driving an unsafe truck. If that is the case, then they should be locked up. But then again, how many people drive a car that is unsafe?

I agree.....he should get his class one and then come see me....I'll put him in a fairly new Volvo hauling 48' reefers around the Lower Mainland of BC for a week...

[caesar]

Accidents happen; trains kill people too. If you called for more safety inspections< I could understand but trains and trucks are NOT interchangeable. When trains de rail the carnage is even greater.

[Big Blue Machine]

Accidents happen. You can't politicalize accidents. Trail derailments happen under any gov't. Remember Mississauga train derailment of 79? Bill Davis and Trudeau weren't kicked out of office just because of a big fire.

[playfullfellow]

Of most of the drivers I know, the majority of them really dislike Vnavouver, not because it is a bad city or anything but an absolute nightmare to get around in. MS, you are rightt to a point when it comes to driving through residential areas but unfotunately, a lot of shipping companies do not load at night. Set delivery deadlines also wreak havoc with drivers. Any driver that has a choice will wait in Chiliwack until 8 PM before he heads for Vancouver to avoid the majority of the traffic.

If Vancouver wants to alleviate a lot of the problems with big trucks, then they need to set up central shipping yards in the lower mainland where trucks can drop off and pick up loads and local drivers can deliver it around the city. This would alleviate the problem of drivers who do not know where things are going down the wrong streets in Vancouver. Another problem is that a lot of the shipping is by the water, you have to go from one side of the city to the other if you are coming from the East to pick a load. This has to be alleviated also by maybe one designated lane for trucks. But as long as you want to enjoy cheap products that are delivered on time and in good shape, you will have to put up with the current situation.

[Big Blue Machine]

Accidents happen. You can't politicalize accidents. Trail derailments happen under any gov't. Remember Mississauga train derailment of 79? Bill Davis and Trudeau weren't kicked out of office just because of a big train fire.

[Neal.F.]

One reason for the state of our highways, is that we don't have weight restrictions on Canadian highways, except between March 15 and May 15th, which is the Spring thaw.

Another probelm is that Canadian roads (especially in Quebec are poorly built and maintained even less.

I go to New hampshire where there is not state income tax,ans their roads are top notch. They are built on proper foundations, and they don't cheap out on materials. For those who have never been there, New hampshire is a mountainous area, and you wake up to temps of near freezing even in summer, and winter conditions are more harsh there than in most of Quebec.

I can say the same about Vermont and maine roads too.

The only place in the USA that does not have weight restrictions on the roads is Michigan, and my experience driving there is that their roads are still better than Canadian, because they don't cheap out.

[maplesyrup]

I am sorry but trucks such as the one yesterday that crashed in West Vancouver cannot be allowed to be on the public roads. it is just too dangerous, and there is not enough union protection for the drivers to be properly looked after, and to be in proper condition. The government, through organizations like WCB, needs to step in and take a serious look at what has happened to the safety of our roads in the last 25 years. If we have to pay more for our goods so be it.

[Neal.F.]

the governments in our excessively overtaxed jurisdictions should become more accountable for how they spend our money.

As I said if New hampshire with no state income tax can build good roads, so can Canadian provinces.

[maplesyrup]

the governments in our excessively overtaxed jurisdictions should become more accountable for how they spend our money.

As I said if New hampshire with no state income tax can build good roads, so can Canadian provinces.

You make taxes sound as if they are bad. They are not, they are good, and we would not have schools, roads, healthcare, police, military, libraries, parks, etc., without them. None of us particularly enjoys paying them but we would not have services for all without them. If New Hampshire is so wonderful why don't you move there? You sound like you fit right in with Bush's United States anyways.

[Neal.F.]

Now that Bush has been re-elected, the idea of going stateside is tempting.

Vist New hampshire sometime. I challenge you to find anywhere else a place with better state parks.

The only state taxes there are are value added taxes, and that is only on hotels & restaurants and other luxuries. yet they manage just fine.

I will agree that some taxation is neccesary, but not the outrageous taxes we pay in Canada for 3d rate healthcare, non-existent so-security, 5th rate roads and infastructure and undefunded armed forces.

What is being taken from us is in large part wasted, or mismanaged. It's really about poor stewardship. we could cut our taxes substantially if money was well managed.

Why not defund special interest groups, multiculturalism, and political parties just for starters?

[Cartman]

Neal F. Posted on Nov 12 2004, 04:06 PM

Now that Bush has been re-elected, the idea of going stateside is tempting.

Whatever. November 11th we are paying tribute to the noble soldiers who died or endured permanent psychic scars for our freedom and then on November 12th you are complaining about taxes!? Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. If this is all that your citizenship means to you then I say "smell ya later". Have fun paying privately for all the things our taxpayers currently provide you. Just make sure you repay the Canadian government for the bus ticket when you return.

[ceemes]

I am sorry but trucks such as the one yesterday that crashed in West Vancouver cannot be allowed to be on the public roads. it is just too dangerous, and there is not enough union protection for the drivers to be properly looked after, and to be in proper condition. The government, through organizations like WCB, needs to step in and take a serious look at what has happened to the safety of our roads in the last 25 years. If we have to pay more for our goods so be it.

You are making assumptions about the state of the truck, the drivers ability before you have all the facts.

Union Protection:

The majority of North American truckers are independent owner/operators and classed as small business owners. The only differance between them and other small business owners is that their shop or office moves on our highways. There is a blanket organization called the BCTF (British Columbia Truckers Federation) that does act as a governing body and defacto union, or rather a professional organization, howeve, membership in the organization is strictly volanteery and is not a requirement to drive.

Because the industry has been deregulated, shipping rates are now market driven instead of being set by a governing body. Trucking companies and independent operators are now able to set their own rates and under-cut each other. For the shipper and general consumer, this is a boon. For the carrier and driver, it is not such a good thing.

WCB:

The only thing WCB covers is worker compensation insurance. All trucking companies have to supply coverage for inhouse drivers and all owner-operators have to supply coverage for themselves and their swampers.

DOT:

The DOT is mandated to ensure that all drivers are properly licenced and trained and that their vehicles are in good repair and operational order. Also, it sets the amount of hours any class one driver operating line haul (Long haul) may work per day.

However, there are no restriction on the amount of hours a local tractor driver, be that driver hauling cans or logs can work. Indeed, there have been times during the current busy season I have had driver working up to 16 hours per day. If I do have a driver pulling such a shift, I make sure that he is off for at least a day before I put him on the road again. Many indepenant operators, especially those hauling raw logs out of the woods and into the mills do not have that luxury, they have to work as much as possible during the season to make their money

Economics:

As we all know, the cost of fuel, insurance, trucks, trailers, and maintenance has been steadily increasing these past few years. However, the freight rates charged to shippers have not been keeping pace with these increased costs. These means that many independant operators are forced to work longer hours and try to squeeze that addition few hundred klicks out of their breaks, tyres, and other maintenance items. Driver fatique is a major problem throughout the entire owner-operator community and until shippers and consumers are willing to cough up the addition coin to pay a decent freight rate, these problems will continue to grow along with highway accidents.

Also, truckers pay a hell of a lot more in the way of direct and indirect highway taxes then the average motorist does. And they are the logistics life line that keeps all of our communities alive and kicking. I would argue that they have more right to the highways then joe blow commuter does.

[maplesyrup]

I am not making any judgements about the specific incident yesterday in West/North Vancouver.

But it has been bothering me for a long time, that these big trucks are now too big for our roads. And probably because of deregulation, drivers are not paid properly, or enough, so they work excessive hours, and when one is overly tired is when a lot of accidents happen. Just because that is the system, does not necessarily mean it is a good system.