Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 The problem is now the erosion of trust. If they were caught on something like this, then what about when the stakes were higher? What hasn't been caught? I agree with you. It makes me trust them less. Quote
PIK Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 After 13 yrs of chretien , this government is pretty clean. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Honestly, I'm glad I don't have to make the decision as to whether to question a PM during an election campaign. But after reading the testimony reports, it sure sounds like Duffy was the patsy that wouldn't quite fit under the bus when he was thrown. It's hard to think of Duffy as a victim but it sounds like the problem originated with him taking the PM's word that he qualified as a resident of PEI. That's a remarkable attempt at spin there given that the discussion between Harper took place AFTER Duffy had already been caught claiming the PEI residence as his. If you want to blame anyone blame the Senate for their lax rules and even laxer enforcement. For a very long time people have been appointed to the Senate to represent this or that province even though they hadn't lived there in quite some time. Nobody cared. It's the senate! Where things really went off the rails was when certain Senators, IE Mike Duffy, decided that he should now claim a housing allowance for his own house in Ottawa. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 That's a remarkable attempt at spin there given that the discussion between Harper took place AFTER Duffy had already been caught claiming the PEI residence as his. If you want to blame anyone blame the Senate for their lax rules and even laxer enforcement. For a very long time people have been appointed to the Senate to represent this or that province even though they hadn't lived there in quite some time. Nobody cared. It's the senate! Where things really went off the rails was when certain Senators, IE Mike Duffy, decided that he should now claim a housing allowance for his own house in Ottawa. It was Harper who told Duffy he didn't need to worry about his residency concerns, so you have the cart before the horse on that one. Quote
Argus Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah, it's starting to look like it wasn't a bribe or extortion on either side, even if the PM was lying. It was message management. I think Harper has been bedeviled for a while by very large stories which have no real substance but long legs. Going back to the Afghan detainee thing, through the census change to cancelling a few arts grants in Quebec, and the purchase or attempt to purchase the F-35. These are non stories which went on for freaking ever as the media reveled in anything that would make Harper look bad. He clearly saw the senate nonsense as another such bad cess story of no real consequence in relation to what he was doing, or how the country was doing, and he wanted to get rid of. Hard to blame him, really. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 After 13 yrs of chretien , this government is pretty clean. Sorry, PIK, but have some conviction. The promise wasn't "less corrupt than the Liberals." The promise was openness and accountability. The promise was to clean up Ottawa. That's exactly why I voted for the CPC in 2006. They've completely failed to deliver on that promise. There are no new systems of accountability nor openness. They've pushed out the overseers that they put in place (PBO) and filled the positions with partisan cronies. They could have done more, much more, to improve Parliament while they were there and after they left by creating systems of accountability and openness. On that they've failed, and failed miserably. Conservatives didn't vote for Harper because he promised to be "not as corrupt as Chretien." They voted for change. And despite having a majority government for the last 4 years, that change was never implemented. Quote
Argus Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) It was Harper who told Duffy he didn't need to worry about his residency concerns, so you have the cart before the horse on that one. It was in 2013 after everything came to light. Well, not everything. I seem to recall they thought it was a much smaller amount at first. But through the decades many, many people have been appointed to the senate, often after serving prominently for many decades in the government - away from their putative home province, and nobody cared. Edited August 25, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 It was in 2013 after everything came to light. Well, not everything. I seem to recall they thought it was a much smaller amount at first. But through the decades many, many people have been appointed to the senate, often after serving prominently for many decades in the government - away from their putative home province, and nobody cared. Duffy expressed his concerns about residency close to the time he was appointed. He asked Harper about being appointed as a senator from Ontario, but was told no by the PM who needed to fill a seat from PEI. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 I always thought we were allowed to have opinions. By all means. Prejudge the outcome of the trial. But just to allow everyone to appropriately weight your opinion, can you tell us your legal credentials? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Sorry, PIK, but have some conviction. The promise wasn't "less corrupt than the Liberals." The promise was openness and accountability. The promise was to clean up Ottawa. That's exactly why I voted for the CPC in 2006. They've completely failed to deliver on that promise. There are no new systems of accountability nor openness. They've pushed out the overseers that they put in place (PBO) and filled the positions with partisan cronies. Hey, man. You're bumming out the Harper echo chamber with all these facts. Why can't you just sing along with the choir? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Duffy expressed his concerns about residency close to the time he was appointed. He asked Harper about being appointed as a senator from Ontario, but was told no by the PM who needed to fill a seat from PEI. Yes. This is Harper's mess and all of the cover-ups that culminated in the behavior that is now before the court were attempts to cover for him. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yes. This is Harper's mess and all of the cover-ups that culminated in the behavior that is now before the court were attempts to cover for him. Duffy is looking more and more like a pawn in a much larger game. I thought the case was set to go on until end of the week, but it is now adjourned until Nov 18. Harper I'm sure has his fingers x'ed in the hopes Canadians will forget. However I suspect the damage may already be done among soft/swing voters. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Harper I'm sure has his fingers x'ed in the hopes Canadians will forget. However I suspect the damage may already be done among soft/swing voters. Certainly, that is what he's hoping. People won't remember this details but I think this has permanently tarnished his image as the calm, competent politician and finally exposed what a scheming, conniving PMO he runs. Now, in the middle of a recession caused by an economy too dependent on oil and a stock market crash, he's stuck explaining what an economic genius he is. Edited August 25, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Certainly, that is what he's hoping. People won't remember this details but I think this has permanently tarnished his image as the calm, competent politician and finally exposed what a scheming, conniving PMO he runs. Now, in the middle of a recession caused by an economy too dependent on oil and a stock market crash, he's stuck explaining what an economic genius he is. Yes I thought he was supposed to be an economist? Quote
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 By all means. Prejudge the outcome of the trial. But just to allow everyone to appropriately weight your opinion, can you tell us your legal credentials? I'm not the only one with this opinion at this point. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 I'm not the only one with this opinion at this point. Yes. There are plenty of people with no qualifications and they all have opinions. If any of you are lawyers, they might be worth something. Otherwise, I'll wait to hear what the judge says. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yes I thought he was supposed to be an economist? He is supposed to be an economist. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yes. There are plenty of people with no qualifications and they all have opinions. If any of you are lawyers, they might be worth something. Otherwise, I'll wait to hear what the judge says. I can't render a decision. I can voice an opinion. If the judge disagrees, it doesn't matter. If he does...still doesn't matter. Quote
Argus Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Duffy expressed his concerns about residency close to the time he was appointed. He asked Harper about being appointed as a senator from Ontario, but was told no by the PM who needed to fill a seat from PEI. That wasn't what was testified to at the trial. If you have information to the contrary, feel free to post it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 That wasn't what was testified to at the trial. If you have information to the contrary, feel free to post it. I'm afraid it was. It was in Duffy's emails. Quote
Argus Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I'm afraid it was. It was in Duffy's emails. Not from Harper or his office. Questions were raised. By whom? We don't know yet. But they were concerning enough for the aide of Marjory LeBreton, the Government Leader in the Senate, to write a memo to both Duffy and Pamela Wallin describing the Senate's residency and property requirements. Wallin was another former television star who was called to the Senate to represent her home province of Saskatchewan but who more accurately resided in Ontario. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/althia-raj/mike-duffy-stephen-harper-trial_b_7043622.html The aide, Chris McCreery, said his understanding was that as long as a senator owned property in the province, he or she could represent the region in the Senate, even while living "in Ottawa 99 per cent of the time." Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Not from Harper or his office. Questions were raised. By whom? We don't know yet. But they were concerning enough for the aide of Marjory LeBreton, the Government Leader in the Senate, to write a memo to both Duffy and Pamela Wallin describing the Senate's residency and property requirements. Wallin was another former television star who was called to the Senate to represent her home province of Saskatchewan but who more accurately resided in Ontario. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/althia-raj/mike-duffy-stephen-harper-trial_b_7043622.html The aide, Chris McCreery, said his understanding was that as long as a senator owned property in the province, he or she could represent the region in the Senate, even while living "in Ottawa 99 per cent of the time." You missed it again. Duffy was concerned about his eligibility under the constitution. Harper pushed his concerns aside. Quote
Argus Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 You missed it again. Duffy was concerned about his eligibility under the constitution. Harper pushed his concerns aside. Cite it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
poochy Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 By all means. Prejudge the outcome of the trial. But just to allow everyone to appropriately weight your opinion, can you tell us your legal credentials? You do know this is a political discussion forum right? Or, wait a minute, are we really deciding the fate of people and policies with our posts?...cool. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Cite it. Ok.... No, we are not going to do your homework. Quote
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