Evening Star Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 What do we make of this (Tom Mulcair praising Thatcher's economic policies and arguing against government intervention in the economy in 2001)?: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/18/thomas-mulcair-margaret-thatcher-2001_n_8006990.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-defends-praise-for-margaret-thatcher-s-winds-of-liberty-and-liberalism-1.3196265 It's 30s out of context but I don't feel that Mulcair has really distanced himself or offered much context, based on the CBC article. I don't think he has some sort of hidden agenda but it does raise questions about how committed he is to social democratic values. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Wow very un-NDP comments. Who knows, this might even help Mulcair to bring in more right or moderate leaning voters. Things to remember: 1. This was 14 years ago, people can change their thinking, 2. He's a lawyer and a politician, not known to be the most honest bunch of people. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 He's not a proper New Democrat. He's a Gary Doer. That's why I'm not so certain he'd be a disaster. Quote
PIK Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Wow very un-NDP comments. Who knows, this might even help Mulcair to bring in more right or moderate leaning voters. Things to remember: 1. This was 14 years ago, people can change their thinking, 2. He's a lawyer and a politician, not known to be the most honest bunch of people. And he was almost a conservative. But the money was not good enough. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 I wonder if Mulcair also supports Thatcher's methods for dealing with collective bargaining? Or if Mulcair agrees with Thatcher's support of various third-world strongmen? Or if Mulcair supports Thatcher's methods of waging war against foes, in particular, the use of unrestricted submarine warfare? Clearly Mulcair is full of surprises..........I wonder why this video never surfaced during his leadership run? I would hazard a guess, it might have changed the outcome and how Social Democrats view him......... Quote
Evening Star Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 He's not a proper New Democrat. He's a Gary Doer. That's why I'm not so certain he'd be a disaster. Doer-style pragmatism is what I expected when I voted for him as leader. But, as Derek notes, Thatcher was not a moderate pragmatist. She is one of the most radical right-wing ideologues to govern a major Western democracy in contemporary times. It would be different if Mulcair had been praising Bill Clinton or Tony Blair (both of whom still make me uncomfortable tbh). Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 He's not a proper New Democrat. He's a Gary Doer. That's why I'm not so certain he'd be a disaster. You realize he's running the NDP right? Or do you feel a Prime Minister Tom Mulcair would abandon policies both voted on and passed by the NDP membership in their own policy conventions? If so, why? Thatcher never concerned herself with more social programs like national daycare, quite the opposite, she felt socialism was great on paper, until it run out of other people's money to fund it.......So what does Mulcair agree with Thatcher on, and what does he oppose? ---------- People have raised the question on Mulcair's views on Quebec.........if Mulcair is a disciple of Thatcher, no worry, he'll just use the Army and Special Forces to round up and imprison, or in some cases kill, any would be militant Quebec Nationalists......... Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 You realize he's running the NDP right? Manitoba has been under NDP rule for a very long time. I don't like Selinger at all, and will have a very difficult time come this spring election voting NDP, but I had no problem voting for a party led by Doer. If Mulcair is anything like that... As has been pointed out, the Conservative policy manual still says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you expect them to introduce a bill if re-elected? Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Doer-style pragmatism is what I expected when I voted for him as leader. But, as Derek notes, Thatcher was not a moderate pragmatist. I think his support for certain policies isn't indicative of broader support. Of course, I'm not him, so I wouldn't know. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Manitoba has been under NDP rule for a very long time. I don't like Selinger at all, and will have a very difficult time come this spring election voting NDP, but I had no problem voting for a party led by Doer. If Mulcair is anything like that... Who cares if Mulcair is like Doer? Mulcair has voiced support for Thatcher's economic policies, which are night and day compared with the NDP's own policies. As has been pointed out, the Conservative policy manual still says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you expect them to introduce a bill if re-elected? Not with Harper as leader........are you suggesting Mulcair's leadership reign over his own Party is the same as Harper? Would NDP MPs become Tom Mulcair's trained seals in a Mulcair Government? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Doer-style pragmatism is what I expected when I voted for him as leader. But, as Derek notes, Thatcher was not a moderate pragmatist. She is one of the most radical right-wing ideologues to govern a major Western democracy in contemporary times. It would be different if Mulcair had been praising Bill Clinton or Tony Blair (both of whom still make me uncomfortable tbh). I can't think of a similar right-wing leader, of the same extent as Thatcher, in any other Western Democracy since....well....Thatcher..........Her own Conservative party eventually gave her the boot. Quote
PIK Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Manitoba has been under NDP rule for a very long time. I don't like Selinger at all, and will have a very difficult time come this spring election voting NDP, but I had no problem voting for a party led by Doer. If Mulcair is anything like that... As has been pointed out, the Conservative policy manual still says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you expect them to introduce a bill if re-elected? Harper will not go there. Just like capital punishment, he said for certain heinous crimes, in a interview with mansbridge. But would not touch that while in office, and was attack by the opp and amnesty int and the media. One reason why he does not say much anymore. But then in a recent poll something like 18% of canadians trust the media. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Not with Harper as leader........are you suggesting Mulcair's leadership reign over his own Party is the same as Harper? Would NDP MPs become Tom Mulcair's trained seals in a Mulcair Government? So don't you think that an NDP government would have to temper their own policies? Why the double standard? Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Harper will not go there. And based on what we know of Mulcair, he won't either. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 So don't you think that an NDP government would have to temper their own policies? Why the double standard? What double standard? The NDP have avoided going into depth over their own policies, furthermore, removing the detailed list of past resolutions from their own website.......... Now answer the question, are you suggesting that Mulcair would govern over the NDP in the same fashion as Prime Minister Harper governs over the Tories? Also, that NDP Government policies, as selected by their party membership, would be adopted or discounted solely by Mulcair's selection? Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Now answer the question, are you suggesting that Mulcair would govern over the NDP in the same fashion as Prime Minister Harper governs over the Tories? You mean just like Chrretien and Trudeau and...probably. I supported Chretien, Martin, and Harper, so I'm not sure what you think you're on to. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 You mean just like Chrretien and Trudeau and...probably. I supported Chretien, Martin, and Harper, so I'm not sure what you think you're on to. To clarify, you feel a Prime Minister Mulcair would use the same level of control over his MPs, a fault Prime Minister Harper is accused of? Quote
Evening Star Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) To clarify, you feel a Prime Minister Mulcair would use the same level of control over his MPs, a fault Prime Minister Harper is accused of? The NDP hasn't really advocated for individual MPs to have greater autonomy. If anything, they would probably have less under a PR system. (This is one issue where I tend to disagree with them.) Edited August 20, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
Evening Star Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 I think his support for certain policies isn't indicative of broader support. Of course, I'm not him, so I wouldn't know. Yes, I agree. Derek is stretching by referencing Thatcher's support for Pinochet and her actions in the Falklands. And it's worth keeping in mind that the UK was far more socialistic pre-Thatcher than Canada has ever been and Mulcair was warning against Quebec going too far down that road. Still, her economic vision was decidedly right-wing. Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 To clarify, you feel a Prime Minister Mulcair would use the same level of control over his MPs, a fault Prime Minister Harper is accused of? I don't accuse him of it. I understand the control. it's necessary because the public is a bunch of uninformed idiots. Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Still, her economic vision was decidedly right-wing. Mulcair's isn't really all that left wing. He hasn't said anything about raising taxes for people, and is doing a switch - lower small business taxes for higher corporate ones. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 The NDP hasn't really advocated for individual MPs to have greater autonomy. If anything, they would probably have less under a PR system. (This is one issue where I tend to disagree with them.) Case in point the Green's Bruce Hyer.... Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 I don't accuse him of it. I understand the control. it's necessary because the public is a bunch of uninformed idiots. The public or his own Party? The question was in relation to stifling the party policies of the NDP. Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 The public or his own Party? The public. They can't handle the truth or opinions they don't like. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 The public. They can't handle the truth or opinions they don't like. So Mulcair will keep an iron grip on his party, decide policy himself, because the public can't handle the truth? Quote
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