ReeferMadness Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 And so...I vote to protect the one thing that matters - money. My money. Some people might be ashamed to admit to being selfish and greedy. They hide their selfishness behind it being "good for the economy" some other such claptrap. Not you, though - you own it. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I have no respect for the Liberals when they use the 'politics of fear and division' either but tbf the 'soldiers in the streets' ad is usually regarded as a huge failure, isn't it? Has Trudeau been talking about soldiers in the streets? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Evening Star Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Has Trudeau been talking about soldiers in the streets? No, it was an ad from the 06 campaign. I was responding to Hydraboss's reference. Quote
dirac Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 First time here. Hello! Does anyone have a link to the actual tpp or at least some part of it? Of particular interest is how this document will change intellectual property laws regarding pharmaceuticals. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 First time here. Hello! Does anyone have a link to the actual tpp or at least some part of it? Of particular interest is how this document will change intellectual property laws regarding pharmaceuticals. Yeah. Well, if you were a pharmaceutical executive, you would probably know exactly what it says because industry was invited to participate. Unlike labour, environmental groups or us ordinary peons. The text hasn't been released and nobody seems to know when it will be. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 No, it was an ad from the 06 campaign. I was responding to Hydraboss's reference. My point was that the Conservative supporters around here always seem to be referring to something Martin did or something Chretien did. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Evening Star Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 My point was that the Conservative supporters around here always seem to be referring to something Martin did or something Chretien did.Yeah, so often, that's the justification for whatever Harper does, even if it was a failure when the Liberals did it. Quote
waldo Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I have no respect for the Liberals when they use the 'politics of fear and division' either but tbf the 'soldiers in the streets' ad is usually regarded as a huge failure, isn't it? except that "ad" was never released as a TV ad... and only appeared on the Liberal web site for a short time... until Martin got wind of it and ordered it removed. The rest is nothing more than those attempting to leverage a mistake that has been over-played to no end. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 except that "ad" was never released as a TV ad... and only appeared on the Liberal web site for a short time... until Martin got wind of it and ordered it removed. The rest is nothing more than those attempting to leverage a mistake that has been over-played to no end. Not watching much TV, I didn't know that it was never released. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Some people might be ashamed to admit to being selfish and greedy. They hide their selfishness behind it being "good for the economy" some other such claptrap. Not you, though - you own it. Why would I not? If 70% of what these politicians promised was real...hell, 50%...then maybe I would vote based on them. But they lie. Each and every one of them. They always seem to find "a reason" why they are forced to recant. So why would I vote for someone who promises me the sky and delivers the ground I'm standing on? I don't believe in Tinkerbell anymore either. I could care less what someone thinks of me when I vote based on my own well being. I'm pretty sure that in the end, most people do. There's absolutely no chance I'll ever be moved to feel bad about my decision. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
angrypenguin Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Does anyone here think the NDP can save their hemorrhaging support? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 And for the record, I don't really vote for what is in MY best interest. I'm fine regardless of how things end up. I base my decision on how it will affect my kids. So, ya. Selfish. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 The NDP is toast this election. If they gain any support, it will be at the expense of the Liberals. Go Tom!! Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 And for the record, I don't really vote for what is in MY best interest. I'm fine regardless of how things end up. I base my decision on how it will affect my kids. So, ya. Selfish. My daughter's student loans as she seeks a medical degree is certainly on my mind. Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 The NDP is toast this election. If they gain any support, it will be at the expense of the Liberals. Go Tom!! Haven't we seen the Conservatives gain as well b/c of the NDP? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Yup. I have one headed to UofA to start the path to med school and another looking at a BBA. Anyone who says elections aren't about what's in your (and your family's) best interest is full of it. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Haven't we seen the Conservatives gain as well b/c of the NDP? For some reason, I doubt it. Although it's just a numbers gain, I find it hard to believe that an NDP supporter moved over to the Conservatives. Possibly an NDP went to the Liberals and a Liberal moved to the Conservatives at the same time. That's my theory anyway. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
angrypenguin Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 For some reason, I doubt it. Although it's just a numbers gain, I find it hard to believe that an NDP supporter moved over to the Conservatives. Possibly an NDP went to the Liberals and a Liberal moved to the Conservatives at the same time. That's my theory anyway. But the NDP were campaigning on fiscal responsibility. I'm not entirely sure I agree with you there. I can't see a Liberal voter jump onto the Conservative boat. That would seem crazy to me. Thoughts? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Evening Star Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Does anyone here think the NDP can save their hemorrhaging support? Can? Yes. Will? Dunno but not holding my breath. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 For some reason, I doubt it. Although it's just a numbers gain, I find it hard to believe that an NDP supporter moved over to the Conservatives. Possibly an NDP went to the Liberals and a Liberal moved to the Conservatives at the same time. That's my theory anyway. Perhaps part of the problem here is that we keep talking about "NDP supporters", "Liberal supporters" and "Conservative supporters". The larger share of voters don't have strict affiliations like that. They are not card carrying members of any party, and while they may have certain ideological leanings, in general they adhere to no particular political philosophy and most certainly have no particular loyalty to any party. Frankly, I think the boundaries between parties are more a concern for partisans a political hacks like ourselves than for Joe and Mary Voter. Look at Quebec. In one instant the NDP are dominant, in the next it's a split vote. They're not moving about based on some sort of ideological rationale, their doing it based on what they think is most likely going to be the best way to have influence in the next Parliament. The party bases are very small. I doubt even the hard core base of the Tories is much more than 25%, beyond that are people who will, seven times out of eight vote Tory. The same applies to the Liberals, and I think the firm NDP base is probably well below 20%, which puts them in the worst position. Quote
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 But the NDP were campaigning on fiscal responsibility. I'm not entirely sure I agree with you there. I can't see a Liberal voter jump onto the Conservative boat. I doubt that any "true" conservatives were buying into the NDP balanced budget bs. The money has to come from somewhere and that can only mean higher taxes. Did Tom promise not to raise those? Now a blue liberal might take a look at Justin's deficit promise and think "no damn way" and move to the CPC. I think we're talking about shifts by one degree here. NDP -> Liberal -> CPC, not NDP -> CPC. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Can? Yes. Will? Dunno but not holding my breath. I think they might be able to recover somewhat, but I don't think there's enough time for them to regain even second place. And if there is a legitimate ABH movement out there, then I think the NDP are genuinely screwed, because they've lost that crown to the Liberals. Quote
Hydraboss Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Perhaps part of the problem here is that we keep talking about "NDP supporters", "Liberal supporters" and "Conservative supporters". The larger share of voters don't have strict affiliations like that. They are not card carrying members of any party, and while they may have certain ideological leanings, in general they adhere to no particular political philosophy and most certainly have no particular loyalty to any party. Frankly, I think the boundaries between parties are more a concern for partisans a political hacks like ourselves than for Joe and Mary Voter. Agree 100% Look at Quebec. In one instant the NDP are dominant, in the next it's a split vote. They're not moving about based on some sort of ideological rationale, their doing it based on what they think is most likely going to be the best way to have influence in the next Parliament. They're voting for whatever is in their best interest. Exactly the same way I am. And Kwebek voters are a fickle bunch. The party bases are very small. I doubt even the hard core base of the Tories is much more than 25%, beyond that are people who will, seven times out of eight vote Tory. The same applies to the Liberals, and I think the firm NDP base is probably well below 20%, which puts them in the worst position. Agreed except I think the CPC base is much higher. We don't have any other place to go. The NDP and Liberal voters can change sides without REALLY changing sides on a whim. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Freddy Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah, who cares about science, social-services, the environment, our role in the global community... as long as you're not taxed on your bribe. As a parent, Don't you think my kids Are higher priority then, science, social-services, the environment and our role in a global community? Without kids Canada will not even exist in 40 years. Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 I doubt that any "true" conservatives were buying into the NDP balanced budget bs. The money has to come from somewhere and that can only mean higher taxes. Did Tom promise not to raise those? Now a blue liberal might take a look at Justin's deficit promise and think "no damn way" and move to the CPC. I think we're talking about shifts by one degree here. NDP -> Liberal -> CPC, not NDP -> CPC. The issue is that Trudeau didn't promise anything about limiting raising taxes tho. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
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