socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Genuine question here: Are you aware that you are completely making things up? That is, when you compare the things that I've written with things that you seem to intend as replies to what I've written, do you notice that you seem to be responding to some fictional third person who's written altogether different things? Is this a common thing with you, to respond to other voices you hear or read, and not to the things people have actually said? I invite you to examine the various bizarre statements you make above, directed at me, about various highly specific things you think I've said and done, and compare those things to the points I've actually made in this thread. If that comparison doesn't give you reason to think that your political ideologies have driven your judgement onto the rocks, I really don't know what would convince you. Justin taking $20,000 from the Canadian Mental Health Association thinking it was 'from the heart out'. I find that unsettling. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Kitchener2 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Justin taking $20,000 from the Canadian Mental Health Association thinking it was 'from the heart out'. I find that unsettling. See, this is yet another very good example. This looks like picking an obsession or talking point out of a long list of them, and plopping it down as if it were relevant to the conversation. It's like the other half of a conversation that's taking place in your head and not in the real world. Normally discussions proceed by each person's making a conversational contribution related in some manner to the one made by the person to whom they are purporting to respond. Most humans internalize these conversational norms effortlessly in early youth. So my question is whether you are aware of being unable to do this, and whether you've noticed that your political obsessions seem to have rendered you unable to sustain the linear thought necessary to carry on a rational exchange. Quote
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 See, this is yet another very good example. This looks like picking an obsession or talking point out of a long list of them, and plopping it down as if it were relevant to the conversation. It's like the other half of a conversation that's taking place in your head and not in the real world. Normally discussions proceed by each person's making a conversational contribution related in some manner to the one made by the person to whom they are purporting to respond. Most humans internalize these conversational norms effortlessly in early youth. So my question is whether you are aware of being unable to do this, and whether you've noticed that your political obsessions seem to have rendered you unable to sustain the linear thought necessary to carry on a rational exchange. You haven't made any rational points. I'm trying to get a discussion going. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Argus Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Since only you know what you could mean by "glitterati," this is entirely obscure; it seems to be something you're making true by your own personal defintions, rather than a matter of fact. Certainly it's no secret to even basically politically informed people that Harper grew up in a Toronto suburb and went to U of T. If being from Ontario but representing an Alberta riding makes him an Albertan, then King's being from Ontario but for many years representing a Saskatchewan riding makes him a Saskatchewanian. (He was profoundly attached to the prairies and was a great booster of their development.) Move your goalposts however you like; your initial claims are just unwarranted. Harper dropped out of UofT and went west. He is identified as a westerner by the glitterati. King most certainly was not. He was a central Canada insider. He went to Osgood, then Harvard, came back to Ontario to be a public servant, then ran for office and won, in Ontario. The Liberal party would never accept a leader from outside central Canada. They tolerate Atlantic Canadians, who they consider inferior bumpkins, but they've never respected nor liked western Canadians. The glitterati are the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor. Edited August 17, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Kitchener2 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Harper dropped out of UofT and went west. He is identified as a westerner by the glitterati. King most certainly was not. He was a central Canada insider. He went to Osgood, then Harvard, came back to Ontario to be a public servant, then ran for office and won, in Ontario. The Liberal party would never accept a leader from outside central Canada. They tolerate Atlantic Canadians, who they consider inferior bumpkins, but they've never respected nor liked western Canadians. The glitterati are the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor. "the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor" Huh. Well, in one sense it's pretty impressive that you are able to mindread this huge and wildly disjointed group. As if the "artistic elite," whatever you mean by that, has anything particular in common with the contemporary political elite in "the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor"! A painter who can make ends meet through gallery shows and, say, Joe Oliver? Or Pamela Wallin, who is from Wadena SK herself, and of course knows that Harper is an Etobicoke boy, U of T dropout, and that he's has had jobs chiefly based in Ottawa and Toronto for over two decades? She's part of the "media elite" and the "political elite," and so she must somehow ignore the widely-known facts and believe that Harper is an Albertan! Mysterious and wonderful, these pronouncements. But the Argument From I'm Making This Up, Because I Said So doesn't really impress me. As a Westerner living in Ontario, and as a farm kid leaving in a city, I am well aware of the ignorance and antipathies that run in many directions across this great country; but the idea that some group you've confabulated out of whole cloth dislikes Harper because of Alberta something something, rather than that people who dislike Harper, of whatever career, and in whatever geographical region of Canada, do so because of his long-standing behaviour or policies, is an extravagant hypothesis that is mysteriously without evidence. If "socialist" has such evidence, well, keeping it a closely guarded secret while spouting incoherence is a remarkable choice. Quote
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 "the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor" Huh. Well, in one sense it's pretty impressive that you are able to mindread this huge and wildly disjointed group. As if the "artistic elite," whatever you mean by that, has anything particular in common with the contemporary political elite in "the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor"! A painter who can make ends meet through gallery shows and, say, Joe Oliver? Or Pamela Wallin, who is from Wadena SK herself, and of course knows that Harper is an Etobicoke boy, U of T dropout, and that he's has had jobs chiefly based in Ottawa and Toronto for over two decades? She's part of the "media elite" and the "political elite," and so she must somehow ignore the widely-known facts and believe that Harper is an Albertan! Mysterious and wonderful, these pronouncements. But the Argument From I'm Making This Up, Because I Said So doesn't really impress me. As a Westerner living in Ontario, and as a farm kid leaving in a city, I am well aware of the ignorance and antipathies that run in many directions across this great country; but the idea that some group you've confabulated out of whole cloth dislikes Harper because of Alberta something something, rather than that people who dislike Harper, of whatever career, and in whatever geographical region of Canada, do so because of his long-standing behaviour or policies, is an extravagant hypothesis that is mysteriously without evidence. If "socialist" has such evidence, well, keeping it a closely guarded secret while spouting incoherence is a remarkable choice. You're new here, but let me tell you something: When one opinion writer or another finds it necessary to give us his or her unfounded opinions about Harper, it does not mean there is any proof for such unfounded opinions. And the fact that you simply repeat such unfounded opinions of Harper, does NOT make it true. It only means that you are repeating unfounded opinions. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Evening Star Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) "the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor" Huh. Well, in one sense it's pretty impressive that you are able to mindread this huge and wildly disjointed group. As if the "artistic elite," whatever you mean by that, has anything particular in common with the contemporary political elite in "the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor"! A painter who can make ends meet through gallery shows and, say, Joe Oliver? Or Pamela Wallin, who is from Wadena SK herself, and of course knows that Harper is an Etobicoke boy, U of T dropout, and that he's has had jobs chiefly based in Ottawa and Toronto for over two decades? She's part of the "media elite" and the "political elite," and so she must somehow ignore the widely-known facts and believe that Harper is an Albertan! Mysterious and wonderful, these pronouncements. Don't forget the academic elites! All those lecturers and researchers at U of T and York and Carleton and McGill who are also part of the cabal that identifies Harper as a Westerner! Edited August 17, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
Kitchener2 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) You're new here, but let me tell you something: When one opinion writer or another finds it necessary to give us his or her unfounded opinions about Harper, it does not mean there is any proof for such unfounded opinions. And the fact that you simply repeat such unfounded opinions of Harper, does NOT make it true. It only means that you are repeating unfounded opinions. Of course, those with the capacity to read English will note that the only things I said about Harper are that he is from Etobicoke, that he went to the U of T, that he represented Calgary as MP for many years, and that his work has been chiefly headquartered in Ottawa and Toronto for over two decades now. These are not matters of opinion but of basic biographical fact. Since you seem to think I've been opining about Harper, this looks -- yet again -- like half a conversation you're having with an imaginary voice in your head. I highly recommend you make a strong effort to reply only to actual things your actual interlocutors have actually said. That is how human conversation works. And I am not new here, as it turns out. This is a new account with a modified name, but I was posting here years ago. Edited August 17, 2015 by Kitchener2 Quote
PIK Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Mulcair and trudeau do not even understand our own economy that it is resource driven. And once their foreign policy comes out ,it is game over for both. And when people make the decision ,they will stay with the guy they know ,not someone with no plan but change of god knows what. I laugh at the front page of the Sunday star ,with the ONT couple complaining how harper has not helped them out. Let me guess, they are Wynne supporters. They made fools out of themselves, just like Wynne is doing. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
cybercoma Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Mulcair and trudeau do not even understand our own economy Nobody understands anything but Harper. Quote
PIK Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 One thing for sure harper can talk shop with any leader in the world, by himself. Justin will need a team of advisors with him at all times Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
waldo Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 One thing for sure harper can talk shop with any leader in the world, by himself. you mean like... when Stephen Harper locks himself in Brazilian minister’s bathroom until he gets his way ... like that? Quote
Argus Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) "the academic, media, artistic and political elites from the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor" Huh. Well, in one sense it's pretty impressive that you are able to mindread this huge and wildly disjointed group. As if the "artistic elite," whatever you mean by that, has anything particular in common with the contemporary political elite in "the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor"! Uhm, you do realize that the vast majority of them live off the taxpayer, right? Most books and movies, plays and music are subsidized by the government. They, the media and government elites have a closely intertwined, incestuous relationship But the Argument From I'm Making This Up, Because I Said So doesn't really impress me. Big shrug. The facts are undeniable. Liberals will not stand for a leader not from Central Canada. Period. You can't disprove it because they've never had one and never will. Right now the Liberals smell blood because the election of an NDP government in Alberta has given them hope they can cash in and get a few western seats, but their overwhelming attitude towards Western Canada since Trudeau Senior has been contempt and neglect. Edited August 17, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Don't forget the academic elites! All those lecturers and researchers at U of T and York and Carleton and McGill who are also part of the cabal that identifies Harper as a Westerner! I didn't say there was a 'cabal' or conspiracy of any sort. It's a broad based sentiment among people who mostly went to the same schools and move in the same circles and consider themselves the elites and opinion makers. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Evening Star Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I didn't say there was a 'cabal' or conspiracy of any sort. It's a broad based sentiment among people who mostly went to the same schools and move in the same circles and consider themselves the elites and opinion makers. Well, a small elite clique of opinion-makers doesn't sound that different from a cabal. You haven't provided much evidence that 'artistic elites' (which means who? Polaris prize judges? Painters whose work gets exhibited in galleries? Creative writing teachers?) are deeply connected with media and political elites and academic elites (counterpoint instructors? Chemical engineers? Environmental scientists? Early chidhood education specialists?). I would have to assume that, after 9 years of Tory rule, the political elites are largely Conservative by this point. How do we explain the overwhelming support for the CPC among newspapers in the last election? Edited August 17, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Nobody understands anything but Harper. Justin had no choice. All was decided for him. The timing, the taking of the money, everything was set in stone. Poor Justin could not help himself but to take that $20,000 from the Canadian Mental Health Association. Poor, poor Justin, stuffing that money into his own private pockets instead of leaving it to help out the real mentally ill. But Justin thinks things should be done 'from the heart outwards'. Yup, from the heart outwards. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Icebound Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Poor Justin could not help himself but to take that $20,000 from the Canadian Mental Health Association. Poor, poor Justin, stuffing that money into his own private pockets instead of leaving it to help out the real mentally ill. I love these sound bites. Now let's see,..... He gave a bunch of speeches to 17 organizations that wanted a high-profile draw for their particular money-raising efforts. Questions of appropriateness were raised, so he released the financial details of all the speeches and offered to return the fees (even though contracted) to everybody. Only 4 out of 17 even "considered" accepting. Not sure how many of those 4, if any, actually did. While on the subject of speeches, maybe you could describe Oliver's illegal after-the-fact sole-source contracting for speech-writing services. In fact, I don't think that the actual speech was ever produced, so it was $9200 taxpayers money for absolutely NOTHING. ... Quote
PIK Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 you mean like... when Stephen Harper locks himself in Brazilian minister’s bathroom until he gets his way ... like that? http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/170383/washington-post-editors-note-says-post-was-a-significant-ethical-lapse/ It seems she has had problems before with her blogging. Actually you just embarrassed yourself by using her material. So the question is ''How low can you go'' Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
waldo Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/170383/washington-post-editors-note-says-post-was-a-significant-ethical-lapse/ It seems she has had problems before with her blogging. Actually you just embarrassed yourself by using her material. So the question is ''How low can you go'' oh snap! PIK... you got me! Oh wait... oh no you didn't: that's not the only place the event is written up; in any case, that was simply a report as presented within the Brazilian newspaper 'FLOHA DE S.PAULO'... as confirmed by attending diplomats! Here's the original Portuguese source... let me know if you need an English translation ability: so... as you say PIK... the question is, "How low can you go"? Quote
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Well, a small elite clique of opinion-makers doesn't sound that different from a cabal. You haven't provided much evidence that 'artistic elites' (which means who? Polaris prize judges? Painters whose work gets exhibited in galleries? Creative writing teachers?) are deeply connected with media and political elites and academic elites (counterpoint instructors? Chemical engineers? Environmental scientists? Early chidhood education specialists?). I would have to assume that, after 9 years of Tory rule, the political elites are largely Conservative by this point. How do we explain the overwhelming support for the CPC among newspapers in the last election? Tony Burman worked at the left-wing CBC for years. The left-wing CBC must be de-funded. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 One wonders just how many heads Burman thinks that Harper, Abbot & Cameron have cut off? This drivel is over the top, even for the Star, and well into tinfoil hat moon-bat territory. Just another reason why I never read the Star, the poorest excuse for a newspaper in all of Canada. And he claims to be a "teacher" of journalism. What a laugh. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
scribblet Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 One thing for sure harper can talk shop with any leader in the world, by himself. Justin will need a team of advisors with him at all times Exactly, I can't imagine Trudeau or Mulcair receiving this (from 2012) http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/stephen-harper-to-receive-world-statesman-award-from-appeal-of-conscience-foundation Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
waldo Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Exactly, I can't imagine Trudeau or Mulcair receiving this (from 2012) http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/stephen-harper-to-receive-world-statesman-award-from-appeal-of-conscience-foundation hey now... didn't that award used to be formally called the "Appeal of Conscience World Statesman Award"... why did that "interfaith partnership of corporate and spiritual leaders"... shorten the title of their award? Other than his steadfast (shameless) alignment with all that is Israel... just what did Harper get the "award" for? Quote
PIK Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Really it will be interesting if JT is PM and how embarrassing it is going to be. And him being the drama queen , it will be twice as embarrassing. The world will be laughing at us if either of the 2 lefties get elected. Or they will be happy that the great Canada will be brought to her knees by these 2, and get to suffer like the rest of them .lol Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
waldo Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Really it will be interesting if JT is PM and how embarrassing it is going to be. And him being the drama queen , it will be twice as embarrassing. The world will be laughing at us if either of the 2 lefties get elected. Or they will be happy that the great Canada will be brought to her knees by these 2, and get to suffer like the rest of them .lol hey PIK... how did Harper get "so ready"... from Day 1! Didn't they know, that being PM is not an entry level job? Quote
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