Dutch Consider Forced Use Of Dutch in Religious

[maplesyrup]

Canada bends over backwards to accommodate the cultural backgrounds of immigrants, but should we insist that religious services be conducted in one of Canada's two official languages?

The reason the Netherlands are exploring this issue is that apparently religious zealots are preaching violence in a foreign language in the religious institutions in Holland.

Netherlands Grapples with Violence, Religious Tensions

[maplesyrup]

Police end 15-hour standoff with suspected radicals in The Hague

Link to religious nuts? We'll see!

Is Canada going to sit idly by and wait for something similar to happen here, or are we going to be pro-active and just a bit wise, by learning from Holland's unfortunate circumstances?

[maplesyrup]

For Dutch, anger battles with tolerance

This should prove to be a real eye-opener for Canada.

[August1991]

Maple Syrup, the Dutch caused this problem themselves.

Holland is part of the "Coalition of the Willing" and have 1100 troops in Iraq. That is why they have been targetted by these radicals.

I think the Dutch should withdraw their troops and then the radical Islamists will leave them alone.

Canadians have nothing to fear. We have made it very plain that we disagree with Bush and we did not send any troops to the Middle East. The radical Islamists will leave us alone.

----

Canadians are now wearing poppies but in the future, we won't have to do this. Canadians are now safe from being killed.

For example, have you noticed that no Canadian has been beheaded in Iraq? These problems only happen to other countries who are allied with Bush.

[maplesyrup]

Regardless, perhaps it is taxing our police forces too much to have to worry about religious services in foreign languages that they do not understand.

If people move to Canada, we have two official languages they are welcome to use for public events such as a religious service, schools, etc.

No one should be learning another language in Canada until they have mastered English & French.

We are very tolerant yes, but sometimes we go too far. and religious institutions with their voodoo beliefs, need to be kept on a very short leash.

I just heard someone comment on the CBC that God wanted that woman with the 7-8 children in Welland, Ontario, to die. Give me a friggin' break.

[August1991]

We are very tolerant yes, but sometimes we go too far. and religious institutions with their voodoo beliefs, need to be kept on a very short leash.

These attacks in Holland were not caused by voodoo, Maple Syrup. Holland is a member of the "Coalition of the Willing". That's the reason.

[maplesyrup]

We are very tolerant yes, but sometimes we go too far. and religious institutions with their voodoo beliefs, need to be kept on a very short leash.

These attacks in Holland were not caused by voodoo, Maple Syrup. Holland is a member of the "Coalition of the Willing". That's the reason.

August you are wrong. Read up on the reasons for the tensions in Holland. They have religious nuts preaching violence in a foreign language, and there were some Dutch people, a relative of van Goth amongst them, who antagonised the Muslims. It had nothing to do with "The US Allies in Iraq".

We need to keep a close watch on voodoo in Canada no matter what religion it is called.

[caesar]

And they have religious nuts in the USA speaking English. We are a multinational country. We should not take away the rights of anyone anywhere including their religion to forbid them to speak their mother tongue. Sounds like something coming from the Patriot Act.

Avoid problems by checking who we are allowing to immigrate to Canada.

[kimmy]

Canadians are now wearing poppies but in the future, we won't have to do this. Canadians are now safe from being killed.

Good effort, August, but probably a wasted effort. I doubt the people you're making fun of will even sense the sarcasm.

-kimmy

[caesar]

No one should be learning another language in Canada until they have mastered English & French.

Why not. We only need to know one language here in BC; after that we are and must be free to learn any darn language that we want. We are still "free people" are we not. Why should we not chose to learn a second language that we may use for employment or to enable us to converse with relatives in the home country. You are starting to want to use controls just like Bush is doing. Let's keep Canadians free to make our own choices as long as we are not hurting anyone else. People who want to commit act of terrorism can probably communicate in English quite well.

[maplesyrup]

Don't you think we have had enough problems with the friction between Quebec and the rest of Canada? Canada/Quebec has had its moments of violence. Certainly not knowing the other's language can exacerbate these problems especially when gotten hold of by demagogues.

[playfullfellow]

well if you were going to ban any foreign languages in churches, then should you not ban any foreign langauages in places like, say, the Italian/Canadian clubs, Yugoslav/Canadian clubs, heck might as well add Huterite colonie to the list, they are a religious sect too.

My family and I came to Canada for it's freedoms and opportunities. Banning the usage of a persons home language in a place like their church smacks way too much of Big Brother. The Soviets tried it, the Chinese are trying it without much success. How do you think we can accomplish it here.

Maybe it is time to have just one official language, then we can settle this problem with Quebec at the same time too.

[maplesyrup]

People need to learn the language of the country they move to, to help prevent them from being ghettoized or isolated.

I know if I were hanging around with a bunch of Quebeckers in BC and they started talking about bombing a building in downtown Vancouver, there would probably be a lot more chance of my reporting it to the authorities if I spoke English as well as French.

[caesar]

Don't you think we have had enough problems with the friction between Quebec and the rest of Canada? Canada/Quebec has had its moments of violence. Certainly not knowing the other's language can exacerbate these problems especially when gotten hold of by demagogues.

Nope; the more you do for them and give them; the more they want. If I lived in eastern Canada perhaps I would re learn French. I did learn French but have forgotten most of it due to no where to use it. Quebec likes to be treated special and do its own thing all the time. This is one they can have; we do not need to learn a language that we will never use just to TRY to make them happy.

But this is about restricting people from speaking a language; probably their first language; because they MIGHT discuss something violent in church???? whhat is the world coming too. To even consider such actions is completely distasteful and unnecessary. Next you will not want us wearing costumes from our homelands. Oh by the way; I was born in Canada. My mother's family would be amongst the first settlers here (Irish) my father came from Scotland and spoke English ( with a bit of a brogue to be sure but proper English) I would love to hear everyone speaking MY language but I certainly do not believe that one should be restricted from speaking or learning one's first language or any relatives first language

[maplesyrup]

You might change your tune if you were living in Holland, and you may change your tune if violence erupts in Canada. I'm just talking about taking some preventative medicine.

[August1991]

MapleSyrup and Caesar, I am sorry. Playfullfellow, I am sorry too.

Your foolishness is one thing but this issue is too serious to me.

MapleSyrup and Caesar, I have been to France (and Italy) to see what Brian Mulroney claimed as our Canadian right to be at the G-7 table.

MapleSyrup, Caesar and Playfull, have you done what I did? Have you seen?

[maplesyrup]

Madness in Holland

I think everyone posting here should read this.

/85

[August1991]

What's your point, MS?

Is this new to you? Do you understand what freedom means? Do you understand why Winston Churchill defended it?

[maplesyrup]

Did it ever occur to you that your heroes might not be my heroes?

[caesar]

MapleSyrup and Caesar, I am sorry. Playfullfellow, I am sorry too.

Your foolishness is one thing but this issue is too serious to me.

MapleSyrup and Caesar, I have been to France (and Italy) to see what Brian Mulroney claimed as our Canadian right to be at the G-7 table.

MapleSyrup, Caesar and Playfull, have you done what I did? Have you seen?

What is the world are you talking about????

Maple and I are not even on the same side in this issue.

Wghat difference does it make that you have travelled to France and Italy. Who gives a darn about anything B Mulroney claimed.??????????

[playfullfellow]

August, if you are talking about seeing what happened during WW 2, yes I have seen the camps. I have seen the graves, I have seen the buildings and I have seen the bullet holes that still remain. I grew up seeing the haunted look in peoples eyes who actually witnessed what happened. The difference was that I was not a tourist, this was part of our growing up. This was part of my heritage or legacy or whatever you want to call it. This was also part of why we chose Canada as our new home. This is also why I speak out against the big brother syndrome. So, no need to feel sorry for me, I may be a sarcastic SOB but I have seen things that the average Canuck my age hasn't even read about in the history books. I love the freedom we have in this country and I love the fact that Canadians of the past have fought long and hard for the freedoms we now enjoy. I am proud to be a Canadian.

[kimmy]

Madness in Holland

I think everyone posting here should read this.

/85

Roger that, syrup! I've read it and am ready to discuss.

This syndrome -- fear of a few violent extremists being transferred to the 1 million Muslims in Holland who are overwhelmingly peaceful -- has a sorrowful history. It marks the recurrence of a fascistic will to play upon the insecurities of a people reputed to be among the most liberal and tolerant in Europe.

One thing I wonder as I read this is that if Holland is, indeed, one of the most liberal societies in Europe, then why would curtailing immigration from Turkey and Morrocco be such a bad thing? It sounds like Holland might not be a good place for conservative Muslims. It sounds like their beliefs will be at odds with the society.

Another thing that occurs to me is that those 1 million overwhelmingly peaceful Muslims in Holland have to take a little ownership of the situation.

Of course, the Muslims always denounce things like the Van Gogh murder AFTER the fact. Nice effort, gang, but too late to be any good. Moderate and peaceful Muslims will need to be more pro-active in denouncing the extremists in their community. We continually hear the positive P.R. work, the informational outreach booths on university campuses and so-on, all informing us that Islam is the religion of peace, we have only tolerance and love, Islam denounces violence and hate, etc. If Islam denounces violence and hate, shouldn't they be a little busier with the denouncing? But they don't denounce it. They deny its existance within their community. The only hate they seem interested in denouncing is hate directed towards them. For example, take the Dar al-Madinah mosque in Vancouver which came to light after Vancouverite Rudwan Khalil mysteriously turned up in Chechnya fighting Russian security forces. After all the negative press about the hateful anti-Jewish sermons, we get denial and disassociation from mainstream Muslims. "Whoa whoa, wait, he's crazy, he doesn't speak for us." That might be true, but wouldn't it be a little more convincing and reassuring if it didn't take until after a flurry of negative publicity to have this denouncement take place? Surely somebody in Vancouver's mainstream Muslim community was aware of Sheik Kathrada and knew what kind of venom he was spewing... if they were more active in policing their own, it would make their talk of rejecting hate as a principle of Islam seem like more than empty words.

-kimmy

[The Terrible Sweal]

Moderate and peaceful Muslims will need to be more pro-active in denouncing the extremists in their community.

There's a problem with that point of view. You are purporting to place a positive obligation to do something on people who have done no wrong.

You're not a child abuser are you? No? Well, then why aren't you out campaiging against child abuse?

You're not a con-artist are you? No? How odd that you haven't built a website against grifters, then.

[maplesyrup]

I am not condoning the murder of the dutch van Goth, but unfortunately he brought it on himself with his disgusting descriptions of Muslim behaviour.

Perhaps this conversation should be continued in the international area.

[The Terrible Sweal]

He brought murder on himself by exercising free speech?

So, witnesses who testify against organized crime are bringing it on themselves too, I suppose?

And homosexuals who march in gay pride parades are bringing gay-bashing on themselves?

MS, I think you need to do a consistency check on your views here.