Does the Sandra Bland story outrage you?

WIP · August 6, 2015

BTW in case that All Lives Matter red herring shows up again, I'd like them to answer :

A Cop Killed A White Teen And The #AllLivesMatter Crowd Said Nothing

As in those previous incidents, Hammond's family is left with painful questions: Was the car headed directly at the officer, or, as Hammond's father has suggested, did the officer shoot because his son was beginning to flee? Was the officer truly in danger? Or does the fact that he was so close to the vehicle when he fired indicate otherwise? Will the dashcam video, reportedly turned over to state investigators and requested by local news outlets, offer any answers?

OK #alllivesmatter, why aren't you covering this one? So far, it's only #blacklivesmatter activists who are talking about the case.

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

It doesn't have to be something of that nature at all. He can ask her to step out of the car for whatever reason he wants. If she refuses, he can use force. That's exactly what happened here, like it or not. Was the force excessive? Absolutely. And that's the real issue here. Arguing that the cop didn't have a right to detain her or demand that she exit her vehicle is wrong and takes away from the actual issue.

The SCOTUS disagrees with that and said so in Rodriguez v United States.To put ti briefly, in a similar case (speeding) a K9 cop, after issuing a speeding ticket, extended the detention so he could run his dog around the car, and the dog did react and methamphetamine was found and further charge laid. The charges were thrown out on appeal because the cop had no authority to extend the stop beyond delivering the ticket.

blueblood · August 6, 2015

That is true. But where is the "bag of weed" in this case? There is't one, or anything else that would cause him to need to extend the duration of the stop. Without it something of that nature, (or it could also have been some problem with her docs etc.) he has to ticket her and let her go.

Her possibly driving under the influence... Had she not had a hissy fit and lit up the cigarette and listened, she would be on her way.

blueblood · August 6, 2015

The SCOTUS disagrees with that and said so in Rodriguez v United States.To put ti briefly, in a similar case (speeding) a K9 cop, after issuing a speeding ticket, extended the detention so he could run his dog around the car, and the dog did react and methamphetamine was found and further charge laid. The charges were thrown out on appeal because the cop had no authority to extend the stop beyond delivering the ticket.

That depends on how the stop goes. That cop made a mistake and the judge rapped his knuckles.

cybercoma · August 6, 2015

The SCOTUS disagrees with that and said so in Rodriguez v United States.To put ti briefly, in a similar case (speeding) a K9 cop, after issuing a speeding ticket, extended the detention so he could run his dog around the car, and the dog did react and methamphetamine was found and further charge laid. The charges were thrown out on appeal because the cop had no authority to extend the stop beyond delivering the ticket.

No. The charges were thrown out because it was an illegal search. That's not what I'm talking about here. We're talking about detention.

cybercoma · August 6, 2015

Had she not had a hissy fit and lit up the cigarette and listened, she would be on her way.

You have no way of knowing that as there's a long history of cops attacking people who do listen, especially black people.

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

Her possibly driving under the influence... Had she not had a hissy fit and lit up the cigarette and listened, she would be on her way.

No mention of being under the influence at the scene, only after a toxicology report after her death. Pretty much useless as evidence against her case.

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

No. The charges were thrown out because it was an illegal search. That's not what I'm talking about here. We're talking about detention.

The extension to the detention was ruled as being illegal, that made the search illegal.

blueblood · August 6, 2015

You have no way of knowing that as there's a long history of cops attacking people who do listen, especially black people.

I wouldnt go that far. Why risk throwing a career in the toilet and getting sued?

blueblood · August 6, 2015

No mention of being under the influence at the scene, only after a toxicology report after her death. Pretty much useless as evidence against her case.

Lol, thats what the officer may have been trying to figure out. Kind of hard when she lights up a drag!

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

Lol, thats what the officer may have been trying to figure out. Kind of hard when she lights up a drag!

Lighting up a cigarette does not count as "under the influence"

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

I wouldnt go that far. Why risk throwing a career in the toilet and getting sued?

This cop is on administrative duty and is being sued.

blueblood · August 6, 2015

Lighting up a cigarette does not count as "under the influence"

It can mask symptoms of being under the influence.

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

It can mask symptoms of being under the influence.

The point being is there is no discussion of her being under the influence of anything at the arrest. Whether she was or not we will never know for sure.

blueblood · August 6, 2015

The point being is there is no discussion of her being under the influence of anything at the arrest. Whether she was or not we will never know for sure.

That might have been what the officer was trying to find out until she decided to be difficult

On Guard for Thee · August 6, 2015

That might have been what the officer was trying to find out until she decided to be difficult

I guess if he had doubts he should have had her tested at her intake.

Hal 9000 · August 6, 2015

His investigation must be to complete the process which caused the stop in the first place, i.e. the lane change. When you are stopped you are told why. He has to further tell you why he is continuing to detain you if he has some further suspicion that some other crime may have been, or is being committed. I don't see or hear any of that happening in the video.

No, in fact most drunk drivers are arrested after being pulled over for 1) no headlights and 2) not signalling.

Her behaviour and agitated state makes it reasonable that she could've been under the influence.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hal 9000

cybercoma · August 6, 2015

I wouldnt go that far. Why risk throwing a career in the toilet and getting sued?

It's stupid, isn't it? But then that's exactly what keeps happening.

cybercoma · August 6, 2015

Lighting up a cigarette does not count as "under the influence"

No, but if the officer is trying to see if he can smell alcohol on her breath and she's blowing smoke in his face, it makes it awfully difficult to conduct his investigation.

Argus · August 6, 2015

And whites are less likely to be targeted specifically by police.

Yeah, how about that? You don't see a correlation there? And it's not that Blacks get targeted by racist cops is the reason why they're arrested. FBI statistics include the race that the victims report as having victimized them. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of street crime. Period. There are a lot of sociological reasons behind that, but it's what cops have to deal with, in the US and in Canada, and in the UK.

I got my taste of profiling about 15 years ago, when I was still doing the long drive to and from work, and for several weeks or months, the usual road I used to get to the QEW and out of town was under construction. Unfortunately, the next best alternative meant driving my rusty old sports sedan through a notorious red light district where the hookers and drug dealers do business at 3 in the morning.

How is that profiling? You're in a red light district at 3AM. What makes you think I wouldn't be stopped in my Hyundai? You know the last time I was stopped by police? When I exited the club where I worked at about 2-3Am through the alley door into an otherwise empty downtown Ottawa. The cop just asked me what I was doing there, I explained, and he sent me on my way. Cops are paid to check stuff out, okay.

At no point are you allowed to ask questions...or if you do...they just ignore you and bark orders.

Yeah, well, I've already stated I believe police training should be revised. They need to stop acting like tin gods, stop being afraid, and learn to deal with people in a friendlier, less officious way. But this is what they're taught now, this 'command voice' crap, and 'take charge of the situation' and all. I think it pisses people off and tends to cause more trouble than it's worth. The cop who stopped me that time was easy going, but another cop who yelled at me once when I was trying to drive my bike onto the street off a side street ahead of a parade made me want to tell him to go F himself, arrogant, loudmouthed sob... So yeah, I can see how this attitude, especially when experienced repeatedly, could get people's hackles up. But none of that is related to race except that certain minorities interact the police more because of the criminal involvement of those groups.

Argus · August 7, 2015

Lighting up a cigarette does not count as "under the influence"

The cigarette is a red herring. He didn't like her attitude. Maybe it made him suspicious that she was hiding something. So he likely asked her to put out the cigarette preparatory to asking her to get out of the car. All of which he was perfectly entitled to do.

Argus · August 7, 2015

This cop is on administrative duty and is being sued.

Yes, but it wasn't his asking her to exit the car which put him on administrative duty. It was violating procedure with regard to how he treated people, as I understand it. He escalated too much too fast and was too verbally aggressive.

On Guard for Thee · August 7, 2015

No, in fact most drunk drivers are arrested after being pulled over for 1) no headlights and 2) not signalling.

Her behaviour and agitated state makes it reasonable that she could've been under the influence.

Could have been means zippidy doo dah. But keep trying.

On Guard for Thee · August 7, 2015

No, but if the officer is trying to see if he can smell alcohol on her breath and she's blowing smoke in his face, it makes it awfully difficult to conduct his investigation.

He has already been at her window with his head inside collecting her docs. How did he not catch the smell of alcohol then? Unless you think she was dumb enough to take a swig of whiskey while he was checking the paperwork.

blueblood · August 7, 2015

It's stupid, isn't it? But then that's exactly what keeps happening.

Unfortunately yes. What worries me is witch hunts taking place when sometimes force is necessary. If it gets to the point that they cant do their jobs then society is in trouble.