Surprise! UN accuses Israel and Hamas of possible war crimes

[cybercoma]

CC, I'm surprised with your take here. You seemed quite supportive of Israel during the Gaza bombing.

Israel has a right to defend itself. I still say that. How they choose to defend themselves is the problem and it doesn't negate the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization intentionally targeting civilians. Israel has an obligation to its people to root out those who are firing rockets on their population. Doing that by laying waste to entire neighbourhoods is completely unconscionable though. They need to do better.

[cybercoma]

CC was trying out an experiment. He started to act like others do on this board to see what kind of feedback he would get. At least that is what I understand about his 'change' in posting styles and what he posts.

This is true too, but I'm not sure if that coincides with this.

[GostHacked]

Israel has a right to defend itself. I still say that. How they choose to defend themselves is the problem and it doesn't negate the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization intentionally targeting civilians. Israel has an obligation to its people to root out those who are firing rockets on their population. Doing that by laying waste to entire neighbourhoods is completely unconscionable though. They need to do better.

Hard to disagree with you here.

[Rue]

Cyber;

1-you engage in a tactic of stating you can't understand my responses and then stating you disagree with them-which one is it Cyber-lol;

2-you again try draw me into a false accusation I called you an idiot, I did not-this tactic of trying to portray yourself as a victim is as I said pointless and tiresome;

3-you asked me and I have responded as to the difference between a political terrorist scenario and civilian one-then you claimed you did not understand the response but then demonstrated in fact you did and in fact disagree with it when you stated why would it make a difference that Hamas does not negotiate;

4-you depict Hamas as scum posing that simplistic name calling as my basis for treating Hamas different than other hostage takers, i.e., ones police face;

5-you repeatedly make accusations Israel deliberately kills Palestinians but won't provide proof;

6-you refuse to acknowledge the very report you rely on, and the fact it established only .006 of the air strikes the IDF engaged in of 6,000 were suspect defeating the very premises of your allegation and showing with statistics the overwhelming no. of strikes were not questioned by the UN report-the very one you jumped on;

7-you claim my opinions are "wrong".

In regards to 7,opinions are neither wrong nor right. They are opinions.I never claimed my opinions are right or wrong. You do. You use that classification for your opinions. Therein lies a he difference between us. You classify opinions you disagree with as "wrong". I do not. That is you tactic and it reflects on you and why you constantly try engage me in questions that assume a simple yes or no answer and for that matter the answer you want to hear.

Take for example you question; " What responsibility does Israel have for the deaths of innocent Palestinians?" The question not only provides the assumption Israelis areresponsible for the deaths of innocent Palestinians and certainly your accusations in all your responses do-yet you have not provided one ounce of proof for these allegations. You do bluff. You bull shit your way through with references such as;"several observer organizations have made note of Israel's indiscriminate attacks"...

Which ones Cyber? You really think you can throw out such references without identifying the and actually providing what they stated? Really you think that establishes your credibility?Lol. Here you are on a post relying on a UN report, and you can't even use that report, you have to deflect and try switch to some other report you can't even provide the name of?

Lol. Well? Why aren't you relying on that UN report, you know the smoking gun HJ and Marcus and you are supposedly quoting-you know the one that says that .006% of 6,000 Israeli are strikes were supposedly suspect. Well?

Oh but wait you tell me to screw myself because I said you don't grasp what I write and then in the next breath say you "gloss over" what I write and then restate it in ridiculously simplistic terms I have never used?Lol. Right. I get it. You don't understand what I write but you do and can restate it oh so simply. Which one is it then Cyber?

Now you want me to summarize sure I can see if you can follow:

1-when a person takes hostage in a civilian matter, in most situations the police can send a hostage negotiator- as long as he can establish and continue negotiations, it's called a window of alternative opportunity-the theory is to engage in the hostage taker in language that establishes trust, i.e., using first names-then the hostage negotiator is trained to restate what is being said into references as to what can be done, not what can not be done, to discuss the future not the past and to take out emotions from words in the restatement-the timing of response, non verbal language, is also key;

2-if it becomes apparent there is no other alternative a fatal shot is ordered and the hostage negotiator's job is to create a clear shot if possible-it can become a situation where the decision certain civilians will die is also taken because there is no other choice;.

You gloss over such explanations. I get it. In your world no civilian should ever die and so no response is ever justified. That is your position not mine. I see no black and white all the time in hostage scenarios, you do. To you thinks are right or wrong-to metheyare a bit of both and you "gloss" over such an answer.

In a situation with Hamas, the decision made to place civilians in harm's way unlike the civilian hostage taker is made under a totally different set of pretenses.

The decision to engage mosques, schools, UN buildings, homes, hospitals as sites to shoot is not negotiable-it is not done spur of the moment or because a robbery went wrong or because someone is delusional-its done based on cold, pre-calculated thoughts that determine how many civilians will die when shooting from a site full of them-the decision to kill those civilians is made by Hamas not the IDF-those civilians are dead the moment Hamas uses them as shields-there is no negotiation with Hamas to remove the civilians in fact Hamas orders the civilians at gun point back into their homes in direct line of fire.

Of course you make ridiculous statements stating the fact there is no negotiations does not make a difference. You don't want to get it. You think Haas asks its civilians to die? When they try get out of the way Hamas shoots them dead and where are you and BIg Guy? Well you are in your comfy homes assuming you get it.

You don't. If you did you would not ask about negotiations. If there is negotiation there is a chance of life-there is a chance of an alternative to violence. Hamas does not and will never negotiate. Its religion teaches it negotiating and using non violent means is weakness and morally corrupt.It kills its people as a legitimate religious act as part of a religious war.

That is not some simplistic idiot name calling they are scum.It is fact. It creates a psychiatric profile of a Hamas terrorist-they don't negotiate, they are already dead-they have already decided they will die and its why the closest analogy is to a suicidal or delusioned hostage taker in a civilian situation. In both cases there is no negotiation and yes hard as is for you to believe civilians die because in civilian situations the decision to move in on the hostage taker can go wrong or in fact is designed knowing some will die, but there is no other choice if any are to survive.

You "gloss" over that because you deliberately have decided to close your mind to any opinion but yours.

It's also tell tale in the questions you ask. You come on this board and would be the first to say,don't blame innocent Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. That is the entire premises in your moral outrage and yet when you pose your question to me about IDF tactics you pose it to blame all Israelis for their decisions-go on read back your simple question-" what responsibility does ISRAEL have..."

Have you come on this board and acknowleged the decision to place Palestinians in death's arms was set by Hamas? Well? Never.

Israelis did not make that decision and neither did the IDF. The IDF has a moral imperative to defend the lives of Israelis. What an absurd presumption you make that the IDF not Hamas is responsible for Palestnian civilian deaths.At best the IDF can react and the fact that onluy .006 of its 6,000 air strikes were problematic speaks for itself and you can't respond to that statistic-you have no clue how to, so you throw out some bullshit reference to "other"observers.Horeshit. The only people on the ground were Palestinians and Israelis. There were no observers walking around observing. I call bullshit to you on that because it is.

Any observation was not made first hand. It came second hand and you have no clue of who it came from and what they said and why necessarily it is uncorroborated and heresay.

Its over Cyber. Your agenda was to come on this board and piss on Israel using a report you never read and can't address let alone acknowledge.

You try tell me what I stated after telling me you did not understand it or glossed over it. Lol. Right.

You have made it clear Cyber you see one thing and one thing only.

You ask me to engage in simplistic idiotic rhetoric. No.

Your question by the way was answered long ago. I stated to you one death on either side is a moral failure and you are so blinded by your rhetoric and opinions you "glossed over" it.

I have stated so any ties when a Palestinian civilian dies, its a failure on both sides. You simply want to blame Israelis and talk of their responsibilities and I have called you out on it.

Run along Cyber this piss on Israel pretext has fizzled. You pissed on anti Israeli hatred and it hasn't fueled it-just extinguished it.

As for Big Guy and his commending your patience, yah Big Guy-I am patient, I am still waiting the names of the "Jewish"friends of yours horrified by my opinions.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Rue

[cybercoma]

I am not reading all of that crap. I posed a simple question and the first few paragraphs didn't bother to address it. Get back to me when you get your thoughts straight and have a clear and concise response to what I'm asking.

Edit: I noticed as I scrolled past that you said something that I have an agenda to "piss on Israel using a report.... blah blah blah," I stopped there. I have no idea what report you're talking about, as I never referenced any reports, and my posts above clearly show that I'm not "pissing on Israel." I support Israel's right to defend itself. My question is about their methods and the injudicious and indiscriminate way they carry out attacks on residential neighbourhoods. You get no argument from me over Hamas being a terrorist organization and that they need to be destroyed, since they're hell bent on targeting civilians with rocket attacks. So when you're ready to explain why you hold Hamas accountable for civilian attacks, as you should, why you don't hold Israel accountable for their completely inappropriate tactics that don't attempt to protect the lives of civilians and non-combatants (as the Geneva Convention would call them)?

Edited June 30, 2015 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Screw it. You know what. I give up. Apparently reading comprehension isn't quite your thing. I'm sorry I ever responded to you.

[Big Guy]

Sometimes quantity can try to bury quality - if you allow it to happen. It is similar to trying to shout down or outtalk another person in face to face discussion. Facts can be easily communicated through brevity and focus.

"If I had more time I would have written a shorter letter"

Edited June 30, 2015 by Big Guy

[cybercoma]

Sometimes quantity can try to bury quality - if you allow it to happen. It is similar to trying to shout down or outtalk another person in face to face discussion. Facts can be easily communicated through brevity and focus.

That's why I usually skip over Rue's posts. If he had something to say, he would say it clearly and concisely. Instead he rambles on and on meandering between topics and never really making a point, other than insults.

[Hudson Jones]

Rue is trying to muddy the water again. Notice he didn't talk about the reputation of the person leading the investigation. He also made false claims in regards to where the evidence and the information came from.

That's the thing about Rue. He writes and writes and no one has the patience to read or respond to him. Therefore, this false claims he makes go unanswered. There is plenty of information in the report that shows that this report and investigation, headed by a reputable team of experts, is credible. Below is information on how the evidence was collected on the house bombings. The information is on pages 40 and 41 from the UN report.

112. The commission examined in detail 15 strikes on residential buildings in the Gaza Strip in which a total of 216 people were killed, including 115 children and 50 women. The commission conducted 37 interviews, reviewed confidential submissions from a variety of stakeholders, governmental and non-governmental, and consulted publicly available information. These include photos, satellite imagery and video materials. All available materials relating to each incident were reviewed by a military expert to determine the type of weapons most likely to have been used. The assessment included matching testimony of witnesses to a variety of indicators, such as photographs of injuries to persons, damage to buildings and surroundings, and remnants of weapons.

113. Homes and buildings destroyed as a result of the air-land operation into Shuja’iya, Khuza’a and Rafah (often due to tank or artillery shells) are discussed in the chapter on ground operations (V.A.3). The present chapter therefore focuses on those residential buildings that were struck by what appears to have been targeted air strikes.

114. By letter dated 10 February, the commission asked the Israeli authorities for information “on several general issues and…clarifying the factual circumstances of specific incidents”. The commission specifically inquired about 13 out of the 15 incidents examined in this chapter as well as the strikes on high rise buildings in late August 2014. Israel was asked to explain the specific contribution of each building to the military actions of the Palestinian armed groups and how its destruction represented a military advantage for the IDF; what were the ranks and combat functions of members of armed groups if they were the target of the attack; what precautionary measures, including warnings and the choice of weapons, were employed; what was the number of fatalities resulting from each of the incidents; and whether any investigations had been initiated in relation to these strikes. No response was received from the Government of Israel. Therefore, to the extent possible, the commission assessed materials that are in the public domain. In particular, Israel published information on 8 attacks on homes that were examined by the General Staff Mechanism for Fact-Finding Assessments (FFAM) and the Military Advocate General (MAG), 3 of which are discussed in the present chapter¹. The MAG’s findings are referred to in the relevant sections of the text.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. There is SO much information.

[Rue]

HJ you just proved in your response what I said, that the UN report was based on second hand heresay evidence, not first hand observation.

What it does show is this commission thinks it can second guess what happened after the fact and you think the IDF was going to respond to the head of this commission when his open agenda is anti Israeli? They replaced him but not his conclusions.

Interesting because you said I did not talk about the reputation of the person leading the investigation but its there for anyone to see, I pointed out the head of the Commission had to be removed because of his blatant anti Israel bias.

Then you engage in the personal remarks about no one reads what I write posing as if you represent the forum. Lol. HJ you will use whatever shield you can to pose behind to suggest your words come from more than one person, i.e., now its , EcoPeace, and this forum. Time and time again you have to expand yourself to include others when responding to em as if that gives you added credibility in what you write..it doesn't, it just reflects an insecurity that you can't deal with me unless you bring back up. Hah. Safety in numbers is it.

Well yes then I get to read Big Guy responding, not to the thread, not to the report, just to the length of my response.Look at the 3 of you-you don't respond to the issues, but you do try engage me in personal insults over the length of my responses...lol.

Does length matter? Clearly with you 3 it causes size anxiety.

Interesting how you and Cyber claim you don't read what I write but respond to it.

As for you Cyber, you came on this thread pissing on not just the IDF but Israel's right to exist. Back track all you want you juped on a bandwagon of anti Israel chorus and its a chorus that question's the right of Israel not just to defend itself but smeer its people for defending themselves and their very right to exist and now after your repeated judgemental coments you you state you support its right to exist.

That's interesting Cyber. In one breath you piss on the IDF and all Israelis in your words, then try claim you support Israel? Lol. I guess that's the same as not reading what I write but always being able to respond to it. Lol.

As for you HJ, atta boy, you take a report that condemns what Hamas and the PA did, skip over that,ignore yoru smoking gun report was only able to find info to complain about 6 of 6,000 missile attacks, and you think that establishes a shield of credibility for your latest piss on Israel exercise?

Lol.Yes and hey I know, you think second hand after the fact witness statements from "witnesses"bluffs your way through this thread? Go on HJ finish what you started. Tell everyone who those "witnesses" or "military experts" asked for their opinions after the fact, are.

Go on finish. Tell people who they are.Lol. You won't. Because you know those so called witnesses are pro Hamas. You dojn't dre adit Palestinian civilians who openly criticized Hamas for what they did and tried to contact this commission were intercepted and threatened by Hamas.

Go on explain who the military experts were.

Lol.

You won't. Your script is to present one bias diatribe not examine what happened in a balanced and neutral manner and if Cyber wants to join your chorus knock yourself out Cyber. You two can get together with Big Guy and tell his Jewish friends I said, the IDF did a fantastic job kicking Hamas's ass despite Hamas hiding behind its citizens as shields to get them killed.

Go tell Big Guy's Jewish friends y colleagues are in the IDF and put their lives on the line so Palestinian civilians do not die .

Go on arm chair counter-terrorist experts, sing your song...wait here it coes....

Da Lion of Zion keeps on rappin by DJ Ben Gurion

I sit on my sofa glued to my box

no timefor even bagels and lox

see I' m establishing reality about a war

but I never even need to open my door

sit in my room visiting Gaza

but I can barely find my way in a shopping plaza

yah I give myself a pat on the back

then morally judge and dish out flack

but of course its only against dah Jooz

because they just refuse to lose

they won't roll over and sit on their ass

and allow their deaths at the hands of Hamas

Cyber,HJ, Big Guy all know

Hamas can't get them Jews to Go

so Ahmed, Omar and Abou

and whatever Anglo names you choose for you

you don't speak for Palestinians

just yourself and your imagined millions

Edited July 2, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

HJ you just proved in your response what I said, that the UN report was based on second hand heresay evidence, not first hand observation.

What a terrible response.

First of all, many of the interviews were from people who went through the experience and survived to tell about it. So it's not "second hand heresay". This is how investigations are done. Detectives are not at the sight or scene during the criminal activity. They gather evidence after the fact. Which is exactly what has happened here by the expert group sent to Gaza.

You can try to discredit the method because your team is looking like the criminals that they are, but it's not going to work. This is how investigations are done and accepted at all levels.

- Look at the physical including satelite images, photos, videos

- Bring in weapons' experts

- Do interviews

- Match testimony

On top of that, a lot of the method this report has shown were confirmed by Israeli soldiers who had the strength and the morality to come clean. These are the soldiers who gave testimonies with Breaking the Silence (http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/).

Anyone who is interested in getting a glimpse into the most moral army in the world (can you believe that you can still hear some Zionists use that?), I recommend reading this report (http://goo.gl/aaMIIx), past reports and the testimonies by Israeli soldiers from Breaking the Silence.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Hudson Jones

[Rue]

HJ your latest responses now shows you have no clue about the report's actual scope and method of investigations and are making up your response as you go along.

Put up or shut up;

1-provide the names of the UN investigators who witnesses first hand any of the attacks they made conclusions on;

2-provide the identity of the witnesses the UN relied on to conclude the 6 of 6,000 air attacks were not military in objective;

3-explain who the military experts were and what evidence they relied on;

4-explain how a photo can show an attack was not military in nature;

5-provide the names of the IDF soldiers that provided evidence to the UN report.

In regards to 1; you have no clue who they are and you know full well they did not observe first hand any attacks;

In regards to 2; you are well aware the witnesses who provided their own subjective evidence of the attacks were hand picked by Hamas;

In regards to 3; good luck;

In regards to 4; good luck-again you get caught in your own bluff-the photos were used to locate the attacks-the photos themselves could not and will not render information as to the context of the attack only the location of it-which is precisely why the commission had to then go speak with supposed eye witnesses but never engaged in a screening method to assure they were not picked by Hamas and told what to say by Hamas;

In regards to 5; lol good luck on that as well because what you have done is assume that IDF soldiers who complained about their missions in the Israeli media cooperated with the UN-put up or shut up-prove it they never did-IDF soldiers who come back from the field would not be able to understand the true extent of the reasons for the orders given to them-it would not be discussed with the nor would he intelligence be provided to them as the reasons for the orders given-there would be no time, and any idiot knows a conventional army;s command during battle does not share info with its soldiers-they are told only what they need to know to get their mission done and so a soldier guilty about killing a civilian would not know the real reason they had to attack the place where the civilian was.

You bluff your way through a misery trying to exploit it without knowing an iota of what happened. You again show how you bluff your way through the report with no specific references making nonsensical statements denying the UN report writers witnessed first hand the attacks, then make the ridiculous comment a photo is evidence of motive.

You still have not explained why you ignore the report's full contents and only focus on what it said about Israel then compound your lack of credibility by refusing to explain how 6 of 6,000 air attacks shows anything but clear evidence of trying not to hurt civilians.

The very info you rely on condemns Hamas and establishes its terrorism was the very reason for the attacks and yet you ignore that.

What a joke-6 of 6,000 and you bluff your way through a report you have not read and ignore your smoking gun establishes only .06% of the air attacks from the IAF were questionable.

You don't dare point out the report's findings on Hamas, admit Hamas used its civilians as shields deliberately to kill the as the very same report you rely on said.

Giddee up Giddee up Abou

go get that Jew

call him a cancerous thought

keep repeating that a lot

never mind the actual story

emphasize dah Jews are gory

how dare they want a nation

that's what's to blame for this situation

never mind the terrorism of Hamas

those Jews should just sit on their ass

let the missiles and tunnel attacks come

yah just agree to die by acting dumb

run along your piss is funny

yer pointing it right in the wind honey

Edited July 3, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

You can play your game all you want, Rue. Most people will not buy your dishonest attacks on anyone who criticizes Israel.

It's not required for investigators to be at the sight when the criminality was taking place by Israel. In almost all cases, when it comes to these types of investigations, the same method is used. Physical evidence, interviews and testimonies. How do you think Nuremberg happened? You think the judges and the investigators witnessed the Nazi atrocities? Of course not. Can't wait for the Zionist criminals to go through the ICC as well.

You want a joke investigation, take a load of this investigation (http://goo.gl/9bDcsg), done by Israel to do a "preemptive" strike on the UN report that came out a week after. One of the main people doing the report on behalf of Israel is Israel's favourite shill, colonel Richard Kemp from England. This guy has made millions flying around the world, selling the Zionist agenda.

[Rue]

When I challenge your words have the integrity to speak for yourself. Your need to reinvent and inflate yourself as "everyone who disagrees with Israel" to try inflate your identity does not make your words more credible- but it does show tell tale how you try turn yourself into a plural. Listen- whether you use more than one name on this board to promote a tag team appearance or simply refer to yourself as "everyone against Israel" I could care less...hey you need to hide behind an inflated identity-knock yourself out.

You are totally wrong about Nuremberg.It's findings that were found adissable were not just based on first hand evidence to corroborate circumstantial evidence but documentary evidence. So you are dead wrong.

The methods used by this UN Commission in fact are not the same as Nuremberg and your false representations and inferences they are is absolute bull.

To state what you did shows yu have no clue as to the totality of evidence considered by Nuremberg let alone know what and how it was collected, from who, how it was screened for distortion from bias and how it was tested for veracity during a trial whereas the commission never did such thing or even obtained the sae evidence.

Your ignorance of history is tell tale.How about you make an effort before you come on this forum and fabricate misrepresentations about Nuremberg in some hal- assed Jews are now being treated as Nazis inference to go find out that in fact the investigators and Judges in Nuremberg operated completely differently and evidence for the most part consisted of thousands of pages of documents from meticulous records kept by the Nazis themselves to decipher the intent behind their orders.

You now try equate this documentary evidence to bias second hand evidence and claim they are the same. What crap. First of all educate yourself on the second hand evidence used by the commission and find out how it was not tested for accuracy o r credibility simply assumed to be true.

Then understand that was not the same as the also suspect evidence from alleged civilian victims. The two are not the same. The evidence used to determine the 6 air attacks were not of military context relied on alleged civilian testimony-the after the fact photos and physical damage by itself could not establish motive only site of response by the IDF not the initial shot that triggered the response shot.

In regards to the alleged civilians who provided testimony whether they claimed to have seen something first hand they did not know what the orders were that initiated the attack by Hamas and the counter attack by the IDF. Without such crucial information they necessarily have no definitive evidence to rely on, just after the fact pain suffered as a result of the war.

They have no way of understanding the actual chain of events leading up to the attack they witnesses any more than a soldier in the IDF being given an order on the ground could not know its full context for then being told to fire at a certain location.

The intent behind Hamas' attacks is public knowledge. Their own testimony states they deliberately placed attackers in hopsitals, schools, mosques, apartments or rocket launchers on motorcyles in the middle of crowds to deliberately incite response to their attack to kill civilians. Its a pre-meditated tactic they openly admit stating dying for their cause makes their citizens martyrs.

The IDF fully admitted when it fired back it would give 5-10 minute warnings with a first attack which only made a large sound plus leaflets. The UN said that was not good enough but provides no alternative to that.

This commission was flawed fro the get go because it admitted neither side's parties who initiated the actual attacks and counter attacks could be examined or were examined. For that very reason it failed.

It then failed as the Chairman of this farse was exposed as being paid by the PA as its lobbyist.

Then it became even more absurd when it stated the context for the air strikes by the IDF was in fact to stop Hamas attacks but for reasons based on subjective guessing from civilians decided that was enough to find 6 of 6000 strikes suspect... only 6 of them they said had no military context. Right. They just happened. A bunch of Zionists sitting around with nothing to do ordered them for the hell of it.

Now unable to defend this report because of the above you try deflect from this sham of a report to try engage me in another issue? That tactic of changing the subject when you can't squirm out of your position is as pathetic as the tactic of throwing out self references to inflate yourself into a plural to make you try sound bigger than life.

This topic you started is the UN report. Put up or shut up and stop trying to change the subject.

I still wait your responses you ignore.

You have yet to explain why you ignore the portions of the report condemning Hamas and the PA. Why? How is it you only cherry pick portions of the findings and refuse to discuss the entire report?

You also have yet to address how this report found let alone could only find 6 of 6000 air attacks suspect.

You have yet to disclose the methods of investigation actually used, explained how they were not subject to bias, and who the witnesses were and hy you think they were credible.

You can't. You haven't a clue who these witnesses are, what they stated or even how they were found to testify.

Now you try bluff a ridiculous analogy the Nuremberg when you have not one piece of evidence indicating what the basis of orders were on either side?

Right.

Lol. This is spent.Run along and find a new context to piss on Zionists.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

When I challenge your words have the integrity to speak for yourself. Your need to reinvent and inflate yourself as "everyone who disagrees with Israel" to try

I speak for myself and for what I see.

You attack anyone who criticizes Israel. Whether it's Big Guy, marcus, cybercoma, Ghosthacked, jacee, eyeball, dre.. etc.

It's great that you want to sell to everyone that you somehow have more credibility than different organizations, not just the UN, who have found evidence of war crimes by Israel. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem and the Red Cross have all found evidence of war crimes by Israel. Somehow, Rue and the Hasbara say otherwise. Because they have more credibility than those organization and people like former New York Supreme Court judge, Mary McGowan Davis, who headed the most recent report on the Gaza slaughter by Israel. Yeah, okay.

It doesn't matter how credible the report and the people behind the reports are, if they criticize Israel, OMG! They're Hitler!

[Rue]

That HJ was expected. You hide behind others and engage in name calling. Your tactic is as petulant as if I came on this board claiming you accuse anyone of being pro Israel of being a Nazi and then listing off people also on this forum who disagree with you.

That tactic is spent.

You have something to debate-put it on the board. I debate it.Trying to shield yourself behind people and play victim for you and them because I debate your comments i transparent and so is the fact you engage in that tactic because you have no counter response to the points I raised. Not one. Not one shred of evidence to back up your allegations either.

You now also try hide behind all kinds of organizations claiming they support the methods used in the investigation.False. Another fabrication.Go on prove all these organizations you now shield yourself behind approved the investigatory methods of this commission.Go on are you going to once provide a shred of evidence for the claims you throw out and try pass as fact?

More to the point how does the fact people may agree with either me or you establish credibility in an argument? The fact som eone agrees with you or does not, does not establish credibility.

You throw out the names of these organizations to suggest they support the report of the commission but then try give yourself wiggle room to argue well no you never said that-just that they consider Israel a war criminal.

Then you accuse me of muddying the waters? Lol. You can't defend the report's investigatory methods and so what...well you portray yourself as victim, a member of a larger victim group, then for good measure inflate your self reference even bigger trying to attach yourself to organizations you think agree with you and never conducted the investigation I have challenged.,

Right- your attempt to suggest Eco Peace agrees with you and wants Israel destroyed for being Jewish...and hen..you were going to have a beer with me and toast the destruction of Jewish Israel...how did that tactic work out for you? Lol.

Back at it again. So does it look like these false attachments to organizations and their beliefs and shielding yourself in plurals has made you credible?

You think name dropping suddenly makes your comments credible?

Hey I hang with Taylor Swift, Myley Cyrus, and Paula Abdul. Wowza. How can you beat that line up.

Stop referring to yourself as everyone. You are not. When I address your responses, I respond to you and only you.Hiding behind the word 'everyone' when referring to your opinons is ridiculous. You are not everyone.

You want to try this crap calling me and anyone who you think agrees with me Hasbra? Oopsyou are slipping. You may want to avoid the tell tale Iranian government script syntax and slip back into your Hudson Jones Ti Horton's personna.

Now you did one thing all readers can see in your last sentence. You claim I called the people responsible or who wrote the report I challenge Hitler.

That is a false statement. Your putting an exclamation mark on it shows you threw it out as a false emotional insult.

Your attempt to suggest I called anyone associated with the reprt a Nazi is false. Rettract the statement.

You in fact brought up Nuremberg and equated the two investigations as being the same introducing the inference that what Nazis did to Jews was investigated no differently than what this commission did setting the stage of suggesting this Comission is today's Nuremberg and the IDF and what it represents are Nazis.

You raised the Nazis not I and yet you now try suggest I do. Lol.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

Zionism and Zionists are bad for the world. Zionism is an immoral, selfish ideology that has passed its prime and it's on its way down. This is why Zionists have become even more extreme. They are squeezing hard to hold onto the power they've gained through dishonesty and brutality. More and more people know how dishonest Zionists can be and more and more Jews are distancing themselves. This is why some of the leading anti-Zionist groups are Jewish groups. Jewish groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace, which has achieved so much in America through their tireless efforts in drawing attention to what Israel has been doing in the name of Zionism.

It's only a matter of time before Zionism and Zionists will be ridiculed around the world like those who participated and condoned Apartheid South Africa.

[Rue]

Your script is recycled. You don't even disguise retreading it. It also has nothing to do with the war crime allegation. It again shows when you have no idea how to respond further when your diatribes are stripped of any credibility you try switch the topic. You show how all these threads simply are a pretext to repeat the same tired and forced script.

You are caught red handed misrepresenting what I said accusing me of calling people Nazis which I did not, and rather than withdraw your statement admitting it false you try change the subject with this recycled tripe.

[GostHacked]

Speaking of recycled scripts. Let's take a look at your post Rue.

Maybe I should put it into poem form?

[Rue]

Oh Ghost I respond-I do not initiate. Try understand that. I don't recycle the same scripts. I respond to them and I have no budget or desk-just one person-one. All it takes is one person to speak out Ghost-one. The silence these threads count on-it aint coming.

when I say peekaboo

I tell Abou

recycle that script

cuz I'm oh so hip

to dah propaganda game

no matter how lame

oh wait here it comes

wit dah anti Zionist chums

listen to that song

dah Jooz is all wrong

no to their state

destruction is their fate

Zionism bad bad bad

yegad

someone get a new hit fro Celine Dion

let's move on

maybe some Myley Cyrus

can address this anti Zionist virus

boo

[GostHacked]

Not sure if that is considered trolling. Does it further the discussion? Can I get a grown up to weigh in on this matter please?

[cybercoma]

Not sure if that is considered trolling. Does it further the discussion? Can I get a grown up to weigh in on this matter please?

Just stop responding to stupid posts. Let them stand as a testament to the poster's faculties.

[marcus]

Another report, this time by Amnesty International.

This report focuses on what they call Black Friday - Carnage in Rafah, where 135 civilians were killed with 75 of them children. This carnage started after an Israeli soldier was captured by Hamas. Israel has a "secret" policy where it does whatever it takes so that its soldier is not captured. This is called the Hannibal Directive. In this instance, the IDF decided to carpet bomb and kill everything in site, in order to prevent a capture/hostage situation.

The report, ‘Black Friday’: Carnage in Rafah, was compiled with Goldsmiths University’s London-based researchers Forensic Architecture and covers incidents over four days starting on 1 August, when a ceasefire broke down.

Using interviews, video footage, photographs and other evidence the researchers pieced together a timeline of events concluding that the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) “Hannibal Directive” had been enacted.

The report concluded that Israel committed war crimes again.

There is overwhelming evidence that Israeli forces committed disproportionate, or otherwise indiscriminate, attacks which killed scores of civilians in their homes, on the streets and in vehicles and injured many more. This includes repeatedly firing artillery and other imprecise explosive weapons in densely populated civilian areas during the attacks on Rafah between 1 and 4 August. In some cases, there are indications that they directly fired at and killed civilians, including people fleeing.

Edited August 1, 2015 by marcus

[Rue]

Oh look. A post about the bad Zionists. Who saw that coming. Cyber did you?

What... change the subject to piss on Israel and not deal with the topic. Why. I must be crazy suggesting such a thing.

Yes mooooooh hahahahah I am crazeeeee for saying that.

Oh come now boys, where are these cites?

www.amnesty.org/en/latestnews/2015/03/palestinian-armed-groups-killed-civilians-on-both-sides-in-2014-gaza-conflict/

www.amnesty.org/en/latestnews/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

Get back to me Cyber about being imbalanced because right now you seem to be selective in your analysis..

By the way I provide poetry in an effort to balance the discussion you know. Rapping is my way of saying of spreading peace and love.

Hey Hamas is fine

just piss on Zion

its only dem jooz

who cause dah blues

for no reason at all

dem Jooz jump over dat wall

deyz tah blame

cuz they didn't have a proper aim

see when Hamas hides behind their people

and shoot from some church steeple

that's just fine and dandy

using innocents as targets is handy

weez only here to blame Jooz

and ignore dah rest of dah newz

Edited August 1, 2015 by Rue

[WWWTT]

Not sure if that is considered trolling. Does it further the discussion? Can I get a grown up to weigh in on this matter please?

Just stop responding to stupid posts. Let them stand as a testament to the poster's faculties.

I would take cybercoma's advise here.

The moderators have made it clear that there are some poster's comments will NEVER be removed!

In other words, don't depend on the moderators to do their job or in a fair manner applied to all posters equally.

WWWTT