Hudson Jones Posted May 12, 2015 Report Posted May 12, 2015 Lauryn Hill and a number of other artists have canceled their concerts in Israel to show support for the BDS movement. Does that mean that they'd be prosecuted if they came to Canada? What about Stephen Hawking who has boycotted Israel? Would he be arrested? How about United Church of Canada, Canadian Quakers, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), various university groups and Independent Jewish Voices who support boycotting Israel and the BDS movement? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 There is not one reputable source of information that would refer to this situation as a genocide. But keep spinning. What group, committing genocidal acts against another less powerful group, has ever completely wiped out the latter? Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 But Israel hasn't attempted to destroy any ethnic, racial or religious group. So your accusation is so much ignorance. Repeated denials and delusional denials do not evidence make. Your opinions, while always welcome, also don't count as evidence. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Most likely principle, not a concept you're likely familiar with. That's really funny, Argus. A avid supporter of war criminals and terrorists discussing principle. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) But Israel hasn't attempted to destroy any ethnic, racial or religious group. So your accusation is so much ignorance. Another oops! Holocaust survivors and their descendants accuse Israel of genocide More than 300 Holocaust survivors and their descendants have condemned what they described as Israels 'genocide of Palestinian people' in an advert in the New York Times By ZACHARY DAVIES BOREN Sunday 24 August 2014 Dozens of Holocaust survivors, together with hundreds of descendants of Holocaust survivors and victims, have accused Israel of genocide for the deaths of more than 2,000 Palestinians in Gaza since the conflict erupted in July. In an open letter released by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network and published as an advert in The New York Times, the group calls for a full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel over its wholesale effort to destroy Gaza. Genocide begins with the silence of the world, the statement reads, We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. The statement also condemns the United States for its financial and diplomatic support of Israel. The signatories express alarm at the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever pitch. ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html Edited May 13, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 The population of the Palestinian area has quadrupled since Israel took over. That's quite the lack of success there. I wonder why there are so many that despise the acquisition of knowledge. Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and transfer of children are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a groups existence. The phrase "in whole or in part" is important. Perpetrators need not intend to destroy the entire group. Destruction of only part of a group (such as its educated members, or members living in one region) is also genocide. Most authorities require intent to destroy a substantial number of group members mass murder. But an individual criminal may be guilty of genocide even if he kills only one person, so long as he knew he was participating in a larger plan to destroy the group. http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext-printerfriendly.htm Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 To repeat, you can't use hate crime legislation against people simply for boycotting Israel. It would be the 'hate speech' which tries to convince people of why they ought to boycott Israel which could be targeted. I don't personally support hate speech laws, but I find it humourous that the people who are adamantly in support of that legislation now want an exemption to say anything they want, however hateful and vile against Israelis (and, if the truth were known, Jews). What a stretch!! And your sourcing, WOW! Don't get me wrong. I think that you are capable of even greater stretches. Quote
poochy Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Genocide noun geno·cide \ˈje-nə-ˌsīd\ : the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group that is the actual, real in the world definition, attacking those who shoot rockets at you and then stopping when they do is not genocide. Quote
Bryan Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Meanwhile, in the real world: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tories-deny-plan-to-use-hate-crime-laws-against-israel-boycotters-1.3069723 The federal Conservatives are denying there's any basis to a CBC News story saying the government is signalling its intention to use hate crime laws against Canadian advocacy groups that encourage boycotts of Israel. Asked Tuesday whether the government planned to use hate crime laws against Israel boycotters, Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney said "No," adding there are provisions in the Criminal Code to deal with hate speech and propaganda "and we trust in our justice system to enforce those regulations." Following the publication of the story on Monday, Jeremy Laurin, a spokesman for Blaney, said that "this story is inaccurate and ridiculous. These laws have been on the books for many years and have not changed." Quote
cybercoma Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 I guess that's what happens when the government is so lacking in transparency and accountability that they can't be bothered articulating their policies effectively to the media. Perhaps they should actually deliver on their platform promises from 2006 this decade. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Meanwhile, in the real world: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tories-deny-plan-to-use-hate-crime-laws-against-israel-boycotters-1.3069723 Meanwhile in the real world, if you had read all of the article you would see where John Baird signed a MOU with Israeli officials to combat BDS. And also that Blaney has claimed the gov. has adopted a zero tolerance policy against BDS. Of course its hard to tell what the CPC actually intends since everything they say are nothing more than talking points from the Harper playbook. Quote
jacee Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Posted May 13, 2015 Genocide noun geno·cide \ˈje-nə-ˌsīd\ : the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group that is the actual, real in the world definition, attacking those who shoot rockets at you and then stopping when they do is not genocide. The real definition used in International Courts is the UN Convention I cited. . Quote
jacee Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Posted May 13, 2015 Meanwhile, in the real world: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tories-deny-plan-to-use-hate-crime-laws-against-israel-boycotters-1.3069723 Asked Tuesday whether the government planned to use hate crime laws against Israel boycotters, Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney said "No," adding there are provisions in the Criminal Code to deal with hate speech and propaganda "and we trust in our justice system to enforce those regulations."Weasel words."The government" isn't ... The police will. :/ . Quote
BC_chick Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Israel should be held to the same standards as planet Earth. And btw, is there a boycott/divest group aimed at North Korea, or Russia, or China, or any of the hundred other countries out there which violate human rights? Is there a strong boycott Egypt or boycott Pakistan group? Boycott Nigeria or boycott Kenya? Boycott Indonesia or Malaysia? Nobody gives a crap about how many human rights violations the rest of the world engages in except for their own expatriates. Name one democracy in the world with gay rights, women's rights and even animal-rights where the leaders openly refer to an ethnic minority as subhuman, take away their property at will and refuse to grant them personhood and revoke their right travel freely around the country. Just one! (Israel notwithstanding). The part that eludes you in all this is that Israel claims to be the only *democracy* in the region when clearly it's not. It's similar to countries you named which frankly people equally deplore. Boycott China?!? Is that a new thing to you? Should that be a hate crime too in Canada? At least China and USSR don't behind a facade of 'democracy' nor do they systamtically base their human rights based on superior sense of racial divide. India, yes, India comes close with their (illegal yet continuing) caste system. That's another fine beacon to have your democracy compared to. Where women are burned with their husbands, the poor bathe in poop and women get raped every second. Sure, Israel is in good company so why single it out? Because it claims to be a progressive democracy. Imagine if Canada, US or European country was doing to a portion of its population what Israel does to the Palestinians. The poop-storm would be ten times worse and it would have nothing to do with hating Canadians or Americans or Europeans. It's a stance against racism and apartheid. Edited May 13, 2015 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
jacee Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Posted May 13, 2015 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott_from_Within In an August 2010 speech to the Knesset, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the Boycott From Within movement as a national scandal.[15] National scandal ... well that's an opinion. But I haven't heard of Netanyahu calling for Israeli participants to be charged with hate crimes ... like Harper wants to do to Canadians. . Quote
Argus Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 That's really funny, Argus. A avid supporter of war criminals and terrorists discussing principle. You gonna tell us again about how, when you were considering what moniker to use here, decided to use the same one as that used to support a terrorist? You're the last person on this web site who should be accusing anyone of supporting terrorism. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Genocide noun geno·cide \ˈje-nə-ˌsīd\ : the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group that is the actual, real in the world definition, attacking those who shoot rockets at you and then stopping when they do is not genocide. It is if you're Jewish, apparently. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hudson Jones Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Name one democracy in the world with gay rights, women's rights and even animal-rights where the leaders openly refer to an ethnic minority as subhuman, take away their property at will and refuse to grant them personhood and revoke their right travel freely around the country. Just one! (Israel notwithstanding). The part that eludes you in all this is that Israel claims to be the only *democracy* in the region when clearly it's not. It's similar to countries you named which frankly people equally deplore. Boycott China?!? Is that a new thing to you? Should that be a hate crime too in Canada? At least China and USSR don't behind a facade of 'democracy' nor do they systamtically base their human rights based on superior sense of racial divide. India, yes, India comes close with their (illegal yet continuing) caste system. That's another fine beacon to have your democracy compared to. Where women are burned with their husbands, the poor bathe in poop and women get raped every second. Sure, Israel is in good company so why single it out? Because it claims to be a progressive democracy. Imagine if Canada, US or European country was doing to a portion of its population what Israel does to the Palestinians. The poop-storm would be ten times worse and it would have nothing to do with hating Canadians or Americans or Europeans. It's a stance against racism and apartheid. It never fails. It's quite telling when all these unconditional supporters of Israel try to defend Israel's actions by using the argument that Israel is not as bad as [insert country with terrible human rights record] It's like a rapist in court trying to use the defense that it's okay with what they have done because there are worse rapists out there. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Argus Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Name one democracy in the world with gay rights, women's rights and even animal-rights where the leaders openly refer to an ethnic minority as subhuman, take away their property at will and refuse to grant them personhood and revoke their right travel freely around the country. Just one! (Israel notwithstanding). Name me one democracy with gay rights,m women's rights and even animal-rights which has been surrounded by enemies and subjected to constant violent attacks, invasions and terrorism without pause for fifty years. And you expect them to feel love and respect for Arabs? What planet are you from again? The part that eludes you in all this is that Israel claims to be the only *democracy* in the region when clearly it's not. It's more of a democracy than any Arab, or for that matter, any Muslim country. And has more respect for human rights than any Arab or Muslim country. It's similar to countries you named which frankly people equally deplore. Similar except that those others have no gay or womens rights, you mean, and no democracy? So we should join them and heap abuse on Israel? How many boycott groups are targeting Muslim or Arab countries because of their deplorable human rights records? How many earnest Left wingers are out there pounding the pulpit demanding people stop buying stuff from Malaysia or Indonesia or China? At least China and USSR don't behind a facade of 'democracy' nor do they systamtically base their human rights based on superior sense of racial divide. Well, first of all, Israel's sense is based on having been attacked and despised by Arabs and Muslims for fifty years. Second of all, yes, they actually do pretend to be something other than they are. Russia pretends to be a democracy and pretends it doesn't have tens of thousands of troops in Ukraine for example. China pretends it doesn't abuse the human rights of its Muslims or, for that matter, Tibetans or Christians or anyone else. In addition, both countries are virulently racist in every imaginable way, from the population at large to the government and all of its many organs. They discriminate not only based on skin colour and ethnic origin but on religion. That you don't know that simply speaks to how ignorant you are, and how little interest you have in human rights abuses which aren't being perpetrated by Jews. And I don't say that to accuse you of not liking Jews. I say that because the western media and internet are so chock full of weepy stories about how evil the Israelis are, while being largely absent of similar themes towards other countries. All those well-paid journalists, for example, who make Israel their base, won't, if they're transferred to China, say much the government there doesn't like, because if they do they'll be booted out, and their network/newspaper won't be allowed back in. Sure, Israel is in good company so why single it out? Because it claims to be a progressive democracy. Oh, please don't make me laugh. Israel is being singled out because it 'claims' to be a progressive democracy? First of all, where has Israel EVER claimed to being a progressive democracy? Israel is a religious based country and that religion, as practiced in Israel, isn't always liberal minded. Second, the idea that Israel is targeted for extra special attention because it's a democracy is even more ludicrous given that you are basically siding with the most viscous abusers of human rights, the people who despise womens rights and gay rights, against a country which is far and away more benign in almost every way, shape and form. There are two reasons why Israel is specifically targeted. One is that they're Jews, and a lot of people don't like Jews, especially amongst the Left. The other is that, according to the perception of the empty-headed Left, they're WHITE people, and the Arabs are BROWN people. That simplistic theme runs throughout all your outrage.You don't hold them to a higher standard because they're a democracy but because they're white. White people, you feel, are more civilized and should act with more restraint and humanity than those barbarous dark people. Oh, you'd never say that. But the complaints of the Left drip with this sort of paternalistic racist theme. Imagine if Canada, US or European country was doing to a portion of its population what Israel does to the Palestinians. The poop-storm would be ten times worse and it would have nothing to do with hating Canadians or Americans or Europeans. If we had a minority which was firing rockets into our cities, setting off suicide bombs in our schools, blowing up airplanes and setting off car bombs, and had been relentlessly hostile and responsible for attack after attack for years unending you can be damned sure we'd be treating them with a lot less than respect. We'd wall them off, and every time one showed his face we'd be greeting him with hostility and suspicion. Every Israeli citizen knows, from a very early age, that if he ever falls into the hands of Arabs or Muslims, ANYWHERE in the world, he's in deep trouble Canada, the US and Europe are fat and safe and comfortable. No sane person can compare them to a small, isolated country like Israel which has been surrounded by murderous hostility for their entire existence. You people are so sorrowfully sympathetic to Omar Khadr because of how he was raised but don't seem to have the imagination necessary to wonder what it must be like to be raised knowing that you're the target of murderous, fanatical hostility by everyone within a thousand miles around who isn't one of yours. Edited May 13, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 It never fails. It's quite telling when all these unconditional supporters of Israel try to defend Israel's actions by using the argument that Israel is not as bad as [insert country with terrible human rights record] It's like a rapist in court trying to use the defense that it's okay with what they have done because there are worse rapists out there. No, it's more like the victim of a mob of would-be rapists being hounded by people for daring to be impolite to the mob, and for taking steps to defend herself. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 You gonna tell us again about how, when you were considering what moniker to use here, decided to use the same one as that used to support a terrorist? You're the last person on this web site who should be accusing anyone of supporting terrorism. Can you say lame, Argus? But yet a smart fella like you clings to these inanities. Go figure! I think everyone is impressed at your deft handling of difficult issues. I guess Omar Sharif and Omar Bradeley are supporters of terrorism, too. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Sorry, folks, I bumped the wrong button. But I dutifully backspaced every Argus meme so that you didn't have to not read them again. Edited May 13, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 Argus: Name me one democracy with gay rights,m women's rights and even animal-rights which has been surrounded by enemies and subjected to constant violent attacks, invasions and terrorism without pause for fifty years. ---------------------- Cuba, Vietnam, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Korea, the list is rather long. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 No, it's more like the victim of a mob of would-be rapists being hounded by people for daring to be impolite to the mob, and for taking steps to defend herself. Yup, no sources again for how many posts? However, it must be noted that you have the memes nailed, Argus. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted May 13, 2015 Report Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) No, it's more like the victim of a mob of would-be rapists being hounded by people for daring to be impolite to the mob, and for taking steps to defend herself. The apologists either try to minimize or take attention away from Israel's atrocities by asking why no one is up in arms for what Congo (or some other country with terrible human rights) does or they pull out the Forever Victim card. Of course, they also try to shut down criticism by accusing people of being anti-semites. It's always cute when one of the most bigoted posters on this forum, Argus, accuses others of racism. Israel is the rapist and has always been the rapist. Less and less people buy this forever victim b.s. any more. It doesn't matter how much you repeat it. Here are some facts: Israeli soldiers are coming forward and are sharing with the world what Israel's army did to the real victims, the Palestinians in the last Gaza attack. You can keep commenting, but reality and facts will continue to show that majority of what you say is incorrect. Edited May 13, 2015 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
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