Federal Budget 2015

cybercoma · April 27, 2015

This depends on what you save. If you put it into savings bonds, then I suppose you could be right. If you invest it in stocks in Canadian companies that's something completely different.

My neighbour goes down south every single winter. Does that help the economy? Not really.

So give a bunch of money to Canadian companies to produce stuff for people who aren't buying?

cybercoma · April 27, 2015

But I doubt the stagnation has anything to do with Canadians saving money in TFSA's or even RRSP's.

No one said RRSPs and TFSAs were the cause of the stagnation. What I'm saying is that implementing these policies to encourage people to save during a stagnate economy is the exact opposite of what you need to do to recover. It's only going to make the problem worse than it already is.

DFCaper · April 27, 2015

No one said RRSPs and TFSAs were the cause of the stagnation. What I'm saying is that implementing these policies to encourage people to save during a stagnate economy is the exact opposite of what you need to do to recover. It's only going to make the problem worse than it already is.

You must be so relieved that they didn't expand CPP!! Imagine the horror!!!

msj · April 28, 2015

No one said RRSPs and TFSAs were the cause of the stagnation. What I'm saying is that implementing these policies to encourage people to save during a stagnate economy is the exact opposite of what you need to do to recover. It's only going to make the problem worse than it already is.

Riiiight. It's just the timing you don't like.

Increasing the TFSA is unlikely to do anything for or against our economy.

The economy is too stagnant for many people to save over spend. Those who can save in a TFSA would have likely saved in a RRSP or non-registered account anyway so it is possible that the government gets a short term boost in revenues from people not taking a RRSP deduction now (only to see long term revenues decrease as RSP's mature).

If you want the economy to grow then some good old fashioned fiscal stimulus should be on the agenda: our infrastructure needs it and interest rates are at historic lows.

That is the type of spending that would lift our economy and productivity for generations to come.

Topaz · April 28, 2015

Question, which families REALLY benefit from the income splitting......the MPs, true or false??

Smallc · April 28, 2015

Question, which families REALLY benefit from the income splitting......the MPs, true or false??

False?

msj · April 28, 2015

Question, which families REALLY benefit from the income splitting......the MPs, true or false??

From the family splitting?

Would have to see some demographic numbers on it as I'm not sure how many MP's have kids under 18 and the extent to which the spouse works or not.

Pension splitting?

You're damn right they benefit.

They get a nice pension whereby if they were to retire at age 55 they can split the income with their spouse.

A regular person without a pension who is forced to save using a RRSP would have to wait to age 65, convert the RRSP to a RRIF and then withdraw it to be able to split it.

Of course, a regular person would have to work to 65 anyways compared to a MP so that's all you need to know right there.

Edited April 28, 2015 by msj

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

The economy is too stagnant for many people to save over spend.

And that's another problem, but I guess if you're all for tax breaks for the wealthy then the TFSAs look like a great thing.

PIK · April 28, 2015

Elderly can save more money to give to kids and gran kids, since that is all we hear about.

hitops · April 28, 2015

And that's another problem, but I guess if you're all for tax breaks for the wealthy then the TFSAs look like a great thing.

It's not a tax break for the wealthy, unless it is somehow legislated to be only available to people who are wealthy, which is is not. It is available to anyone.

Now if you are an average person and choose to make an $800/mo car payment in order to drive a nice car to show your neighbors, rather than keeping your old one and putting into TFSA, that's your choice.

This is mechanism for responsible people from lower income brackets to plan ahead to give themselves more wealth in the future. It's a way for people to move up. Naturally, there are reasons people in lower income brackets are there, and those reasons don't usually include 'great money manager'. Rather they usually include 'need $12/day for smokes'. Life is full of choices.

Ash74 · April 28, 2015

And that's another problem, but I guess if you're all for tax breaks for the wealthy then the TFSAs look like a great thing.

How am I wealthy?

I gross in a little over 90 grand a year and work six days a week. My wife is a stay at home Mom who also helps out other parents and my kids school.

You ask why should I get a tax break.

Ok I ask why should I pay taxes for services I do not use?

I have never collected welfare? Why should they get my money?

I never take transit in Toronto so why should I be paying for that?

I do not live in Oakville yet I am paying for gas plants there.

I never mail anything and all my bills are electronic so why am I helping out Canada post?

I do not watch the CBC yet I pay for that?

This was a nice break and one that I could use. Not a wealthy guy just one that is tired of my earnings going to something else. This was a small victory but I will take it.

CPCFTW · April 28, 2015

No one said RRSPs and TFSAs were the cause of the stagnation. What I'm saying is that implementing these policies to encourage people to save during a stagnate economy is the exact opposite of what you need to do to recover. It's only going to make the problem worse than it already is.

And yet you support Wynne's plan to force people to save. At least the conservatives are making it an option.

Canadians have one of the worst savings rates and household debt in the world. Incenting Canadians to save more instead of borrowing money is long overdue.

CPCFTW · April 28, 2015

How am I wealthy?

I gross in a little over 90 grand a year and work six days a week. My wife is a stay at home Mom who also helps out other parents and my kids school.

You ask why should I get a tax break.

Ok I ask why should I pay taxes for services I do not use?

I have never collected welfare? Why should they get my money?

I never take transit in Toronto so why should I be paying for that?

I do not live in Oakville yet I am paying for gas plants there.

I never mail anything and all my bills are electronic so why am I helping out Canada post?

I do not watch the CBC yet I pay for that?

This was a nice break and one that I could use. Not a wealthy guy just one that is tired of my earnings going to something else. This was a small victory but I will take it.

Same.. I make over 90k and live in a rented basement. In 10+ more years of working and saving in my tfsa and rrsp, maybe I will be "wealthy", but the harder it is to save, the longer I will toil away keeping my job away from new entrants.

"Progressives" love to complain about a lack of jobs for new grads and yet they want to force everyone to work 40 years to retire. If the middle class could save faster then they can vacate middle class jobs for new grads faster too.

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

And yet you support Wynne's plan to force people to save.

I do? Show me where I supported that.

The answer is I haven't because I'm not in Ontario and I don't pay particularly close attention to provincial politics in Ontario.

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

How am I wealthy?

I gross in a little over 90 grand a year

Congratulations, you make triple the median personal income in Canada. What you do with your money is irrelevant. You make far more money than the vast majority of people in this country whether you feel wealthy or not.

Ash74 · April 28, 2015

Congratulations, you make triple the median personal income in Canada. What you do with your money is irrelevant. You make far more money than the vast majority of people in this country whether you feel wealthy or not.

http://www.workopolis.com/content/advice/article/how-much-money-are-we-earning-the-average-canadian-wages-right-now/

Not quite double and that covers my wife not having o work. Her choice.

We have that luxury. But JT claims I am rich. I beg to differ

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

http://www.workopolis.com/content/advice/article/how-much-money-are-we-earning-the-average-canadian-wages-right-now/

Not quite double and that covers my wife not having o work. Her choice.

We have that luxury. But JT claims I am rich. I beg to differ

Average is absolutely meaningless with a skewed sample like wages. Median tells you the 50/50 split. That means half of Canadians earn below the median and the other half earn above. The median total income for individuals in Canada was $31,320 in 2012. You'll forgive me if I don't use Workpolis as a source. Statistics Canada is more reliable. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil105a-eng.htmSo your personal income was roughly 3x greater than what 50% of the population made in 2012. Like I said, you might not want to think you're "rich," but you most certainly are far more wealthy the vast majority of Canadians.

dre · April 28, 2015

And yet you support Wynne's plan to force people to save. At least the conservatives are making it an option.

Canadians have one of the worst savings rates and household debt in the world. Incenting Canadians to save more instead of borrowing money is long overdue.

The thing is... Our low savings rate is not an accident its a strategy. The government / central bank WANTED us to be where we are, which is why interest rates are so low. And if they had not cut rates we would have already had a deep recession, not to mention a collapse of our over-inflated realestate market, and the consequences related to that.

Its a double edged sword. Easing credit provides short term economic stimulus up to a certain point, and allows the government to claim they are fantastic stewards of the economy. But it also causes long term problems like asset bubbles, the depletion of savings, and leaves the government with few cards to play if the economy skips off the tracks again. Never the less... This IS the prevailing Keynsian economic wisdom. When the economy is weak you cut overnight rates. Its politically wise too because you punt the real structural problems in the economy off to future governments to have to deal with.

And Canadians are getting signals from the government, the central bank, and chartered commercial banks that savings are bad right now.

msj · April 28, 2015

How am I wealthy?

I gross in a little over 90 grand a year and work six days a week. My wife is a stay at home Mom who also helps out other parents and my kids school.

You ask why should I get a tax break.

Ok I ask why should I pay taxes for services I do not use?

I have never collected welfare? Why should they get my money?

I never take transit in Toronto so why should I be paying for that?

[etc etc]

Good for you.

As part of a childless couple making $x figures I say boo hoo hoo.

I have to pay for other peoples' kids going to school just for the off chance he/she will wipe my ass when I am old.

Even then, I will have to pay them for the privilege.

Why do I have to pay taxes for services I don't use?

Because I live in a civilized country.

Ash74 · April 28, 2015

Average is absolutely meaningless with a skewed sample like wages. Median tells you the 50/50 split. That means half of Canadians earn below the median and the other half earn above. The median total income for individuals in Canada was $31,320 in 2012. You'll forgive me if I don't use Workpolis as a source. Statistics Canada is more reliable. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil105a-eng.htmSo your personal income was roughly 3x greater than what 50% of the population made in 2012. Like I said, you might not want to think you're "rich," but you most certainly are far more wealthy the vast majority of Canadians.

Ok. Using those statistics that is still for an individual. Yes I am the sole source of income in my household but it is what supports my family. The income splitting and child credit helps pay the bills.

Good for you.

As part of a childless couple making $x figures I say boo hoo hoo.

I have to pay for other peoples' kids going to school just for the off chance he/she will wipe my ass when I am old.

Even then, I will have to pay them for the privilege.

Why do I have to pay taxes for services I don't use?

Because I live in a civilized country.

Where you a child that went to school?

So you did use that service.......

My orginal point was that this tax cut is not only for the wealthy despite what the Federal Liberals claim

msj · April 28, 2015

Where you a child that went to school?

So you did use that service.......

My orginal point was that this tax cut is not only for the wealthy despite what the Federal Liberals claim

Sure, and I have paid enough taxes in the past year or two to have covered that off so when do I get my tax cut?

Oh, right, this is a civilized country where I do pay for those who make less than me.

I'm ok with that.

Ash74 · April 28, 2015

Sure, and I have paid enough taxes in the past year or two to have covered that off so when do I get my tax cut?

Oh, right, this is a civilized country where I do pay for those who make less than me.

I'm ok with that.

In general so am I. But the burden is shifting and the cost of living is getting higher and higher. I have the same issues where there is more month than money and I see that this is becoming an issue with more and more people. I am bitter over being classified as rich when I am trying to find the money to pay for braces or getting my car fixed. Such is life. But having JT on the radio saying only the wealthy benefit form this tax cut is yet another reason I would never vote Liberal (I admit if I had a gun to my head I would still have a hard time voting for the lying thieves)

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

Ok. Using those statistics that is still for an individual. Yes I am the sole source of income in my household but it is what supports my family. The income splitting and child credit helps pay the bills.

Where you a child that went to school?

So you did use that service.......

My orginal point was that this tax cut is not only for the wealthy despite what the Federal Liberals claim

Your personal income is more than what half the households in Canada make. You're in the top 10%. I'm sorry if you don't "feel" rich, but you make more money than 90% of Canadians. What you do with your money is irrelevant to the discussion. If you're not saving, that's your choice. Saying you're not wealthy is just wrong though. And since 90% of Canadians make less than you, while you feel squeezed, how the heck do you think the average Canadian feels? Edited April 28, 2015 by cybercoma

Ash74 · April 28, 2015

Your personal income is more than what half the households in Canada make. You're in the top 10%. I'm sorry if you don't "feel" rich, but you make more money than 90% of Canadians. What you do with your money is irrelevant to the discussion. If you're not saving, that's your choice. Saying you're not wealthy is just wrong though

But if I made 50 grand and my wife made 40 grand would I still be considered rich?

Of course not.

cybercoma · April 28, 2015

But if I made 50 grand and my wife made 40 grand would I still be considered rich?

Of course not.

So tell your wife to get a job. It's your choice to support someone who's not working. Regardless, even if that was the case, you would still be making more than most households.