American, Cuban Relations

[Shady]

Even if they make it to the USA, they can be deported back with force. Elian Gonzalez as an example.

Yes, at the request of the Cuban government. Perhaps such requests should be declined.

[Big Guy]

Perhaps Cuba stops people from leaving because it is afraid that they will go to places like the USA and Canada where they can learn to fight and then come back to Cuba to do harm.

The same reason that Canada does not allow Canadians out of the country to go to various other parts of the world.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Big Guy

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes, at the request of the Cuban government. Perhaps such requests should be declined.

Think you boys have your wires crossed on Gonzalez. Had nothing to do with the Cuban government.

[Shady]

Think you boys have your wires crossed on Gonzalez. Had nothing to do with the Cuban government.

Yes it did. And the fact that his Cuban father had custodial rights.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes it did. And the fact that his Cuban father had custodial rights.

The father was granted the chance, by the INS, to petition for asylum for Elian, which he never did. So he was reunited with his father who eventually took him back to Cuba. Again, nothing to do with the gov. in Havana.

[Shady]

The father was granted the chance, by the INS, to petition for asylum for Elian, which he never did. So he was reunited with his father who eventually took him back to Cuba. Again, nothing to do with the gov. in Havana.

Yes it did. The Cuban government along with his father insisted the child be returned to Cuba.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes it did. The Cuban government along with his father insisted the child be returned to Cuba.

And had the father petitioned, he would still be in the US. If you need to blame someone, blame the father, or the USSC.

Edited April 13, 2015 by On Guard for Thee

[dre]

Cuba is a prison, in which its government forbids it's citizens to leave. Any bettering of relations should be predicated on the Cuban government respecting freedom and human rights of its citizens. Also international organizations like the Red Cross should once again be allowed in as they are in other countries.

Problem with that is that we trade with MOST of the worlds most repressive regimes, and the new order of things seems to favor engagement over isolationism. If we are going to trade with China, or Saudi Arabia, then I dont see a reason not to trade with Cuba.

Also from the standpoing of US interests... The Russians are starting to throw their weight around again and act a little more like the old USSR... Its in Americas national interest to develop their relationship with Cuba.

[Shady]

Problem with that is that we trade with MOST of the worlds most repressive regimes, and the new order of things seems to favor engagement over isolationism. If we are going to trade with China, or Saudi Arabia, then I dont see a reason not to trade with Cuba.

Also from the standpoing of US interests... The Russians are starting to throw their weight around again and act a little more like the old USSR... Its in Americas national interest to develop their relationship with Cuba.

We do trade with Cuba.

[Shady]

And had the father petitioned, he would still be in the US. If you need to blame someone, blame the father.

His father was a puppet of the Castro regime. They rewarded him and his son with quite a ransom of money and services.

[On Guard for Thee]

His father was a puppet of the Castro regime. They rewarded him and his son with quite a ransom of money and services.

I see the story is now changing. It started out as the Cuban gov somehow forcing his return back to Cuba. Once again, the sole responsibility lay with the father. He chose Cuba for whatever reason.

[guyser]

No that isn't true.

Yea its true.

My Cuban Dentist has his parents come up for months at a time. It was easier for all of them to deal with Cuba than w Canada but thats changed in recent years.

Ans his parents own a home in Cuba. Imagine that!

[GostHacked]

Yes, at the request of the Cuban government. Perhaps such requests should be declined.

I agree, but the US brought him back to Cuba, at gunpoint!

[Bryan]

No that isn't true.

It absolutely is. Have you ever been to Cuba? Talked to Cubans living on the island? Leaving Cuba (and returning) is surprisingly common.

I have several Cuban friends who have been travelling back and forth between Cuba and Canada to visit family for many years. I also know a couple who have residences in both countries and split the year between each. My parents hosted a Cuban family in their home for several months, then went back to Cuba with them, and stayed at their house in Cuba for several months. Getting permission for doing all that was not difficult at all from the Cuban side, it was Canada that threw up all manner of hoops to jump through.

Many Cubans travel overseas for education and employment purposes as well. And none of that includes the really big one: marry a foreigner, and both of them now get virtually automatic passage between Cuba and the spouse's home country.

[dre]

Cuba is a prison, in which its government forbids it's citizens to leave.

Good lord. Why do you even try? All it would take is the TINIEST bit of research and evidence to avoid you looking stupid and spouting this kind of crap on here. Have a bit of pride in yourself for god sakes.

As of January 13, 2013, all Cuban government-imposed travel restrictions and controls have been abolished. Since that date, any Cuban citizen, with a valid passport, can leave the country at will, without let or hindrance from the Cuban authorities. Visa requirements for Cuban citizens are administrative entry restrictions by the authorities of other states placed on citizens of Cuba. In 2014, Cuban citizens had visa-free or visa on arrival access to 61 countries and territories, ranking the Cuban passport 69th in the world.

[Shady]

Good lord. Why do you even try? All it would take is the TINIEST bit of research and evidence to avoid you looking stupid and spouting this kind of crap on here. Have a bit of pride in yourself for god sakes.

Yes, that must be true. That's why Cubans still risk their lives to float on rafts to get to American soil. It's why Cuban athletes still defect to play Major League Baseball. Seriously, do you swallow everything every repessive regime wants people to believe? Btw, got an eta of when the Red Cross will be allowed back into the country? Good lord.

[Shady]

I agree, but the US brought him back to Cuba, at gunpoint!

Are you suggesting that they should've ignored the wishes of the Cuban government and the fathers custodial rights?

[Shady]

Here's the biggest problem with normalizing relations. Cuba gives up nothing in return.

What does the United States get in return for this overture? Do we get normalization of the status of Guantanamo? Do we get our fugitives back so they can face justice? Does Cuba apologize for any of its support for terrorism? Does Cuba have to render justice or accountability for shooting down American civilian aircraft in international airspace, as it did in 1996? Do meaningful numbers of Cuban political prisoners get released? Does Cuban social and political repression ease one iota? Does Cuban support for radicalism and violence abroad cease? Does the Cuban communist grip on power and society relax even slightly? Does America receive Cuban support or even neutrality on any issue over which Cuba was previously opposed? Does Cuba concede a single item of strategic value or tactical value?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/13/what-the-us-got-from-cuba-deal-zilch.html

[On Guard for Thee]

Are you suggesting that they should've ignored the wishes of the Cuban government and the fathers custodial rights?

You still dont get it: even if there were some sort of chatter from Havana, the INS couldnt have cared less. They cared about the fathers custodial rights, and that is why they are living happily in Cuba.

[Shady]

You still dont get it: even if there were some sort of chatter from Havana, the INS couldnt have cared less. They cared about the fathers custodial rights, and that is why they are living happily in Cuba.

I don't know how they're living. I know how the Cuban regime wants us to think how they're living. Probably not like the average Cuban I'd guess.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't know how they're living. I know how the Cuban regime wants us to think how they're living. Probably not like the average Cuban I'd guess.

So you claim to know you dont know one thing you obviously dont know, but then you claim you do know something else you obviously dont know. A few holes in that whole approach dont you think...

[Bryan]

Here's the biggest problem with normalizing relations. Cuba gives up nothing in return.

Cuba is the one who has been giving in for over 50 years. It's time for the US to make amends for their economic terrorism.

[Bryan]

Yes, that must be true. That's why Cubans still risk their lives to float on rafts to get to American soil. It's why Cuban athletes still defect to play Major League Baseball.

Cubans float to the US because the US will not just grant them the visa outright. But, if they arrive unannounced, Cubans (and no other nationality) are granted immediate residency. Once they have that, they then can go back and forth between the two countries at will.

Cubans join MLB for the same reasons other pro athletes from all over the world leave home to go to the major leagues -- that's where the big money is.

Btw, got an eta of when the Red Cross will be allowed back into the country?

You mean the Red Cross that has a permanent Cuban office?

https://www.ifrc.org/en/what-we-do/where-we-work/americas/cuban-red-cross/

Or the international affiliates that they welcome when they need help after things like hurricanes?

http://www.redcross.ca/donate/your-donation-in-action/past-appeals/international/2008/hurricanes-2008/cuba-hurricanes-2008

[Moonlight Graham]

Obviously as usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. If the US and Cuba get close economic relations and open up trade , Cuba will get a lot more out of the deal than the US would. Cuba's economy and standard of living will undoubtedly increase dramatically.

Possibly. Both would benefit. The US would most definitely benefit since they have another market to sell their goods to, and can also import wanted Cuban products like cigars and, uhh, baseball players.

[GostHacked]

Are you suggesting that they should've ignored the wishes of the Cuban government and the fathers custodial rights?

Sure, why not! Land of the free to be deported at gunpoint.