Power from the pipes!

[jacee]

This is amazing!

http://inhabitat.com/portlands-water-pipes-are-the-newest-source-of-clean-energy/

Portland residents can now generate green electricity simply by turning on their water taps and flushing their toilets. Fast Company reports that the Oregon city is using a state-of-the art system to capture energy from water flowing through the citys pipelines. Small turbines installed inside the pipelines are turned by the flowing water, sending energy into a generator and off into the power grid.

[TimG]

Portland residents can now generate green electricity simply by turning on their water taps and flushing their toilets.

You can't get something for nothing. It takes energy to pressurize the water that is sent through the pipes. If some of this energy is siphoned off to produce electricity you will have to create even more energy to pressurize the water.

This is just another scam where some rent seeker is looking for free money from stupid politicians. There is no way that such a system could provide a net benefit.

[On Guard for Thee]

Hells bells why didnt I think of that! A mini hydro system, both on the way in, and out of the house, and right under our noses all this time. I suppose you would have to not over do it and slow flow rates too much but it seems like an idea worth pursuing.

[Big Guy]

There is reference to only water flowing due to gravity. Maybe the water it is referring to is the "black water" flowing towards sewage plants. That may be effective but I understand that there might be a few "floaters" in that water. Not sure how these "floaters" would effect the blades.

[eyeball]

You can't get something for nothing. It takes energy to pressurize the water that is sent through the pipes. If some of this energy is siphoned off to produce electricity you will have to create even more energy to pressurize the water.

This is just another scam where some rent seeker is looking for free money from stupid politicians. There is no way that such a system could provide a net benefit.

Of course it can. They're not trying to get something for nothing at all, they're simply trying to reduce the overall net cost.

[Guest]

Why not put little turbines on the axles of cars, such that as the wheel turns, the power to make the car go is generated by the turbines. Then any excess could be sold to the national grid.

[TimG]

Of course it can. They're not trying to get something for nothing at all, they're simply trying to reduce the overall net cost.

As I explained: the system is built to work on water pressure. If you reduce the pressure by creating electricity you screw up the system. That said, the system will have excess pressure in some places and you could siphon a small amount of power without screwing it up too badly, however, there is no way such a system would recover the costs of installing and maintaining it. The only possible outcome is a net increase in costs.

The entire concept is a scam designed to fool idiots how have no comprehension of how power systems work.

Edited February 22, 2015 by TimG

[eyeball]

The system is clearly just as based on gravity.

The only hitch is that the turbines can only produce power where water is naturally flowing downward with gravity.

Why they describe the benefit as a hitch is a bit of a mystery but all the same it's pretty clear how the benefit from gravity offsets the original cost of pressurizing the water.

[TimG]

Why they describe the benefit as a hitch is a bit of a mystery but all the same it's pretty clear how the benefit from gravity offsets the original cost of pressurizing the water.

Ever see those big towers that hold water? Guess what? They use gravity as the energy source to provide the water pressure. Another source of energy is consumed when the water is pumped into the towers before it is distributed. Any attempt to remove energy from the system reduces the pressure and therefore reduces the efficiency of the system. Take too much out and the system will start to malfunction. There is no 'free energy' in a well designed water system. Edited February 22, 2015 by TimG

[eyeball]

There sure as hell is wherever you can take advantage of gravity.

[TimG]

There sure as hell is wherever you can take advantage of gravity.

And where would that be? Any place where water in pipes flows by gravity the system is designed to use that energy. Edited February 23, 2015 by TimG

[eyeball]

And where would that be? Any place where water in pipes flows by gravity the system is designed to use that energy.

/faceplam

[eyeball]

The entire concept is a scam designed to fool idiots how have no comprehension of how power systems work.

If its a scam involving fraudulent information and public money why aren't people going to jail?

[TimG]

/faceplam

I take that as an admission that you have no clue how these systems work and you are just a sucker begging to be scammed.

If its a scam involving fraudulent information and public money why aren't people going to jail?

Good question. But the fact that the liberals were re-elected in Ontario despite pissing away a billion cancelling gas plants should answer that. Edited February 23, 2015 by TimG

[WWWTT]

Ever see those big towers that hold water? Guess what? They use gravity as the energy source to provide the water pressure. Another source of energy is consumed when the water is pumped into the towers before it is distributed. Any attempt to remove energy from the system reduces the pressure and therefore reduces the efficiency of the system. Take too much out and the system will start to malfunction. There is no 'free energy' in a well designed water system.

There sure as hell is wherever you can take advantage of gravity.

In my opinion you are both right.

I believe this is an energy recovery program.

From that little amount of energy recovered, I doubt it will ever recover the installation cost.

Also there is the potential for problems. A plumbing drainage system was never designed to produce hydro electricity.

I remember hearing the same crap about geo thermal in southern Ontario.

Way too expensive to ever be realistic!

WWWTT

[eyeball]

In my opinion you are both right.

Tim has painted himself into a corner he can't budge from due his undying disdain for anything green - a doctrinal demand of the Church of Economic Alarmism.

The bottom line is that offsetting a cost is a benefit and in the case of Portland's water system gravity achieves this for free.

[Keepitsimple]

If its a scam involving fraudulent information and public money why aren't people going to jail?

It's not so much a scam as it is an over-enthusiastic report of what amounts to little more than a gimmick. As the article says: "The only hitch is that the turbines can only produce power where water is naturally flowing downward with gravity.". And as Tim has already stated, in most cases, that downward gravity has already been designed into the system. Take those water towers - if its feeding pipes where 50% are moving downhill, you don't need to have a 100 foot high water tower - perhaps 60 feet would suffice. Throw this novel idea in with the perpetual motion machine - you don't get something for nothing - unless there is excess pressure in the system that you can draw on. And no, you can't just build a 500 foot water tower......because you'd need a lot of power to pump the water up there

[WWWTT]

Tim has painted himself into a corner he can't budge from due his undying disdain for anything green - a doctrinal demand of the Church of Economic Alarmism.

The bottom line is that offsetting a cost is a benefit and in the case of Portland's water system gravity achieves this for free.

Possibly?

Not saying it's impossible. Not saying it's going to be cheap either.

Just saying that I have seen these ideas fail before because the start up cost are through the freekin roof!

Maybe this one is more reasonable? I can't say for sure.

Hey if it is, all the power to Portland! And if so, maybe it will spread to other jurisdictions.

But don't hold your breathe.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

It's not so much a scam as it is an over-enthusiastic report of what amounts to little more than a gimmick. As the article says: "The only hitch is that the turbines can only produce power where water is naturally flowing downward with gravity.".

There could be a practical system where the rain water is used to spin turbines to produce electricity.

Perhaps on a new installation?

But I can't see an retrofit ever being profitable.

WWWTT

[eyeball]

And as Tim has already stated, in most cases, that downward gravity has already been designed into the system.

Obviously there must be cases where it wasn't designed and now they're filling in the gaps.

I would think there are even more benefits to be realized by installing these devices on the discharge side of the system where free gravity is probably as abundant as the water flowing through it.

[TimG]

There could be a practical system where the rain water is used to spin turbines to produce electricity.

Run of river hydro installations are more efficient way to do this. The idea that an useful amount of power could come from turbines attached to house hold rain spouts is laughable.

[eyeball]

Attach them to high rise down spouts instead.

Run of river hydro installations all too often kill fish increasing the need to compensate fishing communities whose economies are ruined.

[TimG]

Run of river hydro installations all too often kill fish increasing the need to compensate fishing communities whose economies are ruined.

Typical econut fantasy thinking. If a power source actually works you are against it. If it can't possibly work you are for it.

[On Guard for Thee]

Typical econut fantasy thinking. If a power source actually works you are against it. If it can't possibly work you are for it.

How the hell do you think hydro actually works. Water moving along by the force of gravity is how. Nobody said you put the turbine on a household drainpipe. Where do you think your household drain goes, it goes along with your neighbours and when you add that all up you have a lot of water moving by the force of gravity. The same o the way in. If yor tap water pressure dropped from 50 psi to 40 because the mainline was driving a turbine, would you really notice much, no. Of course you seem to be totally anti green so you will find whatever reason to keep those smokestacks belching.

[eyeball]

Typical econut fantasy thinking. If a power source actually works you are against it. If it can't possibly work you are for it.

Typical economic-nuttery thinking. Like your nonsense over lefties complaining about saving a few bucks at the gas station in the wake of cheaper oil.

Would it be just as fantastical for me to suggest when a power source wrecks an ecosystem that's essential for the livelihood of someone like me you experience pleasure?