cybercoma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Posted March 17, 2015 Boy, the politically correct are in an intellectually bankrupt frenzy on this issue. Oh yep, yep, objecting to the symbol of hateful misogyny, murderous homophobia and violent religious extremism is EXACTLY the same as wanting death camps! I congratulate you on your perceptiveness! What a shrewd fellow you are! It's a pity that intelligent discussion is so beyond some people. It's sad to them sitting there by the wayside hurling epithets and insults for want of an ability to think, analyze positions and talk in anything remotely approaching a mature fashion. Quit with the name calling and insults. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Quit with the name calling and insults. Pretty much all hes got. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Boy, the politically correct are in an intellectually bankrupt frenzy on this issue. Oh yep, yep, objecting to the symbol of hateful misogyny, murderous homophobia and violent religious extremism is EXACTLY the same as wanting death camps! I congratulate you on your perceptiveness! What a shrewd fellow you are! It's a pity that intelligent discussion is so beyond some people. It's sad to them sitting there by the wayside hurling epithets and insults for want of an ability to think, analyze positions and talk in anything remotely approaching a mature fashion. Its the objections to xenophobia you seem to have the problem understanding. (Note I stayed away from the use of your intellectually bankrupt type comments) Quote
Argus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Its the objections to xenophobia you seem to have the problem understanding. (Note I stayed away from the use of your intellectually bankrupt type comments) Yes, no doubt you'd feel the need to stay away from THAT. Amongst the politically correct, any kind of judgement which is in any way unflattering towards any group they perceive as a minority is identical to xenophobia, Naziism, fascism, Hitler worshiping and white supremacy. It's a knee jerk thing and they don't even have to engage what passes for a brain to start spitting out the epithets. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Yes, no doubt you'd feel the need to stay away from THAT. Amongst the politically correct, any kind of judgement which is in any way unflattering towards any group they perceive as a minority is identical to xenophobia, Naziism, fascism, Hitler worshiping and white supremacy. It's a knee jerk thing and they don't even have to engage what passes for a brain to start spitting out the epithets. I guess bigots dont have much need for a brain. Where do their thoughts come from I wonder, the guts maybe... Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 What I can't understand is the lack of an argument. It's like, if people say bigot, or xenophobe often enough, the uncomfortable facts just go away and don't need to be confronted. The niqab represents the oppression of women. That's a fact. Some women say they wear it freely, and they should be allowed to. Even in a citizenship ceremony. That's my opinion. Again, one is a fact, the other is an opinion. Some might have a different opinion, but no-one can have a different fact. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 What I can't understand is the lack of an argument. It's like, if people say bigot, or xenophobe often enough, the uncomfortable facts just go away and don't need to be confronted. The niqab represents the oppression of women. That's a fact. Some women say they wear it freely, and they should be allowed to. Even in a citizenship ceremony. That's my opinion. Again, one is a fact, the other is an opinion. Some might have a different opinion, but no-one can have a different fact. Which is the fact and which the opinion? Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Which is the fact and which the opinion? But Bob, it's written right there! Having a beer? Edited March 17, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 What I can't understand is the lack of an argument. It's like, if people say bigot, or xenophobe often enough, the uncomfortable facts just go away and don't need to be confronted. The niqab represents the oppression of women. That's a fact. Some women say they wear it freely, and they should be allowed to. Even in a citizenship ceremony. That's my opinion. Again, one is a fact, the other is an opinion. Some might have a different opinion, but no-one can have a different fact. You get the post of the day for machinations of contradictions with this one, Id say. Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Please explain. I merely said I supported the right of a person to make a choice. I don't have to agree with the choice. Which bits, specifically, do you take issue with? Edited March 17, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 You get the post of the day for machinations of contradictions with this one, Id say. Saying bigot or xenophobe doesnt make bigotry of xenophobia go away, unfortunately. And how can someone do something freely and at the same time be oppressed by doing what they just chose. Its fairly easy to explain. Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) I didn't say that saying bigot or xenophobe made bigotry or xenophobia go away. I said that it seems like people think that if they say those words often enough, uncomfortable facts go away. I didn't say the woman wearing it was being oppressed. I said it is a symbol of the oppression of women. I said I supported her choice. I support choice in many things, even those that might not seem to be wise. Because choice matters. I'd like the choice whether or not to wear certain garments to extend to all. Edited March 17, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
Smallc Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Please explain. I merely said I supported the right of a person to make a choice. I don't have to agree with the choice. Which bits, specifically, do you take issue with? I have exactly the same position as you. I think it's far too much nuance for the racist and bigot crew though. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Kind of difficult to characterize obvious contradiction as nuance. Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Kind of difficult to characterize obvious contradiction as nuance. Like I said, there is no contradiction. Are you suggesting that anyone who makes a choice in life must do so only if you agree with their choice? Or should I say, have the right to make that choice only if you agree with it? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Like I said, there is no contradiction. Are you suggesting that anyone who makes a choice in life must do so only if you agree with their choice? Or should I say, have the right to make that choice only if you agree with it? Suggesting someone who doesnt agree indicates they have no understanding of nuance only backfires. Quote
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 That doesn't make any sense to me. It is possible I have my wires crossed. What is the obvious contradiction that is kind of difficult to characterize as nuance? Quote
cybercoma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Posted March 17, 2015 The niqab represents the oppression of women. That's a fact You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. We have accounts of women who wear the niqab. They've explained what it represents to them, what the meaning is behind it. You interpret it as oppression and in some cases it absolutely is, like in societies where women are forced against their will to wear them. However, those who feel empowered by it and choose to wear it as a representation of their faith and identity are not being oppressed by it. They're oppressed by being forced against their will to take it off in public. Perhaps you can see the common denominator here. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Posted March 17, 2015 I have exactly the same position as you. I think it's far too much nuance for the racist and bigot crew though. Oh yes. You're just so intelligent that people have a really difficult time understanding your culturally insensitive and bigoted arguments. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. We have accounts of women who wear the niqab. They've explained what it represents to them, what the meaning is behind it. You interpret it as oppression and in some cases it absolutely is, like in societies where women are forced against their will to wear them. However, those who feel empowered by it and choose to wear it as a representation of their faith and identity are not being oppressed by it. They're oppressed by being forced against their will to take it off in public. Perhaps you can see the common denominator here.Correct.So the fact is this individual chooses to wear it and the opinion is your view on the matter. My beer goggles weren't on. My opinion could be I think limey squatters can't wear Sunderland jerseys to their citizenship ceremonies as it represents bad decision making......however I don't expect that to happen. Quote
Smallc Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Oh yes. You're just so intelligent that people have a really difficult time understanding your culturally insensitive and bigoted arguments. Yea, you're way above insults. Quote
Smallc Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. We have accounts of women who wear the niqab. They've explained what it represents to them, what the meaning is behind it. You interpret it as oppression and in some cases it absolutely is, like in societies where women are forced against their will to wear them. However, those who feel empowered by it and choose to wear it as a representation of their faith and identity are not being oppressed by it. They're oppressed by being forced against their will to take it off in public. Perhaps you can see the common denominator here. It's obvious from this you have no idea what he actually said and are responding with knee jerk outrage. Quote
Black Dog Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 It's obvious from this you have no idea what he actually said and are responding with knee jerk outrage. He claimed it is a fact that the niqab represents the oppression of women. That's an opinion. Quote
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