Assisted Suicide in Canada.

[webc5]

JT is expected to ask the SC for an extension of 6 months. I wonder if they will give it to him.

[Smeelious]

JT is expected to ask the SC for an extension of 6 months. I wonder if they will give it to him.

I suspect they would, and I suspect the government will ask for another extension...

[Smallc]

I suspect they would, and I suspect the government will ask for another extension...

I suspect they'll draft legislation in that 6 months. They don't have enough time between mid December and February.

[ToadBrother]

I suspect they would, and I suspect the government will ask for another extension...

I think we should see what they do in the extended period of time they have. I suspect some part of that time will be spent in consulting the Provinces, as these issues also involve end-of-life matters like DNRs, living wills and the like.

[Canada_First]

Meh, if people are that weak that they want to kill themselves. Good, let them do it and get it over with so the rest of us can do the important work of running the world. I just don't think a Doctor can do it or should be forced to do it because of their oath. Maybe we can set up killing floors in hospitals where those who want to die can be killed there then have their organs and body parts immediately harvested before being incinerated on site. Their burning bodies can then be used to heat the hospital or to fuel electricity.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Canada_First

[Guest]

Meh, if people are that weak that they want to kill themselves. Good, let them do it and get it over with so the rest of us can do the important work of running the world. I just don't think a Doctor can do it or should be forced to do it because of their oath. Maybe we can set up killing floors in hospitals where those who want to die can be killed there then have their organs and body parts immediately harvested before being incinerated on site. Their burning bodies can then be used to heat the hospital or to fuel electricity.

All good ideas, but I think Doctors should be allowed to help if they want.

[Canada_First]

All good ideas, but I think Doctors should be allowed to help if they want.

What about their oath, to cause no pain? Its the same reason hey don't take part in executions in the US. I think they could lose their license to practice maybe. I don't know as I'm not an expert.

[On Guard for Thee]

Meh, if people are that weak that they want to kill themselves. Good, let them do it and get it over with so the rest of us can do the important work of running the world. I just don't think a Doctor can do it or should be forced to do it because of their oath. Maybe we can set up killing floors in hospitals where those who want to die can be killed there then have their organs and body parts immediately harvested before being incinerated on site. Their burning bodies can then be used to heat the hospital or to fuel electricity.

People don't usually want to kill themselves. They may do so when they are being killed by a disease which is terminal, and painful. Do you realize just how ignorant, callous, arrogant comments like yours are? Thank god you don't have anything to do with running the world.

[Guest]

What about their oath, to cause no pain? Its the same reason hey don't take part in executions in the US. I think they could lose their license to practice maybe. I don't know as I'm not an expert.

I think their oath is to cause no harm. Not killing someone when they want you to do so is definitely harmful to them, so I think they would be okay.

[ToadBrother]

People don't usually want to kill themselves. They may do so when they are being killed by a disease which is terminal, and painful. Do you realize just how ignorant, callous, arrogant comments like yours are? Thank god you don't have anything to do with running the world.

And the Conservatives wonder why they lost.

[Canada_First]

I think their oath is to cause no harm. Not killing someone when they want you to do so is definitely harmful to them, so I think they would be okay.

Killing someone is definitely doing them harm.

Like I said I'm in favor if having a killing floor in hospitals for all those suicidals. Let's kill them. Harvest what we want and scrap the rest. We can do a lot of good with the organs and body parts. Lots of people in need of new liver lungs hearts etc...

[Canada_First]

People don't usually want to kill themselves. They may do so when they are being killed by a disease which is terminal, and painful. Do you realize just how ignorant, callous, arrogant comments like yours are? Thank god you don't have anything to do with running the world.

Not usually. You're right. I didn't try to imply otherwise.

We have a huge shortage of body parts in this country. Transplant lists are very long. So why not remove the BS counselling and all that. If someone wants to kill themselves just sign this paper here and lie down here. Injection. Harvest. Scrap body. Next. No need for people to slit wrists. Jump off stuff. Etc. Nice clean and orderly.

[Guest]

Killing someone is definitely doing them harm.

Like I said I'm in favor if having a killing floor in hospitals for all those suicidals. Let's kill them. Harvest what we want and scrap the rest. We can do a lot of good with the organs and body parts. Lots of people in need of new liver lungs hearts etc...

There are levels of harm. Not killing someone who wants to die is a lot more harmful than killing them.

Edited October 30, 2015 by bcsapper

[Guest]

Not usually. You're right. I didn't try to imply otherwise.

We have a huge shortage of body parts in this country. Transplant lists are very long. So why not remove the BS counselling and all that. If someone wants to kill themselves just sign this paper here and lie down here. Injection. Harvest. Scrap body. Next. No need for people to slit wrists. Jump off stuff. Etc. Nice clean and orderly.

I thought you said no Doctors! Nurses then, to give the injection? As long as it's a medical professional who knows what they are doing then that's fine.

[angrypenguin]

Do the people here who are against this endure a life of chronic pain? I'm as blue tory as they come but...living the life of chronic pain that I do...

I'm for assisted suicide. I don't even need a physician, just tell me what button to push...say...instructions from a nurse.

[Hal 9000]

People don't usually want to kill themselves. They may do so when they are being killed by a disease which is terminal, and painful. Do you realize just how ignorant, callous, arrogant comments like yours are? Thank god you don't have anything to do with running the world.

Shouldn't we at least have a common understanding of the words "disease", "terminal" and "pain" before accepting assisted suicide.

[CITIZEN_2015]

If someone is given a few months to live and is assured that he or she will die soon and the rest would be with severe pain what the hell the government has to say about it if he or she decides to terminate the pain and suffering??? Get the damn government out of my personal life and decisions.

[Guest]

Shouldn't we at least have a common understanding of the words "disease", "terminal" and "pain" before accepting assisted suicide.

We should have an understanding of the words "want", "choice" and "autonomy". If we understand those, the others don't matter.

[Big Guy]

Pulling the tubes, ventilators and stimulators to allow for a desired death is one thing. To actively do something to cause a desired death is another thing.

I know that there are many doctors who would be very uncomfortable in assisting a suicide - someone who needs assistance to kill themselves. Perhaps the solution would be to create or build a suicide "machine". The unit would be set up to administer a lethal injection of some painless drug but could be activated by a minimal action - from, pressing a button to blinking an eye. Anyone would then set the machine up with the intravenous attached to the patient and then everybody leaves the room and the individual is in charge of their choice to die.

[Guest]

Pulling the tubes, ventilators and stimulators to allow for a desired death is one thing. To actively do something to cause a desired death is another thing.

I know that there are many doctors who would be very uncomfortable in assisting a suicide - someone who needs assistance to kill themselves. Perhaps the solution would be to create or build a suicide "machine". The unit would be set up to administer a lethal injection of some painless drug but could be activated by a minimal action - from, pressing a button to blinking an eye. Anyone would then set the machine up with the intravenous attached to the patient and then everybody leaves the room and the individual is in charge of their choice to die.

Sure, I think the mechanism is secondary to the will. We as a society have to allow people the choice to go when they want to. There is no reason not to, other than perhaps one motivated by religious beliefs, which ought not to enter into it.

[On Guard for Thee]

Shouldn't we at least have a common understanding of the words "disease", "terminal" and "pain" before accepting assisted suicide.

I think we have those understandings now and have had for some time.

[ToadBrother]

Pulling the tubes, ventilators and stimulators to allow for a desired death is one thing. To actively do something to cause a desired death is another thing.

I know that there are many doctors who would be very uncomfortable in assisting a suicide - someone who needs assistance to kill themselves. Perhaps the solution would be to create or build a suicide "machine". The unit would be set up to administer a lethal injection of some painless drug but could be activated by a minimal action - from, pressing a button to blinking an eye. Anyone would then set the machine up with the intravenous attached to the patient and then everybody leaves the room and the individual is in charge of their choice to die.

And what happens if someone does not even have that ability? Besides, this looks like little more than artifice, and can't really solve the problem. Someone ultimately is responsible for such a machine, and thus they become responsible for the person's death. Beyond that, what if the machine malfunctions? Assisted suicide is still ultimately a medical procedure.

The more reasonable solution is for doctors who feel morally or ethically unable to assist in a suicide not to do so, and for some sort of a referral system be set up in such cases so the doctor in question isn't forced to refer a patient desiring assisted suicide. There are clearly a lot of doctors who do not object to the concept of assisted suicide.

[jbg]

And what happens if someone does not even have that ability? Besides, this looks like little more than artifice, and can't really solve the problem. Someone ultimately is responsible for such a machine, and thus they become responsible for the person's death. Beyond that, what if the machine malfunctions? Assisted suicide is still ultimately a medical procedure.

The more reasonable solution is for doctors who feel morally or ethically unable to assist in a suicide not to do so, and for some sort of a referral system be set up in such cases so the doctor in question isn't forced to refer a patient desiring assisted suicide. There are clearly a lot of doctors who do not object to the concept of assisted suicide.

I think these are family decisions, in consultation with doctors. I don't think they should be politicized.

[webc5]

The AG just asked the SCoC for a 6 month extension.

[Rue]

JBG I concur that such issues should be done within the confidentiality of the family and their doctor.

Oregon, Washington and Vermont, if you take a look at their laws, this is a proposal many in Canada and other states are looking at as well.

The complexity of this issue is that with terminally ill patients some are competent to make their own decisions, others may not be and so the law has to protect the incompetent or vulnerable and in that sense assure the disabled community any law will not facilitate killing disabled people without their consent. That's a huge issue for them.

To neutralize the religious issue, the use of an opt out clause or specific wording can make it clear no one has to agree to die and if they gave instructions to stay alive its honoured.

I would think its safe to say we do not have an issue as to people being killed without their consent in Canada framed as euthanasia by the killer.

Our most famous case the Latimer case was never portrayed by Mr. Latimer as anything but a mercy killing which is a different issue.

In the Latimer case his daughter had a disease which caused her bones to grow into one another at every joint causing over-whelming pain and the doctors would constantly break her bones to prevent them from fusing and shattering slowly. This caused overwhelming pain. The child also had cerebral palsy, the i.q. of a 6 month year old and a faulty digestive system requiring a permanent feeding tube entering her body through a continually infected ulcerous hole because of lack of immunities in her body. She was also slowly starving to death.

The father went to over 120 doctors pleading they put her out of her misery. Everyone refused so this farmer brought her home, put her in his truck and connected the exhaust to the truck cabin to let her die peacefully in her sleep from the exhaust as her favourite music was on and her Dad stood outside the cab smiling.

This man was charged with homicide which he never denied. The jury asked if they found him guilty could the Judge still make a decision not to put him in jail. The trial Judge said yes. He was on that condition found guilty and the Judge sentenced him to life. The defence appealed all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada with the deciding vote finding him guilty by a devout Catholic.

The Chief Justice and another Supreme Court Judge who went on to become Chief Justice found him not guilty. That case typecast Latimer as a demon by religious and disability groups allowed to intervene and depict Latimer's motivation as being selfish.

This man refused early release 4 times because early release would have required him to apologize and he would not.

He was eventually released being given a far longer sentence that murderers, rapists, even Kadr the terrorist.

This man's treatment was a travesty and it brought to the forefront the weakness of our criminal system with the terminally ill but that is not to be confused with euthanasia.

Euthanasia the dying person initiates the death process.

Now in one case we had I discussed in a past post, a man dying of cancer in Halifax down to skin and bones said goodbye to his family, did his prayers and had a do not rescusitate order.

Out when the breathing tube and he could not die being one of the few people to begin choking. He screamed for assistance to die and the ICU doctor gave him an injection of morphine and he died and she was charged with homicide.

Half the city called her a murderer the other half a saint. The family stood by her. Disabled groups and religious groups called her a murderer.

The brilliant Judge avoided a trial. He said in the past week numerous morphine injections had been given to the patient so it was impossible to say if the last needle or its accumulation with other injections prior to it she did not give caused him to stop breathing.

This doctor as all doctors do faces a conviction of homicide if they assist a patient die in dire straits. This is because the current Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons guidelines says a doctor must vigorously treat pain with medication, but if it kills the patient they are on their own if charged with homicide.

This is why the law is being discussed.

A senate report on how to reform laws in this kind of scenario has sat for over 10 years collecting dust and it actually is full of very germaine constructive suggestions.

As our population ages we need to deal with thousands of patients who through improved technology live with hopeless painful situations with no chance of recovery and for them we owe them the right to dignity and the time to say its time to move on.

This should not be confused with governments asking or the right to decide. That is not what is being asked. Its the individual wanting to initiate the request not government.

The current Attorney General is in charge of this issue. Its so complex an issue it will require a minimum of a year just to state what the legal issues are to address.