Chinese Schools - The Best, but really The Worst

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/nov/20/myth-chinese-super-schools/

In the review of this book "Myth of the Chinese Super Schools", the author makes the case that the Chinese system, while producing the highest scores, produces the worst results. While the American system produced the worst scores of 11 countries in the 1960s, they dominated the world economy, research and so on.

But China itself seems to have bought the American myth that their scores mean their system is better:

China is trapped by Western praise. Its education leaders, Zhao writes, would like to break free of the exam-based orthodoxy that limits creativity but they dare not abandon the methods that produce the results that Westerners admire.

Having read this thoughtful article, I'm still in favour of testing but not worrying about the overall results as much.

And my admiration for the American system continues, especially the older version of the American system known as the Canadian system.

[TimG]

But China itself seems to have bought the American myth that their scores mean their system is better:

Two points:

1) There is no single US system. You have the system which the upper and upper middle class get. And the system the poor and the lower middle class get. The system the lower class gets in the US is abysmal. The upper class system is not so bad. Average the two and you get a misleading number.

2) Parent and peer attitude towards academic success matters. Asians often excel in US schools because they have the family pressure/support which motivates them to succeed. In US lower class schools academic success is often belittled. It should come as no surprise that academic achievement drops.

In Canada 1) does not really apply but 2) does depending on the neighborhood.

Edited November 4, 2014 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. "system" is also very attractive to international students and their families. China, India, and South Korea account for nearly half of these foreign students:

The United States enrolled the highest number of international students in its history during the 2012-2013 school year, welcoming 819,644 undergraduate and graduate students to colleges and universities throughout the country, according to a report released today.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/11/11/us-sees-record-number-of-international-college-students

[cybercoma]

The problem in the United States cannot be generalized by talking about their "system" of education. The United States has multiple systems, many of them failing their students. There is a vast disparity in the quality of education American students receive that is obfuscated by generalizing about education across the entire country.

[cybercoma]

To see what I mean, you can look into the PISA scores and notice that the United States has a wider range of scores, while other similar countries, i.e., G7, have a narrower distribution of scores (and a higher average at that).

[Michael Hardner]

The United States has multiple systems, many of them failing their students.

There was a guest on The Daily Show a few months back that was talking about the bottom line of the education system, and remarking that they are at historically low illiteracy, drop outs and the like...

[cybercoma]

There was a guest on The Daily Show a few months back that was talking about the bottom line of the education system, and remarking that they are at historically low illiteracy, drop outs and the like...

While that's true, their more successful schools are more successful than other nations. It's completely delusional to look at education in the US and somehow conclude that all children have an equal opportunity. It largely comes down to being lucky enough to have been born into a family that lives in the right county. Kids who find themselves in poorly equipped schools and fall behind on literacy by the time they're 9 years old are likely to never recover and are far more at risk for dropping out later, amongst a slew of other socio-behavioural, psychological, and academic issues. And the fix is simple. The US already has some of the best schools in the world, they just need to work harder at pulling the most impoverished ones out of the sorry state of affairs that they are in. This would dramatically boost their averages and put their education rankings at a level you would expect for one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

[Michael Hardner]

While that's true, their more successful schools are more successful than other nations. It's completely delusional to look at education in the US and somehow conclude that all children have an equal opportunity.

Equal opportunity is hard to manage, but if they are improving at the basics then that's something.

Keep in mind that you can't easily separate the education system with the huge social problems that affect some communities.

It largely comes down to being lucky enough to have been born into a family that lives in the right county. Kids who find themselves in poorly equipped schools and fall behind on literacy by the time they're 9 years old are likely to never recover and are far more at risk for dropping out later, amongst a slew of other socio-behavioural, psychological, and academic issues. And the fix is simple. The US already has some of the best schools in the world, they just need to work harder at pulling the most impoverished ones out of the sorry state of affairs that they are in. This would dramatically boost their averages and put their education rankings at a level you would expect for one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

I don't think it's simple. They had a lot of people working on a school board in New Jersey and the problems were complex and political. It's not even the averages that they need to boost, but the basics at the bottom end.

I'll try to find you the article about the New Jersey board.

[Michael Hardner]

Cory Booker, Chris Christie, and Mark Zuckerberg had a plan to reform Newark’s schools. They got an education.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled?currentPage=all

It's an excellent article in that it rises above politics to a degree to look at problems where they lay. It's admirable for people with money, energy, and compassion to try to jump in to solve a problem. That's the first step. The next step is to think about how to solve it, taking into account all the complexities all the stakeholders.

All the money in the world still can't fix some things. But then again, sometimes you can solve problems with the flick of a switch. There's something fascinating and very human about it.

[overthere]

The US undoubtedly has most of the best universities in the world, schools that routinely crank out Nobel prize winning graduates.

[bjre]

The US undoubtedly has most of the best universities in the world, schools that routinely crank out Nobel prize winning graduates.

1. The reason why US has many able people is because US warmongers bring so many wars to everywhere in the world, and rob so many wealth from all over the world, so that US is a place that has more money and have relative peaceful environment. So that too many immigrant who have ability go there. Lot of Nobel prize winners did not receive early education from the US system. At the same time, the US system generates the highest jail rate in the world.

2. Nobel price has political consideration, and it requires nomination that need social network. It is a system with bias.

3. The Chinese education system makes GDP increase more than 7% for 30 years which neither US system nor Canada system can do. And the Chinese education system makes China most wealthy nation in the world for thousands of years until the un-civilized westerners break it with war, they also makes native American civilization disappear except some very few things such as chocolate, potato, tomato.

4. Chinese system is a fair system; anyone can be a leader from 5th century no matter how poor he was. Jiang Zeming and Hu Jintao and many others are all start from lowest class.

[overthere]

The US has most of the very best universities in the world, China has pretty much none of them. It is a lot easier to steal technology than invent it.

[bjre]

The US has most of the very best universities in the world, China has pretty much none of them. It is a lot easier to steal technology than invent it.

Yes, China has thieves. But US has more thieves. US has the higher crime rate than China. US has much more patent thieves than China.

Only from German between 1945 and 1948, US has stolen countless patents.

Whatever US blame any other nations, US did it itself.

According to World Intellectual Property Indicators ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators )

China has 652,777 patent applications in 2012, higher than US. And it is still in increasing.

[Michael Hardner]

China has 652,777 patent applications in 2012, higher than US. And it is still in increasing.

bjre - you seem to have missed this in the original post:

China has a problem, however, that is seldom discussed: cheating and fraud. When the government rewards the production of patents for new products, the number of patents soars, but most of them are worthless. High school students get extra points for college admission if they receive patents for their proposals. Zhao points to a school where a ninth-grade class had received over twenty patents; the school as a whole had registered over five hundred patents in three years. Even middle school students had collected national patents. A large proportion of these patents, writes Zhao, are “junk patents” or demonstrations of “small cleverness.” When the government requires the publication of scientific papers for professional advancement, the number of scientific papers increases dramatically, but a high proportion of those papers are fraudulent. Zhao says there is a billion-dollar industry in China devoted to writing “scientific” papers for sale to students and professionals who lack the research skills to write their own.

The quality of China’s patents and research publications, Zhao says, is “abysmal,” because of the circumstances under which they are produced and the ubiquity of fraud.

[bjre]

bjre - you seem to have missed this in the original post:

Did you miss what I just said:

-- Whatever US blame any other nations, US did it itself.

A simple search US patent can easily find some:

Ladies Underwear with Calendar (US Patent 5606748)

Anti-eating face mask (US Patent 4344424)

Forehead Rest For Urinals (US Patent 6681419)

...