Tories to increase immigration levels for election year

[Hal 9000]

By allowing parents to re-enter the workforce where they pay taxes on payroll.

So, we pay what 50$ per child so their parents can go to a minimum wage job and pay 20% income tax on 80-100$. No, it's unsustainable and ripe with abuse.

We'd be better off just raising the minimum wage

[On Guard for Thee]

So, we pay what 50$ per child so their parents can go to a minimum wage job and pay 20% income tax on 80-100$. No%C it's unsustainable and ripe with abuse.

We'd be better off just raising the minimum wage

I'm sure you have done the math to substantiate your funny numbers?

[Hal 9000]

Look, if you want the middle class to pay for the lower class...fair enough, don't try and sell it as a money maker or break even deal.

[On Guard for Thee]

Look, if you want the middle class to pay for the lower class...fair enough, don't try and sell it as a money maker or break even deal.

People working pay tax and spend money of their own. If you don't get that as well, fair enough.

[jacee]

Look, if you want the middle class to pay for the lower class...fair enough, don't try and sell it as a money maker or break even deal.

No we want the rich to pay.

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[Hal 9000]

People working pay tax and spend money of their own. If you don't get that as well, fair enough.

Do they pay more taxes than what we'd pay out to care for their kids? If someone has 2 kids, we'd pay out more to a daycare then they'd make - let alone taxes they'd pay. That might even be true for just one child depending on the parents job. And...that's only assuming that this person actually gets a job.

Fact is; financially, the taxpayers would be better off just paying welfare moms 3 or 4 hundred bucks per month more and saying, just stay home.

[Hal 9000]

No we want the rich to pay.

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Now who's trying to be Ms. Funny!

[On Guard for Thee]

Do they pay more taxes than what we'd pay out to care for their kids? If someone has 2 kids, we'd pay out more to a daycare then they'd make - let alone taxes they'd pay. That might even be true for just one child depending on the parents job. And...that's only assuming that this person actually gets a job.

Fact is; financially, the taxpayers would be better off just paying welfare moms 3 or 4 hundred bucks per month more and saying, just stay home.

What you're suggesting amounts to nothing more than a non-ending drain on a program. Allowing people to return to work returns tax revenue and also stimulates the economy. It's not complicated.

[Hal 9000]

What you're suggesting amounts to nothing more than a non-ending drain on a program. Allowing people to return to work returns tax revenue and also stimulates the economy. It's not complicated.

How much do you think daycare costs?

[On Guard for Thee]

How much do you think daycare costs?

Under Mulcairs plan a dollar spent will return a dollar seventy five. That's of course a projection, but then so was Harper's latest budget projection. I know you will have a story about the dayrate for daycare in your community. However, not likely applicable.

[Hal 9000]

It's not possible. All that's happening is that money is going in a circle, with little bits being syphoned off here and there. Nothing new is generated, it's simply one group handing money to another group to spend. It's like taking a handful of water, passing it to your other hand and dumping back into the bucket - soon that bucket will be empty.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's not possible. All that's happening is that money is going in a circle, with little bits being syphoned off here and there. Nothing new is generated, it's simply one group handing money to another group to spend. It's like taking a handful of water, passing it to your other hand and dumping back into the bucket - soon that bucket will be empty.

People getting a bit of a leg up to go back to work returns big time. I don't know wyh you don't understand that but I'm done trying.

[Hal 9000]

People getting a bit of a leg up to go back to work returns big time. I don't know wyh you don't understand that but I'm done trying.

I understand that having your daycare paid for is a leg up. What you and obviously Mulcair don't understand is that economically, it doesn't make sense...as I said, if welfare people need a leg up, we'd be better off giving them more money and having them stay home - simple economics!

The best case scenario is a single mom with one kid in school gets her 3 hours daycare paid for - great...that works. The worst case scenario is that we fund 3 or 4 kids to go to daycare full time at a cost of approx. 2500$ per month, while mom works 25-30 hours per week making minimum wage. In that case, were all better to just have her sit at home and be a parent.

[On Guard for Thee]

I understand that having your daycare paid for is a leg up. What you and obviously Mulcair don't understand is that economically, it doesn't make sense...as I said, if welfare people need a leg up, we'd be better off giving them more money and having them stay home - simple economics!

The best case scenario is a single mom with one kid in school gets her 3 hours daycare paid for - great...that works. The worst case scenario is that we fund 3 or 4 kids to go to daycare full time at a cost of approx. 2500$ per month, while mom works 25-30 hours per week making minimum wage. In that case, were all better to just have her sit at home and be a parent.

How many single mothers are there with 3 or 4 kids? There are some I'm sure but you're bringing up that miniscule content to try and diffuse the intelligent part of this discussion. But you're busted so don't waste more of your time.

[Hal 9000]

How many single mothers are there with 3 or 4 kids? There are some I'm sure but you're bringing up that miniscule content to try and diffuse the intelligent part of this discussion. But you're busted so don't waste more of your time.

There's enough, and I said worst case! But, even paying for 2 full time kids sets us well into diminishing returns.

[On Guard for Thee]

There's enough, and I said worst case! But, even paying for 2 full time kids sets us well into diminishing returns.

Well I suspect that Tom Mucair has access to accurate numbers with regards to demographics. He says one buck in gets 1.75 back. I can't testify to those figures, nor can you. But have you not seen how many times right wing naysayers will throw out figures that are pretty much as significant as applies to the current temperature on Mars?

[Hal 9000]

Well I suspect that Tom Mucair has access to accurate numbers with regards to demographics. He says one buck in gets 1.75 back. I can't testify to those figures, nor can you. But have you not seen how many times right wing naysayers will throw out figures that are pretty much as significant as applies to the current temperature on Mars?

No, we can't confirm those figures. All we can do is use common sense.

People who would benefit from this are already working parents, those who will know how to scam the system and of course the daycares. It won't generate jobs, it won't solve welfare and will never ever pay for itself.

[On Guard for Thee]

No, we can't confirm those figures. All we can do is use common sense.

People who would benefit from this are already working parents, those who will know how to scam the system and of course the daycares. It won't generate jobs, it won't solve welfare and will never ever pay for itself.

You won't be surprised if I don't accept your claims with no substantiation? But think about this, I rec'd 900 bucks many years ago for a training program that got me a job I have been doing for many years. The amount of taxes I've paid back could possibly overwhelm your math skills.

[Hal 9000]

You won't be surprised if I don't accept your claims with no substantiation? But think about this, I rec'd 900 bucks many years ago for a training program that got me a job I have been doing for many years. The amount of taxes I've paid back could possibly overwhelm your math skills.

Good on ya! But, this isn't the issue. This issue is sustainability of tax paid daycare. And, common sense should tell you that money that merely passes around a circle can not ever increase - especially by 75%.

Would people be better off working, sure! like most people, I wish everyone would get off welfare and work. The economics say that this program will do very little for the welfare recipients and further burden the middle class.

[On Guard for Thee]

Good on ya! But, this isn't the issue. This issue is sustainability of tax paid daycare. And, common sense should tell you that money that merely passes around a circle can not ever increase - especially by 75%.

Would people be better off working, sure! like most people, I wish everyone would get off welfare and work. The economics say that this program will do very little for the welfare recipients and further burden the middle class.

It's not about welfare. It's about single parents being able to get to work by being able to leave their kid in good hands while they do so. You keep getting mixed up.

[Argus]

Good on ya! But, this isn't the issue. This issue is sustainability of tax paid daycare. And, common sense should tell you that money that merely passes around a circle can not ever increase - especially by 75%.

I think it would help to look at this as an efficiency issue. Say you have ten mothers in ten houses looking after ten kids. If two of them looked after all ten kids, that would leave the other 8 free to do other productive work. So clearly, day care ought to be a very efficient use of resources as far as a society is concerned freeing up thousands and tens of thousands of additional workers.

The question, of course, is how effectively and efficiently it can be organized.

[jacee]

Would people be better off working, sure! like most people, I wish everyone would get off welfare and work. The economics say that this program will do very little for the welfare recipients and further burden the middle class.

80% of welfare recipients are single Moms, most of them on and off welfare within 3 years.

Availability of child care is the key factor.

It has a huge impact on welfare.

When you add welfare money saved to the taxes paid when working, the child care cost is a solid earner for government.

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[eyeball]

I think it would help to look at this as an efficiency issue. Say you have ten mothers in ten houses looking after ten kids. If two of them looked after all ten kids, that would leave the other 8 free to do other productive work. So clearly, day care ought to be a very efficient use of resources as far as a society is concerned freeing up thousands and tens of thousands of additional workers.

The question, of course, is how effectively and efficiently it can be organized.

My brother and his wife bought a house with another couple and share time, a bank account and other resources in a manner that frees up time, a lot it, for everyone involved including the kids.

About 6 other couples they know have given this alternative life style choice a whirl and one household fell apart. My brother's household is still going strong after 6 years.

It sounds like things got a little complicated when the household that fell apart went their separate ways so coming up with good agreements is important.

I don't know what sort of reaction society would have towards this sort of small scale communal living arrangement if it started becoming popular. I suspect it would take governments decades to get their heads around the concept never mind trying to accommodate it some how but they'd probably manage to cock it all up, especially the conservative one's.

[Hal 9000]

I think it would help to look at this as an efficiency issue. Say you have ten mothers in ten houses looking after ten kids. If two of them looked after all ten kids, that would leave the other 8 free to do other productive work. So clearly, day care ought to be a very efficient use of resources as far as a society is concerned freeing up thousands and tens of thousands of additional workers.

The question, of course, is how effectively and efficiently it can be organized.

You're assuming that the average single welfare mother has 1 kid.

You're assuming that 8 out of 10 welfare mothers will seek and acquire full time employment (of about 2-300$ more than welfare rates).

You're not accounting for the fact that this system will be utilized by already working people - therefore not injecting any money back.

You're not factoring that if/when some of these people work, they'll take work away from someone else

As far as organization, a couple questions;

How much does someone have to work in order to collect free daycare, 20hrs/wk, 30,35?

Does the person pay and send in receipts?

Do they have to prove they were working at the time that daycare was provided?

Does the mother simply drop off the kids and the daycare bills direct, do we just give an allowance?

What income line do we use for free daycare?

How do we regulate what a daycare is, and what they can charge?

[Keepitsimple]

80% of welfare recipients are single Moms, most of them on and off welfare within 3 years.

Availability of child care is the key factor.

It has a huge impact on welfare.

When you add welfare money saved to the taxes paid when working, the child care cost is a solid earner for government

Interesting comments - do you have any source to back that up?