Aren't You Glad You Voted Liberal?

[kimmy]

Even if the allegations against Mulroney were true... he was alleged to have received $5 million in kickbacks, which is less than the sums that the Liberals have received in kickbacks from Quebec ad-firms. So the claim that "the Liberal scandals just don't measure up" is obviously quite false. The sponsorship scandal more than holds its own.

-kimmy

[Newfie Canadian]

As far as I am concerned; he sold us out to the Americans with his one sided Free Trade agreement.

I just found this funny because I saw in another forum that some Americans are arguing the opposite.

[August1991]

As far as I am concerned; he sold us out to the Americans with his one sided Free Trade agreement.

I just found this funny because I saw in another forum that some Americans are arguing the opposite.

That's a good point, Newf.

[caesar]

Even if the allegations against Mulroney were true... he was alleged to have received $5 million in kickbacks, which is less than the sums that the Liberals have received in kickbacks from Quebec ad-firms. So the claim that "the Liberal scandals just don't measure up" is obviously quite false. The sponsorship scandal more than holds its own.

If they were true; that would be one individual versus a bunch of Liberal supporters. Let's face it, most of these politicians are in it for themselves; not for the sake of serving our country. See how quickly they want to always give themselves big raises.

[caesar]

The GST replaced the Manufacturer's Sales Tax which dated from the 1920s and was an incredibly stupid tax. The GST is one of the most sophisticated taxes in the world. My only criticsm is that it should have been combined with provincial taxes (now the HST) and then combined into an item's selling price (as VAT is in Europe

The manufacturer tax was a better way; no matter how old. The GST adds on taxes every step of the way from manufacturer to us. It just means more money in the govt's pockets and more work for accountants figuring out the gst owed by companies large and small. I prefer seeing the price I am going to pay when looking at items.

What made the manufacturers sales tax stupid??? Just because it was old and a tax worked into a product???

[August1991]

What made the manufacturers sales tax stupid???

It only applied to goods (not services) produced in Canada (imports were exempt). In addition, it only covered the wholesale value, not the retail.

The effect was to create many distortions in prices.

There was a need to reform the federal sales tax but no Liberal government would go near the problem. Mulroney, to his credit, did.

I prefer seeing the price I am going to pay when looking at items.

I agree with you. (This is how it is done in Europe where typically a 15% VAT is included in the price.)

Michael Wilson, Mulroney's Finance Minister, opted for visibility. I think two reasons were given: 1. It would be more difficult to raise GST in the future if it were visible. 2. Every receipt must clearly indicate the tax paid. This was to reduce tax fraud.

The GST adds on taxes every step of the way from manufacturer to us.

It is a value-added tax. That means each seller receives a refund on previous taxes paid and in effect is taxed only on the value added to the good or service.

Everyone pays the GST, including drug dealers, prostitutes, bank robbers, illegal immigrants, and foreign tourists. (None of these people pay Canadian income tax yet they benefit from public services in Canada.)

[kimmy]

If they were true; that would be one individual versus a bunch of Liberal supporters.

Good point, caesar. The sponsorship scandal is not just bigger in terms of amount of money, but also the number of conspirators.

The manufacturer tax was a better way; no matter how old.  The GST adds on taxes every step of the way from manufacturer to us.  It just means more money in the govt's pockets and more work for accountants figuring out the gst owed by companies large and small.  I prefer seeing the price I am going to pay when looking at items.

What made the manufacturers sales tax stupid???  Just because it was old and a tax worked into a product???

The MFT, as I understand it at least, was unfair to Canadian manufacturers. By charging it to the manufacturer, the tax basically raised the cost of Canadian products 13% versus their world competitors.

All other things being equal, if you're at your local Canadian Tire and choosing a ceiling fan, the US-made one would cost $100, the Chinese-made one would cost $100, and the Canadian-made one would cost $113, with the last $13 being from the MFT. That's not fair. That's stupid.

Under the GST, the Chinese fan and US fan and Canadian fan would all cost $107. That's fair.

Giving people in Canada and around the world a 13% penalty for buying Canadian is just stupid.

-kimmy

[August1991]

Good point, caesar. The sponsorship scandal is not just bigger in terms of amount of money, but also the number of conspirators.

That implies the Airbus accusations were true. They weren't.

It reminds me of the story of two old friends meeting in the street after not seeing each for a long time. One says, "I heard you were mixed up in some watch theft." The other replies, "Yes, somebody stole my watch."

[Big Blue Machine]

Nothing happened in the Airbus affair.

[caesar]

The manufacturer's trax was not unfair to domestic manufacturers. That is why we have an import tax. Gst is just too much tax on taxes. It may be fairer to Canadian manufacturers but is a pain in the butt to small businesses and a pain in the pocket book to consumers.

Plus the manufacturer tax could be tailored to specific industries. Environmentally friendly manufacturers could pay less; necessities could pay less; luxury items more.

[Shakeyhands]

I sure am glad.

[August1991]

Something else about Mulroney. He was born poor, in Baie Comeau. So was Chretien, in Shawinigan.

Turner, Trudeau, Martin were born rich. Like Justin Trudeau, or Ben Mulroney, they had several thousand a month, automatic. They feel proud because they don't just watch TV. "We could, but we choose instead to implicate ourselves in our community."

Bleh.

I have compared my own past family members with politicians of similar periods. In general, the policians were far ahead of any of my ancestors. Diefenbaker was a lawyer; Pearson a Foreign Service bureaucrat. My ancestors at the time managed barely to finish the local school.

King, Levesque, Pearson, Drew, Duplessis. They were out of the league of anyone in my family.

I kind of respect Chretien and (Brian) Mulroney for having the good fortune of a decent if poor Dad, and the decent fortune of using their good sense.

Lougheed's grandfather was a Senator. Alberta. Ugh.

[Bro]

Shakey,

Do your hands shake when you get liberal money you know you don't deserve?Does this explain your moniker and also why you are happy the liberals are still in power?

[takeanumber]

One thing I can't stand is when a member of the ruling elite tries to portray their childhood as being a 'poor' one.

Martin is a good example. He did make the attempt. He didn't convince anybody though.

Donald Trump is another classic one.

Bush takes the cake.

At least Kerry admits he's Patrician.

That said, I have no problem with a sliver spooner serving the country from time to time, so long as it isn't all the time. I reckon since they make up 3 percent of the population, they should get 3 years to govern per century.

Now, since Trudeau and a few others have served, roughtly, 60 years in the past century (?) rough guess...well then, you guys have 3 years, so that leaves 57 years they owe us, so I reckon that Justin Trudeau can run in say, 1900 years?

Sounds fair to me.

Nah. Just kidding.

To get back to the topic:

Most people who voted liberal, held their nose and voted that way. lol.

What does that say about the quality of the Alliance party?

Anyway. I can't say any more....

They held their nose. That's all I'm saying.

[JWayne625]

Ottawa told the shipbuilding industry that they don't involve themselves in subsidizing industry because it violates trade laws, and as a consequence of that thousnads of skilled shipbuilding workers are now unemployed with no prospects for employment. Now they are now talking about subsidizing the aerospace industry, specifically Bombardier.

We are in the process of an inquiry led by Justice Gomery into the last sponsorship program they conducted in Quebec, is this but just another sponsorship deal? When is it going to be time to finally say enough, to Quebec?