On Baring your face in public

[carepov]

You are both deliberately missing the point. The argument was that not having an open and generous immigration system would harm our reputation. That is clearly nonsense.

IMO, Canada has the best immigration system in the world. Can you think of a country that has a better one? I do not think "open and generous" best describes our system. Immigrants are already selected based on their probability of successfully integrating and contributing to our society. Our system is tolerant and successful.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, you would deny applicants from certain countries. I think that this policy would harm our reputation - obviously with those countries that are on the banned list. Also, Even if the policy were not racist, such a policy would certainly be called racist and more people would view Canada as a racist society.

[carepov]

Why should countries like Canada, the U.S. and Europe have to absorb such a disproportionate amount of the dislocation caused by turmoil in Africa and Asia? I say that the U.S. does more than enough for its Latin American neighbors.

Disproportionate? Really? Disproportionate to Kenya or Lebanon?

[Argus]

Fair point. I do know, though, that arguments from the left and right argue for reduction or elimination of immigration. I also wonder - and you can perhaps fill in the gaps - as to whether there is a supply of immigrants from the countries that you want to target for human imports. Also this new term "social types" needs to be elaborated on your part a little more.

We know, generally speaking, which immigrants are going to be most economically succesful here and blend in the quickest. Those would be reasonably educated immigrants with superior linguistic abiliies and very flexible and adaptable mindsets who are, for want of a better description, respectful of local sensibilities, cultural values and laws.

There are countries where, for fairly good reasons, the cultural mindset of the people is that you do whatever you think you can get away with, because life is a hardscrabble existence, the laws are dumb and the system is corrupt anyway. Respect for the rights of others in such cultures is minimal.

I would say half the world is like this, maybe more than half. Add in extreme (by our standards) social beliefs which are guided by religion (and thus much less likely to be abandoned) and you have immigrants who are unlikely to embrace Canadian values. Such immigrants should be avoided. If we can't screen them individually, then we should screen them group characteristics including by geographic areas.

As for the availability of immigrants. That is something determined by local conditions, which change over time. Right now, I have little doubt Canada could get more than sufficient immigrants from Europe alone. Given the educational sytems there, given the secular nature of European countries societies, the simularity of community values and the prevelance of English as a second or third language I would think such a population would be the ideal for Canada.[

It's not incredible that no such study has ever been undertaken, though. There are other things that we don't study because it's not politically tenable.

Why would it not be politically tenable? You figure out first and foremost what is the proper number to bring in given currently known demographic numbers. Then you figure out what skillsets would be most economically viable based upon known statistical data. None of that would raise eyebrows even among the most politically correct. Well, unless of course the proper number turns out to be half what the existing number is...

Now shifting immigration to Europe would certainly cause a fuss since the knee-jerk reaction amongst the Left would be to presume it's being done due to absence of skin pigmentation. It's a silly and brainless argument, of course, but it would take a braver man than Stephen Harper to risk having the epithets thrown at him over this issue. Which is why I'm quite sure he won't even try. He could, however, make sure immigration levels are based upon proper demographic and statistical information, and at least nudge the acceptance criteria towards where we'd get more Poles and Irish and less Pakistanis and Iranians.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Why would it not be politically tenable? You figure out first and foremost what is the proper number to bring in given currently known demographic numbers. Then you figure out what skillsets would be most economically viable based upon known statistical data. None of that would raise eyebrows even among the most politically correct. Well, unless of course the proper number turns out to be half what the existing number is...

There's a meme out there that cutting immigration is some kind of political "3rd rail". I don't know that you have repeated that one, but some have done so. The idea being that Harper would love to cut immigration but he can't because he'd be called out as racist.

I don't think that that is completely true, but I do think that if they tried to group people in certain ways then there would be a political backlash. Impossible to prove, but that's what I would guess.

Now shifting immigration to Europe would certainly cause a fuss since the knee-jerk reaction amongst the Left would be to presume it's being done due to absence of skin pigmentation.

Exactly. Also, as I have asked - how would you prevent, say, "groups" from those countries that you (or one) wouldn't want ?

[peoples advocate]

My grandparents came to Canada from a country where men like dto wear skirts. They call 'em kilts. And they played an instrument the soiund of which could peal the paint off the water tower. Should they have banned them too? And how about our First Nations who like to wear ceremonial headdress at certain times. Kinda hard to kick them out. I'm not a fan of burka's by any means, but I also think if someone meets the requirements as set out by Immigration, and wishes to become Canadian, then they should have equal rights. Part of the requirements of course is abiding by Canadian laws. If someone arrives and tries invoking Sharia laws then I do have a problem, and they will have a problem with our legal system.

I think the thing that bothers people is they wish to move to our country because their country is such a bad place to live then they try to make Canada like there home country. I say if you want to come here and become a Canadian citizen then you take it seriously and make an effort .

I will welcome any one to this country as long as they try and make an effort no one is perfect.