socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Anti-union rhetoric is being heard quite often as we inch closer to a federal election. It's no secret that the CPC, much like the Ontario PC party, will be looking to hurt unions. We need to do what we can so the results of the federal election mirror the results of the Ontario election. The public is very much in favour of unions. We can't let an ideological party damage all unions do for the working class. Over the past decade there has been an increasing effort by conservative lawmakers and industrialists who bankroll them to limit or eliminate collective bargaining rights and many of the gains made through collective bargaining. My colleagues in Manitoba that I converse with through social media have led me to a website from their Teachers' Society that neatly sums up the attack on unions. There is a lot of reading here but if any of you want to truly understand the gravity of this situation, then I STRONGLY suggest you read each link carefully. http://www.mbteach.org/unionwatch/unionmain.html Edited October 6, 2014 by socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Unions accomplish very little of worth in today's economy. Their prime role today is to prevent businesses from adapting and changing, and eventually putting them out of business. At my workplace, the best nurses hate the union, and the worst, laziest ones love it. The biggest relevant examples of union effect is the biggest of them all - the autoworkers. This is an industry that over the last 30 years has been largely non-competitive and only exists with the help of bailouts 3-4 times, at the expense of the taxpayer. Unions don't improve things for workers, they transfer wealth from taxpayers to union employees and management. Edited October 8, 2014 by Charles Anthony deleted quote of re-copied Opening Post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What does this have to do with federal politics? Education is a provincial responsibility. Teachers' unions negotiate with the provinces. This has nothing to do with Harper or federal government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Unions accomplish very little of worth in today's economy. Their prime role today is to prevent businesses from adapting and changing, and eventually putting them out of business. At my workplace, the best nurses hate the union, and the worst, laziest ones love it. The biggest relevant examples of union effect is the biggest of them all - the autoworkers. This is an industry that over the last 30 years has been largely non-competitive and only exists with the help of bailouts 3-4 times, at the expense of the taxpayer. Unions don't improve things for workers, they transfer wealth from taxpayers to union employees and management. Complete nonsense! Oh where to start? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) The biggest relevant examples of union effect is the biggest of them all - the autoworkers. This is an industry that over the last 30 years has been largely non-competitive and only exists with the help of bailouts 3-4 times, at the expense of the taxpayer. Unions don't improve things for workers, they transfer wealth from taxpayers to union employees and management. This is one of those urban legends people like to repeat. The reality is that the Harbor report studied the productivity of union vs non-union automotive shops, and not only was there no real difference but 2 of the top 3 most productive plans were unionized. As for the bailouts... Those happened because of investors and politicians... not because of workers. Edited October 6, 2014 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What does this have to do with federal politics? Education is a provincial responsibility. Teachers' unions negotiate with the provinces. This has nothing to do with Harper or federal government. Not really. There's bill C-377 which is apparently re introduced into the senate that will put all unions in a weak position. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) This is one of those urban legends people like to repeat. The reality is that the Harbor report studied the productivity of union vs non-union automotive shops, and not only was there no real difference but 2 of the top 3 most productive plans were unionized. Must be why we had to bail them out, and why the US has had to bail them out 3 or 4 times. You realize there is no necessary connection between productive and profitable right? The domestic auto industry keeps going bankrupt. Whether they are full of productive workers or not, they are obviously paid too high for those plants to compete. Edited October 6, 2014 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Must be why we had to bail them out, and why the US has had to bail them out 3 or 4 times. No we had to bail them out because the bloated financial sector turned the economy into a rigged casino, and wiped out trillions of dollars worth of peoples wealth leaving them less likely to buy new cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What does this have to do with federal politics? Education is a provincial responsibility. Teachers' unions negotiate with the provinces. This has nothing to do with Harper or federal government. Bill C-377 has a lot to do with federal politics. Try becoming informed for once. Also, I said unions...as in unions in general...not specifically teacher unions/associations. Brush up on your reading skills please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Must be why we had to bail them out, and why the US has had to bail them out 3 or 4 times. You realize there is no necessary connection between productive and profitable right? The domestic auto industry keeps going bankrupt. Whether they are full of productive workers or not, they are obviously paid too high for those plants to compete. This is one of those urban legends people like to repeat. The reality is that the Harbor report studied the productivity of union vs non-union automotive shops, and not only was there no real difference but 2 of the top 3 most productive plans were unionized. As for the bailouts... Those happened because of investors and politicians... not because of workers. This is one of those circumstances where a supporting post would answer the question. Productivity usually takes costs into account, if I remember my Economics courses, but we don't have a link explaining Dre's point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Vesides that, I got nuffin.... LOL You are the gift that keeps on giving! Oh man....too funny. You guys really find a spelling error funny?. Really? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 You guys really find a spelling error funny?. Really? WWWTT You wouldn't understand irony if it bit you in the balls... Stick to telling us about how vastly superior China's judicial system and freedoms are compared to Canada.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Not really. There's bill C-377 which is apparently re introduced into the senate that will put all unions in a weak position. WWWTT Would have been nice if the OP was specific about that, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Would have been nice if the OP was specific about that, don't you think? Read the links. All the info you need is there. Put some effort into something for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 You guys really find a spelling error funny?. Really? WWWTT You know what they say about people who criticize typos........simple-minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Read the links. All the info you need is there. Put some effort into something for once. It's on you to provide more substance than just posting a link as the OP. It lays all of that out in the "Posting Content" section of the Forum Rules and Guidelines. Edited October 6, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Look at this and understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 How about you make an argument for a change, instead of posting videos and links, having someone else write the argument for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 How about you make an argument for a change, instead of posting videos and links, having someone else write the argument for you? I always give arguments. i am against the obvious assault on unions. Where do you stand besides waiting for others to post what you might want to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 It's pretty obvious where I stand from my past arguments on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Must be why we had to bail them out, and why the US has had to bail them out 3 or 4 times. You realize there is no necessary connection between productive and profitable right? The domestic auto industry keeps going bankrupt. Whether they are full of productive workers or not, they are obviously paid too high for those plants to compete. We bailed them out because they are cheap, poorly produced hunks of North American crap. Japan will always be the home of true long lasting automobiles. Edited October 7, 2014 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Would have been nice if the OP was specific about that, don't you think? Yes you have a point. Unions are primarily a provincial jurisdiction. But there's also temporary foreign workers and that Canada post issue. As well as the RCMP at one time not being allowed to have a union (not sure what happened with that). Overall, poor start for a thread. But maybe Socialist can improve from this mistake? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 You wouldn't understand irony if it bit you in the balls... Stick to telling us about how vastly superior China's judicial system and freedoms are compared to Canada.... Irony has teeth and a moving jaw now does it? I'll debate in any thread I may choose here buddy! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) You know what they say about people who criticize typos........simple-minded. Not to criticize it, but could you not fix it? It is possible to edit headings, isn't it? Edited October 7, 2014 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFCaper Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I always give arguments. i am against the obvious assault on unions. Where do you stand besides waiting for others to post what you might want to say? As a frequent reader, Cybercoma is the member that has it's own opinion, not just a Parrot for Teachers Union. Cyber maybe to my left in general, but certainly doesn't parrot any party. If unions didn't protect the lazy, then they would be the most productive all the time. Large organizations that have the most modernized manufacturing systems are normally also unionized. With the manufacturing know how they have, they should be the most efficient. Having launched manufacturing systems in different continents, the lazy employees really hurt facilities here. Labour here maybe more expensive, but is far more skilled, educated and quality conscious than most. To make sure that the company cannot identify the lazy members, the union puts in rules that do not allow companies track things or change things... Despite having world class labour here, unions are a hindrance. I think we should look to German or Japan for union structures. That and eliminate the political activism from unions would be a good first step. The political activism of unions is why I don't mind Bill 377... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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