Ryder Cup

[Wilber]

In what specific way?

Should be obvious if you watched it?

[overthere]

golf is not a team game. You play the course. Nothing that your buddy does makes any difference to what you do, which is try to get the wee ball in the hole. Your buddy or captain has no influnce on that.

In what SPECIFIC way?

[overthere]

"Team" golf is a made for TV concept, a marketing ploy. No more.

[guyser]

Match play, coupling the right combo to defeat the opponents strengths or weaknesses, theres two.

[Wilber]

golf is not a team game. You play the course. Nothing that your buddy does makes any difference to what you do, which is try to get the wee ball in the hole. Your buddy or captain has no influnce on that.

In what SPECIFIC way?

In four ball and foursomes there is most definitely strategy. What one player does can have a huge influence on the next shot the other guy has to make. Pairs have to be singing from the same song sheet or they will get dusted. In singles, knowing the whole team can stand or fall on what you do is a dynamic you don't see in regular tournaments and adds a huge amount of pressure, The cheer leading you see from team mates who aren't playing is unique to this kind of tournament. The crowds are also totally different. Very partisan and very noisy. The dynamic of match play is totally different from stroke play. You can play the course five strokes under your opponent but still lose because he won more holes.

That and the fact they are not paid is what makes it so much more interesting than normal tournaments where it is just about the individual and the big paycheck.

[overthere]

Match play, coupling the right combo to defeat the opponents strengths or weaknesses, theres two.

You don't play against the other team. You play against the course. There is nothing the opposing player or team can do to change how you hit your ball, it's not like tennis or hockey. Your score or ability to make shots has nothing to do with your teammates or the other team.

That is baloney about alternating shots too, you cannot play to your own teams weaknesses or strengths either.

Say you have one big hitter and one short game whiz. You're playing alternate shots, how on earth can you possibly ensure that one guy hits to his strengths only? You can do it on the first tee. For one shot. So does the other team. Advantage? None.

Its just marketing.

Who gets all the loot generated by this event, who profits?

[Wilber]

You don't play against the other team. You play against the course. There is nothing the opposing player or team can do to change how you hit your ball, it's not like tennis or hockey. Your score or ability to make shots has nothing to do with your teammates or the other team.

That is baloney about alternating shots too, you cannot play to your own teams weaknesses or strengths either.

Say you have one big hitter and one short game whiz. You're playing alternate shots, how on earth can you possibly ensure that one guy hits to his strengths only? You can do it on the first tee. For one shot. So does the other team. Advantage? None.

Its just marketing.

Who gets all the loot generated by this event, who profits?

In alternate shot you are trying to put your team mate in position for his next shot and play to his strength or at least try and avoid his weakness. In four ball the first players shot will dictate what his partner tries to do with his.

You aren't playing against the course, you are playing against the other guy or team. As I said before, you can shoot a 65 and lose even though the other guy shot a 70, because he won more holes.

The loot goes to the tours and golfers associations, not to individual players.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Wilber

[Big Guy]

I think the matchups in foursomes is crucial. The players have to play the same ball. Some players like a lower compression ball while others are accustomed to a very high compression ball depending on their swing.

You have to pair up two guys who are used to the same ball.

[overthere]

In alternate shot you are trying to put your team mate in position for his next shot and play to his strength or at least try and avoid his weakness. In four ball the first players shot will dictate what his partner tries to do with his.

Every player with every shot is trying to do exactly the same thing every single time, and it makes absolutely no difference who you are playing with or who you are playing against. You're trying to get the ball into the best position for the next shot, almost always closest to the hole.

I understand the first players shot dictates the next shot. It makes absolutely no difference in what the first player does, or what the second guy does. They both hit as long and as in the middle and as close to the hole as possible with their skill set.

You have to pair up two guys who are used to the same ball.

please.

[Big Guy]

....

please.

Regarding using the same kind of ball;

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2014/09/whose-ball-is-used-in-ryder-cup.html

[Wilber]

Every player with every shot is trying to do exactly the same thing every single time, and it makes absolutely no difference who you are playing with or who you are playing against. You're trying to get the ball into the best position for the next shot, almost always closest to the hole.

I understand the first players shot dictates the next shot. It makes absolutely no difference in what the first player does, or what the second guy does. They both hit as long and as in the middle and as close to the hole as possible with their skill set.

please.

Every player has a strategy as to how they will play a round and it is no different for a team. In match play that strategy has to be revised every hole according to what your opponents do.

What do you mean by please. Players use different balls, in foursomes you could end up playing a ball that is very different from what you are used to if the pairings are done wrong. Even a crappy golfer like me can see big differences in the way different balls play.

[overthere]

These are pro players that can shape shots in ways we can only dream of doing.

the golf pro at a local course shoots around 80 playing the entire round with a 7 iron, and he is not close to being in the league of the worst PGA golfer.

Using a different ball than the one you normally used might have an effect of .00001% on a golfer of that caliber. Maybe.

The choice of golf balls by PGA pros has little to do with the game itself and a whole lot to do with endorsement money paid by ball manufacturers to the golfers. The actual ball is strictly regulated and differences are minimal.

The only strategy during the match is shoot the very best shot, every time. The only time you change that strategy is when you are going to lose the hole, then you try to hole out. Your captain or pairing makes not a whit of influence on that. Hit it long, hit it straight, hit it close.

[Big Guy]

These are pro players that can shape shots ...

Your captain or pairing makes not a whit of influence on that. Hit it long, hit it straight, hit it close.

I disagree. I have played in foursomes where the ball my partner was using felt like hitting a rock. He was a heavy hitter and used a high compression ball. At the time I was a 9 handicap golfer and no pro (obviously) but the better players were using balls that most reflected their club head speed and swing.

http://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/equipment-choices/golf-ball-compression-chart-and-rank/

[Wilber]

These are pro players that can shape shots in ways we can only dream of doing.

the golf pro at a local course shoots around 80 playing the entire round with a 7 iron, and he is not close to being in the league of the worst PGA golfer.

Using a different ball than the one you normally used might have an effect of .00001% on a golfer of that caliber. Maybe.

The choice of golf balls by PGA pros has little to do with the game itself and a whole lot to do with endorsement money paid by ball manufacturers to the golfers. The actual ball is strictly regulated and differences are minimal.

The only strategy during the match is shoot the very best shot, every time. The only time you change that strategy is when you are going to lose the hole, then you try to hole out. Your captain or pairing makes not a whit of influence on that. Hit it long, hit it straight, hit it close.

Every pro out there would disagree with you. When it comes to endorsements, every manufacturer makes a variety of different balls and no player is going to play a ball that doesn't suit their game.

[guyser]

Every pro out there would disagree with you.

So would every pundit who writes, reports and watches Golf.

The Ryder Cup is a team event and players are matched up for strength and weaknesses.

Maybe overthere is the ONLY one on the planet who knows better.

[Wilber]

One take on the Watson captaincy.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/9/30/6871439/phil-mickelson-tom-watson-ryder-cup-captain-2014

[Wilber]

So would every pundit who writes, reports and watches Golf.

The Ryder Cup is a team event and players are matched up for strength and weaknesses.

Maybe overthere is the ONLY one on the planet who knows better.

You are to hit the ball long, straight and close, but supposedly the the thing you are trying to hit long, straight and close doesn't matter. That doesn't make sense.

[The_Squid]

If a fade is a player's best shot, wouldn't you team them up with someone who also likes to play a fade? Otherwise they might prefer to be on opposite sides of the fairway and may not be playing to their strengths.

There is more to it than just whacking the ball close to the hole when you are playing in a team tournament.

[Wilber]

If a fade is a player's best shot, wouldn't you team them up with someone who also likes to play a fade? Otherwise they might prefer to be on opposite sides of the fairway and may not be playing to their strengths.

There is more to it than just whacking the ball close to the hole when you are playing in a team tournament.

I think the opposite might be true. A right handed player who played a draw would put the ball on the left side of the fairway making a fade the easier second shot. Mind you, if I was that good I would know what I am talking about. Not.

[The_Squid]

I think the opposite might be true. A right handed player who played a draw would put the ball on the left side of the fairway making a fade the easier second shot. Mind you, if I was that good I would know what I am talking about. Not.

lol

I was using a hypothetical...

My shots are either a wicked slice, a bad slice, or semi-straight....

[overthere]

They did not lose because of team play, the captain or his choices, the wrong ball or any factor except being outplayed shot by shot. Better golfers playing better golf won.

Blaming the captain is just avoiding responsibility.

[guyser]

OK, well, once again you know and the rest of the world, including all the golfers involved are wrong.

[Wilber]

They did not lose because of team play, the captain or his choices, the wrong ball or any factor except being outplayed shot by shot. Better golfers playing better golf won.

Blaming the captain is just avoiding responsibility.

So the obvious question is why did they play badly?

Actually they were outplayed hole by hole. That's how match play works.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The American players just don't seem as motivated to win. Given that stroke play is the norm everywhere now, they should win more often than not given their superior rankings. Tiger and Phil did not deliver as much as they should have over the years to this team event. Also the only time I have seen recrimination in the Euro ranks was with Faldo as captain and that was over his offhand attitude more than his tactics. Faldo also got a hammering when he criticized Sergio during this event which is simply not on for a former captain. Apart from that, the team spirit seems much stronger in the European side.

[The_Squid]

That's the thing with the team event.... it depends on the entirety of the team, not just Tiger and Phil.

I don't see that the motivation is on the Euro side... have there been some comments from the U.S. side that would make you think that?

I like the tournament. It's quite interesting. A friend and I like the format and use it when we play. That way you don't even look or care about your score until after the match. What matters is how many holes you won and whether he's buying the beer!

The American players just don't seem as motivated to win. Given that stroke play is the norm everywhere now, they should win more often than not given their superior rankings. Tiger and Phil did not deliver as much as they should have over the years to this team event. Also the only time I have seen recrimination in the Euro ranks was with Faldo as captain and that was over his offhand attitude more than his tactics. Faldo also got a hammering when he criticized Sergio during this event which is simply not on for a former captain. Apart from that, the team spirit seems much stronger in the European side.