Paying Ransoms For Hostages

[Big Guy]

The American journalist, Foley, was killed because no one paid to a ransom of about $100 million (initial demand) for him. Other civilians have been ransomed in the past by Spain, France and other countries. Their citizens were released after the ransom was paid.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paying-a-terrorist-ransom-may-put-a-country-s-citizens-at-greater-risk-expert-1.1971270

Canada and the USA have a policy of not paying ransom demands for their citizens although they will allow third parties (family, company, charitable organization) to pay for releases. It appears that in Foley's case, no one offered to negotiate or release the hostage so he was beheaded as a message to others. The USA has an alternative – special operation troops capable of “extricating” hostages anywhere in the world. Apparently they used them unsuccessfully in the Foley case. To the best of my knowledge, Canada does not have that option or at least has never used it.

It has been estimated that that terrorists have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars from ransom payments and use that money to further their causes around the world.

So any Canadian kidnapped or held hostage is doomed unless some private organization decides to ransom them. Is this what we want?

We do have options;

Create a Canadian government hostage negotiation division which would co-ordinate contact, negotiation, payment and release of Canadian hostages.

Maintain our current position where Canadians with rich families or large corporation support can be ransomed- and the others? Well, too bad.

Do not negotiate with terrorists at all and not allow anyone else to negotiate with them.

How should we deal with Canadian taken hostage by terrorists?

[Derek 2.0]

.Do not negotiate with terrorists at all and not allow anyone else to negotiate with them.

How should we deal with Canadian taken hostage by terrorists?

Zero negotiations……….It only begets further hostage taking.

[On Guard for Thee]

The American journalist, Foley, was killed because no one paid to a ransom of about $100 million (initial demand) for him. Other civilians have been ransomed in the past by Spain, France and other countries. Their citizens were released after the ransom was paid.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paying-a-terrorist-ransom-may-put-a-country-s-citizens-at-greater-risk-expert-1.1971270

Canada and the USA have a policy of not paying ransom demands for their citizens although they will allow third parties (family, company, charitable organization) to pay for releases. It appears that in Foley's case, no one offered to negotiate or release the hostage so he was beheaded as a message to others. The USA has an alternative – special operation troops capable of “extricating” hostages anywhere in the world. Apparently they used them unsuccessfully in the Foley case. To the best of my knowledge, Canada does not have that option or at least has never used it.

It has been estimated that that terrorists have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars from ransom payments and use that money to further their causes around the world.

So any Canadian kidnapped or held hostage is doomed unless some private organization decides to ransom them. Is this what we want?

We do have options;

Create a Canadian government hostage negotiation division which would co-ordinate contact, negotiation, payment and release of Canadian hostages.

Maintain our current position where Canadians with rich families or large corporation support can be ransomed- and the others? Well, too bad.

Do not negotiate with terrorists at all and not allow anyone else to negotiate with them.

How should we deal with Canadian taken hostage by terrorists?

I'd say forget about your option #1, never happen nor should it.

After that we have JTF2 who's tasks include the exact same type of ops. the US Navy Seals etal attempted to do with Foley. Start negotiating at an institutional level and you fling the door wide open.

[Derek 2.0]

After that we have JTF2 who's tasks include the exact same type of ops.

Unlike the SEALS, Delta or SAS, JTF2 (and the Canadian Forces themselves) lack the ability to operate in a benign environment independently, let alone a hostile region in a far flung craphole.

[On Guard for Thee]

Unlike the SEALS, Delta or SAS, JTF2 (and the Canadian Forces themselves) lack the ability to operate in a benign environment independently, let alone a hostile region in a far flung craphole.

They did pretty good in the "crapholes" of Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Derek 2.0]

They did pretty good in the "crapholes" of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Supported heavily by SOCOM..........

[On Guard for Thee]

Supported heavily by SOCOM..........

Military operations usually do require support.

[Derek 2.0]

Military operations usually do require support.

Then why the contention over Canada’s JTF2 lacking the ability to independently conduct a hostage rescue on foreign soil, sans a heavy reliance upon the Americans?

[On Guard for Thee]

Then why the contention over Canada’s JTF2 lacking the ability to independently conduct a hostage rescue on foreign soil, sans a heavy reliance upon the Americans?

I agree they needed support. They are a small team, but very effective according to US units they worked with.

[Derek 2.0]

I agree they needed support. They are a small team, but very effective according to US units they worked with.

So why would you suggest JTF2 would be capable of carrying out a similar operation as the botched rescue of Foley by the SEALS? The JTF2 (and CSOR as a whole) are very small, and lack the resources to conduct such a hypothetical hostage rescue operation.

[On Guard for Thee]

So why would you suggest JTF2 would be capable of carrying out a similar operation as the botched rescue of Foley by the SEALS? The JTF2 (and CSOR as a whole) are very small, and lack the resources to conduct such a hypothetical hostage rescue operation.

I see, so perhaps you agree with the idea that I initially posted in responmse to and would suggest we set up a government terrorist negotiating team. I still disagree with such a notion, sorry.

[Derek 2.0]

I see, so perhaps you agree with the idea that I initially posted in responmse to and would suggest we set up a government terrorist negotiating team. I still disagree with such a notion, sorry.

Why would you assume that?

[On Guard for Thee]

Why would you assume that?

Let me make this quite simple. Regardless of what you think of JTF2, it's a better option to deal with terrorists than setting up a government office to negotiate with them. That's what I initially posted basically.

[Argus]

I see, so perhaps you agree with the idea that I initially posted in responmse to and would suggest we set up a government terrorist negotiating team. I still disagree with such a notion, sorry.

Most governments negotiate with terrorists and pay ransom, including Canada's. Governments are run by politicians. Politicians don't care about anything a few years down the road. They only care about this electoral period. If something is causing them difficulties, they're more than willing to fork over public money to make it go away. If that means more people get kidnapped, so be it. They'll handle that when and if it happens, hopefully after the next election.

What? Stand up and refuse the appeals of teary eyed relatives when Johnny or Jill get kidnapped by the people in the nasty shithole they voluntarily went over to visit? That won't make a politician look caring on television!

[Derek 2.0]

Let me make this quite simple. Regardless of what you think of JTF2, it's a better option to deal with terrorists than setting up a government office to negotiate with them. That's what I initially posted basically.

I never suggested "setting up a government office to negotiate with them" was a good idea........And no, JTF2 and the Armed Forces as a whole, are not a viable option to independently deal with overseas hostage situations.

[Derek 2.0]

What? Stand up and refuse the appeals of teary eyed relatives when Johnny or Jill get kidnapped by the people in the nasty shithole they voluntarily went over to visit? That won't make a politician look caring on television!

Exactly........if Johnny or Jill heeded travel warnings, they wouldn't get kidnapped....simple concept really.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[On Guard for Thee]

Most governments negotiate with terrorists and pay ransom, including Canada's. Governments are run by politicians. Politicians don't care about anything a few years down the road. They only care about this electoral period. If something is causing them difficulties, they're more than willing to fork over public money to make it go away. If that means more people get kidnapped, so be it. They'll handle that when and if it happens, hopefully after the next election.

What? Stand up and refuse the appeals of teary eyed relatives when Johnny or Jill get kidnapped by the people in the nasty shithole they voluntarily went over to visit? That won't make a politician look caring on television!

That is true of course, they just do it "in the shadows" so as not to make it a calling card.

[AngusThermopyle]

Exactly........if Johnny or Jill heeded travel warnings, they wouldn't get kidnapped....simple concept really.

Glad you guys mentioned that. I was thinking it from the moment I started reading this thread. I find it interesting that it has been suggested that the CAF handle these situations. After being one of the favourite places to cut funding, manpower, equipment etc. for decades some would appear to want the Forces to do what they have no capability to do.

[Guest]

Zero negotiations……….It only begets further hostage taking.

Completely agree. Set up a department for it and hostages would be kidnapped all over Canada. They wouldn't need to go to a hotspot.

In fact, if it's the Canadian government doing it, I might kidnap a couple myself...

[WestCoastRunner]

Completely agree. Set up a department for it and hostages would be kidnapped all over Canada. They wouldn't need to go to a hotspot.

In fact, if it's the Canadian government doing it, I might kidnap a couple myself...

I do think that negotiations do take place for kidnappings of canadians, especially with employees from the oil industry (ie alberta). We just don't hear about it. Do not kid yourself. We do negotiate and we do pay.

[Guest]

I know. I think it's a bad idea but try telling a family member that.

A government department responsible for it, though?

[WestCoastRunner]

I know. I think it's a bad idea but try telling a family member that.

A government department responsible for it, though?

That will never happen.

[WestCoastRunner]

It will continue to be on the side of secrets.

[Derek 2.0]

Completely agree. Set up a department for it and hostages would be kidnapped all over Canada. They wouldn't need to go to a hotspot.

In fact, if it's the Canadian government doing it, I might kidnap a couple myself...

Don’t get me wrong, if a Canadian is taken hostage in another country, I’ve no issue with our Government aiding said nation in attempting to retrieve the person, but I wholly disagree with offering cash….

[On Guard for Thee]

If i'd have heeded Foreign Affairs travel warnings, I wouldn't have been able to work for the last 25 years or so. They probably suggest not travelling to MO. right now. You need more info to make an informed decision on travel than the gov. gives you.