Ferguson unrest

[On Guard for Thee]

It is astonishing.....only "blacks" are ever killed by the police in the U.S. /sarcasm

You don't really need to bother labeling your posts, they are usually self evident.

[Bryan]

You know more than the coroner do you? And everybody else it seems. So dream on.

Does the coroner train chokeholds on a daily basis? Do you?

Because I do.

[Spiderfish]

It doesn’t take a PhD to look at this guy and see he was pretty unhealthy. It’s reasonable to conclude that the way he was taken down to submission contributed in some way to his death. But his physical condition undoubtedly played a larger role. I think if he was a normal, healthy individual he would have been taken into custody without incident. How were the police to know his heart was unhealthy and that he had asthma? They have a job to do, you can’t be performing a routine physical on every individual prior to arrest. In hindsight, I’m sure the police would have taken it easier on him if they would have known he was in such a fragile state. Perhaps in his physical condition he should not have put up a fight, it may have saved his life.

This whole tired narrative that white cops in the US are going around and killing black males for petty crimes or less is unfortunate, and only serves to reinforce and propagate racist sentiment and drive the wedge further. It’s really too bad that much of the progress made over the last several decades is being wiped out trying to defend the bad decisions of a few individuals who think they are above the rules that govern society. In the age where personal accountability is nonexistent, I guess it’s too much to expect people to follow rules and understand there are consequences to every decision.

[Bob Macadoo]

It doesnt take a PhD to look at this guy and see he was pretty unhealthy. ... In hindsight, Im sure the police would have taken it easier on him if they would have known he was in such a fragile state.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Bob Macadoo

[guyser]

The pathologist hired by the family has no idea what he's talking about.

The autopsy says so:

Man in chokehold death had no throat damage: autopsy

This link, the one saying they used a chokehold many times, including the 'forbidden chokehold' shows no chokehold?

Do tell....what does the headline of the link say? I bolded it above...and increased it to make sure it isnt missed.

And what of your other link, the one that sayd "chokehold" ?

Oh yeah....no chokehold.

Wait what?

So did the grand jury:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/eric-garner-grand-jury-declines-indict-nypd-chokehold-death

This link shows a nice photo or Eric in a chokehold.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eric-garner-chokehold-what-is-the-manoeuvre--and-why-is-it-so-racially-charged-9903268.html

Edited December 4, 2014 by Guyser2

[Bryan]

This link shows a nice photo or Eric in a chokehold.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eric-garner-chokehold-what-is-the-manoeuvre--and-why-is-it-so-racially-charged-9903268.html

No it doesn't. If that was a chokehold, Garner would have been unconscious, instead of repeatedly yelling "I can't breathe".

People are using the term chokehold because they don't know what they are talking about. They haven't got the training or experience to understand the difference. People go to sleep, they don't start yelling that they can't breathe. It really is that simple: if someone can keep telling you that they can't breathe, that means that they are NOT being choked.

[guyser]

No it doesn't. If that was a chokehold, Garner would have been unconscious, instead of repeatedly yelling "I can't breathe".

People are using the term chokehold because they don't know what they are talking about. They haven't got the training or experience to understand the difference. People go to sleep, they don't start yelling that they can't breathe. It really is that simple: if someone can keep telling you that they can't breathe, that means that they are NOT being choked.

You are forgetting one very important thing.

That Cop may have sucked at it, he may not have been strong enough to apply it to such a large man.

But everyone....and their brother....and the coroner all say the same thing. Except you.

My 2 yr old neice I could teach the chokehold, but it wouldnt do a damn thing to me would it?

[Bryan]

My 2 yr old neice I could teach the chokehold, but it wouldnt do a damn thing to me would it?

The 2 yr old's arms might not be long enough to get the right grips, but we train 4 yr olds to do it. Once they get the hold sunk in, yes, even a full grown adult is going to sleep within a couple of seconds. My daughter has been able to do it effectively since she was 8. She has choked out people literally twice her size.

But everyone....

Not everyone. Only people who don't know what they are talking about, so they just repeat what they've been told.

[On Guard for Thee]

The 2 yr old's arms might not be long enough to get the right grips, but we train 4 yr olds to do it. Once they get the hold sunk in, yes, even a full grown adult is going to sleep within a couple of seconds. My daughter has been able to do it effectively since she was 8. She has choked out people literally twice her size.

Not everyone. Only people who don't know what they are talking about, so they just repeat what they've been told.

The videos are pretty clear as is the coroners report, it's a chokehold. Whether it was the only cause of death isn't at question, the coroner report spells it out quite clearly. It was a chokehold and that's illegal.

[Bryan]

The videos are pretty clear as is the coroners report, it's a chokehold.

It absolutely was not. Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so. You need to stop spouting off nonsense when you have no idea what you are talking about. The video very clearly shows that Garner was not being choked. At the point of the video where Garner starts repeating "I can't breathe" Officer Pantaleo had already let go of him.

[On Guard for Thee]

It absolutely was not. Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so. You need to stop spouting off nonsense when you have no idea what you are talking about. The video very clearly shows that Garner was not being choked. At the point of the video where Garner starts repeating "I can't breathe" Officer Pantaleo had already let go of him.

You're getting silly now. I'm quoting coroners and medical examiners. Because you say for whatever reason you teach people about chokeholds has not much to do with the issue at hand. I think it's obvious who's spouting off nonsense.

[Smallc]

It's funny how here the evidence matters, but not in ferguson. I guess the evidence has to fit a chosen narrative to be useful.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's funny how here the evidence matters, but not in ferguson. I guess the evidence has to fit a chosen narrative to be useful.

The evidence needs to reflect the truth to be useful.

[Smallc]

I agree. In both places it does. In one case, it's clear who was in the wrong. In another, it obviously wasnt clear enough. That said, in the second case, I would have went with a charge such as reckless endangerment. Obviously the Grand Jury didn't, after considering the evidence, agree (that's not hard to understand since it's not as clear cut as you're trying to make it - the intent just wasn't there).

[On Guard for Thee]

I agree. In both places it does. In one case, it's clear who was in the wrong. In another, it obviously wasnt clear enough. That said, in the second case, I would have went with a charge such as reckless endangerment. Obviously the Grand Jury didn't, after considering the evidence, agree (that's not hard to understand since it's not as clear cut as you're trying to make it - the intent just wasn't there).

The chokehold was quite clear and that's against the law there. The man may have been guilty of pawning cigarettes, did he deserve to die for it? And the next one is going to be the 12 year old who gets killed in the playground for carrying a toy gun. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but these images are not going away!

[Bryan]

You're getting silly now. I'm quoting coroners and medical examiners.

You mean the coroner who ruled that there was no damage to Garner's throat? He died of positional asphyxia -- his chest and neck were compressed when the other police officers were kneeling on him trying to get him to stop resisting and let them put the cuffs on him, AFTER the hold around his head and shoulders had already been released.

Because you say for whatever reason you teach people about chokeholds has not much to do with the issue at hand. I think it's obvious who's spouting off nonsense.

It is obvious. You don't even have a basic understanding of what you're trying to discuss. Do yourself a favour and take the 40 minutes to watch the video I linked to earlier. Unlike the medical examiner and the media, those guys ARE experts on chokeholds.

Did the police have sufficient reason to be arresting Garner? It doesn't look like it. Was their use of force excessive for the situation? It certainly does appear that way. Did the officers on the scene directly contribute to Garner's death? Most likely. Was he killed by a chokehold, though? There is no evidence to support that at all.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't need to spend 40 minutes watching a video to see a chokehold, talk about basic understandings.

[Smallc]

The chokehold was quite clear and that's against the law there. The man may have been guilty of pawning cigarettes, did he deserve to die for it? And the next one is going to be the 12 year old who gets killed in the playground for carrying a toy gun. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but these images are not going away!

I'm not even sure how this is a response to what I wrote. It's much easier if you out faux outrage aside.

[Bryan]

I don't need to spend 40 minutes watching a video to see a chokehold, talk about basic understandings.

You do need it, because you keep saying that you clearly see a chokehold, when that is not what is happening in that video. You don't even know the difference between what is and is not a chokehold. You don't know how a person responds when they are being choked, and you aren't even paying enough attention to see who is holding Garner in what manner at the time that he starts complaining that he can't breathe.

[On Guard for Thee]

It is what's happening in the video as far as I'm concerned and I think anyone with half a brain in their head would see it as well. However, the coroner apparently see's it and has published a report saying so. All this denying nonsense doesn't change any of that.

[sharkman]

Has it been mentioned that this guy had 31 prior arrests? I'd say he got very good at working the system. It's also worth noting that the liberals pushing this racist cops nonsense across the US are deluded. They ignore all of the white deaths, all of the white "harassment" at the hands of non-white cops, etc. But mostly, they ignore all of the black arrests in which no injuries or death occur, and the percentage of deaths is microscopic. Any time one resists the cops, they put themselves in harms way. It's surprising that so few deaths occur.

The jury sat for nine weeks on the case. They heard 50 witnesses of the incident. There were 60 exhibits admitted into evidence. There were apparently only 12 of the 23 grand jurors thought that criminal charges were justified. So is it a conspiracy? Were half of the jurors racist bigots? Is the system broken? In that a guy with 31 priors is on the street, maybe it is.

Edited December 5, 2014 by sharkman

[sharkman]

Of all the things that might happen in this whole affair, there is one thing that you can absolutely guarantee will happen. No doubt about it, just like taxes and death. The NYTimes WILL publish the address of the cop in question. It's only a matter of time.

[On Guard for Thee]

Sharkman now has 23 people on a Grand Jury. Um hmm. Perhaps we can take the rest of his comments with a grain of salt.

[Bryan]

Sharkman now has 23 people on a Grand Jury. Um hmm. Perhaps we can take the rest of his comments with a grain of salt.

We can add that to the list of things you don't understand about this case:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-officer-indicted-eric-garner-choke-hold-death/story?id=27341079

The grand jury was made up of 23 residents of Staten Island and led by a foreperson. A decision required a majority of the jury -- meaning at least 12 people.

[sharkman]

Sharkman now has 23 people on a Grand Jury. Um hmm. Perhaps we can take the rest of his comments with a grain of salt.

Maybe you should do some reading on the case. It's obvious you don't know basic facts of the procedings, and at worst you are arming yourself with nothing but nonsense from leftwing activist sites.